looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

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cold beer
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looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby cold beer » 6 years 9 months ago (Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:00 am)

I lost a bookmark to a testimony of a sonderkommando from one of the Rhinehart camps who I hope someone will recognize and be able to name.
He described the stacking of alternating layers of firewood and corpses in a footprint of something on the order of 4 square meters, with as many as 2000 bodies, which they then cremated.

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby borjastick » 6 years 9 months ago (Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:36 am)

Not sure exactly to what you refer cold beer. Most of the AR camps used some sort of proper cremation equipment. Maybe you are talking of the supposed 'sardine packing' of jews who were then shot dead in situ. There were claims of 'burning pits' used in Auschwitz whereby pits were dug, then filled with wood and corpses. This however doesn't stand up as the water table there is so high, thus giving the lie to such applications.

Can you tell us if you are a real beginner and need a list of required reading or have you a much deeper holocaust knowledge but new to this forum?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby cold beer » 6 years 9 months ago (Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:01 am)

borjastick wrote:Not sure exactly to what you refer cold beer. Most of the AR camps used some sort of proper cremation equipment. Maybe you are talking of the supposed 'sardine packing' of jews who were then shot dead in situ. There were claims of 'burning pits' used in Auschwitz whereby pits were dug, then filled with wood and corpses. This however doesn't stand up as the water table there is so high, thus giving the lie to such applications.

Can you tell us if you are a real beginner and need a list of required reading or have you a much deeper holocaust knowledge but new to this forum?

No I'm not referring to 'sardine packing' of Jews who were shot, what I posted is an accurate paraphrase of what this individual who claims to be a sonderkommando said.

I do consider myself a beginner, I have an interest in specific areas of the discussion, one is the actual testimony of those who claim to have witnessed and/or participated in the mass murder program.
It's interesting to me to compare these testimonies and the contradictions that seem to exist

I'm a relative novice when it comes to most everything else outside of having listened to testimonies and some the well known issues about the gas chambers

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby cold beer » 6 years 9 months ago (Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:12 am)

borjastick wrote:Not sure exactly to what you refer cold beer. Most of the AR camps used some sort of proper cremation equipment. Maybe you are talking of the supposed 'sardine packing' of jews who were then shot dead in situ. There were claims of 'burning pits' used in Auschwitz whereby pits were dug, then filled with wood and corpses. This however doesn't stand up as the water table there is so high, thus giving the lie to such applications.

Can you tell us if you are a real beginner and need a list of required reading or have you a much deeper holocaust knowledge but new to this forum?

So to clarify my answer, my Poland thread is directly related.
In listening to testimonies (in general not just sonderkomandos etc), a good number of the survivors originate from Poland.
It's common for them to mention antisemitism and pogroms, so naturally I begin to question what the history is behind it, because the causes are rarely addressed in their testimonies other than writing it all off to antisemitism

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby EtienneSC » 6 years 9 months ago (Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:30 am)

cold beer wrote:I lost a bookmark to a testimony of a sonderkommando from one of the Rhinehart camps who I hope someone will recognize and be able to name.
He described the stacking of alternating layers of firewood and corpses in a footprint of something on the order of 4 square meters, with as many as 2000 bodies, which they then cremated.

It sounds like Wiernik's Year in Treblinka or Chil Raijman.

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby cold beer » 6 years 9 months ago (Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:44 am)

EtienneSC wrote:
cold beer wrote:I lost a bookmark to a testimony of a sonderkommando from one of the Rhinehart camps who I hope someone will recognize and be able to name.
He described the stacking of alternating layers of firewood and corpses in a footprint of something on the order of 4 square meters, with as many as 2000 bodies, which they then cremated.

It sounds like Wiernik's Year in Treblinka or Chil Raijman.

Thanks, that gives me a starting point.

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby cold beer » 6 years 9 months ago (Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:57 am)

EtienneSC wrote:It sounds like Wiernik's Year in Treblinka or Chil Raijman.

After checking into it, it doesn't appear to be either of those two.
Last edited by cold beer on Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby Hannover » 6 years 9 months ago (Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:07 am)

Perhaps you are thinking of the laughable 'confessions' of Paul Blobel, who was allegedly responsible for making all traces of 'exterminated' Jews magically disappear. There are numerous threads concerning him at this forum.

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby Hegwood » 6 years 9 months ago (Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:43 am)

As far as I know Chil Rajchman and Yankel Wiernik provide the only eyewitness descriptions of the open air cremation process at the Action Rheinhardt Camps. Wiernik's description is far less detailed but does agree with Rajchman that women's bodies were the only fuel needed for cremation. There is no mention of layers of wood. The only mention of wood for fuel is a few dry branches to kindle the women's bodies.

The following quote is from Chil Rajchman's Treblinka Memoirs by Thomas Kues. It was translated from Chil Rajchman's, Ich bin der letzte JudeTreblinka 1942/43. Aufzeichnungen für die Nachwelt, Piper, Munich 2009.

If this happened it was a miracle. Do a little research on Hindu cremation practices and you will quickly learn that it requires at least two pounds of wood for every pound of body weight for open air cremation.

It is commonly held that all corpses at Treblinka were incinerated on primitive pyres equipped with grates made up of railway tracks – the so-called “roasts”. In his memoirs, Rajchman describes the construction of these open air cremation facilities as follows:

“He [the “cremation expert”] had laid out more than thirty meters of railway gauge. Right on top of the ground a pair of concrete foundations were cast, both with a height of approximately 50 centimeters. A pyre was one and a half meter wide. On top of the foundations six railway rails were placed, that was all. ”The Artist” [=the “expert”] ordered us to put women, particularly fat women, on the first layer on the roast, face down. The second layer could consist of whatever was brought – men, women or children – and so on, layer upon layer like a pyramid, up to a height of two meter.

The dead were thrown upon the pyre by a special commando, the Feuerkolonne. Two pyre workers received the corpses brought by the carriers. The first one grabbed hold of the hand and foot on the left side of the body, while the second grabbed hold of the hand and foot on the other side, whereupon they threw the dead person on top of the pyre. Around 2,500 corpses were placed on such a pyre. Then the “expert” ordered us to lay dry branches under the roast and to light them. Within a few minutes the fire would take so it was difficult to approach the crematorium from as far as fifty meters away.” (pp. 114-115)


I would also like to know if there is another eyewitness description of the cremation process at the AR camps because this one is totally ridiculous. Not only is it impossible but neither can it be dismissed as a misunderstanding, mistake in estimating a distance, or simple ignorance. It is simply a lie. If these individuals were involved in the open air cremation there is no way they could have failed to mention the massive amounts of wood required to be stacked under and among the bodies. Carrying wood would have entailed far more work than handling the bodies.

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby cold beer » 6 years 9 months ago (Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:13 pm)

Hegwood wrote:As far as I know Chil Rajchman and Yankel Wiernik provide the only eyewitness descriptions of the open air cremation process at the Action Rheinhardt Camps. Wiernik's description is far less detailed but does agree with Rajchman that women's bodies were the only fuel needed for cremation. There is no mention of layers of wood. The only mention of wood for fuel is a few dry branches to kindle the women's bodies.


I would also like to know if there is another eyewitness description of the cremation process at the AR camps because this one is totally ridiculous. Not only is it impossible but neither can it be dismissed as a misunderstanding, mistake in estimating a distance, or simple ignorance. It is simply a lie. If these individuals were involved in the open air cremation there is no way they could have failed to mention the massive amounts of wood required to be stacked under and among the bodies. Carrying wood would have entailed far more work than handling the bodies.


Thanks for the links and quotes
In the process of looking into their testimonies and scratching them off the list, I ran into a video on YouTube which did a great job of covering open air cremations .
I temporarily lost the link.

On the testimony I'm looking for, I'm beginning to think it was from one of the sonderkommando 1005 unit
Last edited by cold beer on Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby cold beer » 6 years 9 months ago (Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:14 pm)

Hannover wrote:Perhaps you are thinking of the laughable 'confessions' of Paul Blobel, who was allegedly responsible for making all traces of 'exterminated' Jews magically disappear. There are numerous threads concerning him at this forum.

- Hannover

I don't recognize the name, I'm certain it wasn't a confession of a Nazi.
But I will look up his confession, sounds like something worth reading

The other possibility is that it might have been a testimony of one of the Sonderkommando 1005 unit.

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 6 years 9 months ago (Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:47 pm)

Alternating layers of wood and bodies is mentioned in the video "One Third Of The Holocaust" with reference given to the book "Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. The Operation Rheinhard Deathcamps" by Yitzhak Arad. Arad says they did it that way and then gives sources.

It might be Yechiel Reichman. But Yechiel Reichman and Chil Rachman might be same person. Not sure.

Borjastick wrote:
Most of the AR camps used some sort of proper cremation equipment.
That's incorrect. The story is that it was outdoors on elevated rails.

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby Hannover » 6 years 9 months ago (Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:35 pm)

Indeed, "One Third Of The Holocaust" is a must. One of the finest video presentations yet.

I might add that popping aktion 1005 into our search function leads to a plethora of threads which contain bizarre "eyewitness" statements which cold beer and others may wish to review.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby cold beer » 6 years 9 months ago (Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:43 pm)

Excellent, thank you

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Re: looking for a particular sondekommando testimony

Postby cold beer » 6 years 9 months ago (Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:29 am)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:Alternating layers of wood and bodies is mentioned in the video "One Third Of The Holocaust" with reference given to the book "Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. The Operation Rheinhard Deathcamps" by Yitzhak Arad. Arad says they did it that way and then gives sources.

It might be Yechiel Reichman. But Yechiel Reichman and Chil Rachman might be same person. Not sure.

Borjastick wrote:
Most of the AR camps used some sort of proper cremation equipment.
That's incorrect. The story is that it was outdoors on elevated rails.

I have watched this video in the past, which lead me to believe that you had the source.
But I just watched it again and I didn't see it mentioned


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