Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Again!

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Occam's Razor » 6 years 7 months ago (Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:38 am)

Werd, globalfire / National Journal is a German Nationalist website that regularly covers revisionist topics.

The article about Mr. Muehlenkamp is obviously a satire. The message behind it is that the authors behind globalfire believe that Mr. Muehlenkamp and the HC crew who wrote the book against Mattogno, Graf and Kues are doing more harm than good to the holocaust story.

The idea is that people who seriously defend the claim that 28 people can fit in one square meter can do that only to intentionally damage the story.

Thus, Mr. Muehlenkamp and his friends can only be closet Nazis. But that idea is certainly satire.

It's basically the same idea that MGK propose in their answer to "the controversial bloggers", as they call them: That professional historians ignore the HC bloggers, because rather than defending too ridiculous claims of the holocaust story they prefer not to debate them at all.


Andrea Röpke is a hateful professional "antifascist" who makes a living photographing participants of nationalist gatherings and demonstrations, outing them in their neighborhood, and defaming and writing about them in various newspapers who pay her for this "service for democracy".

What surprises me is that even neugierig, who posted this article over at "the other forum" took this article seriously.

Werd, neugierig, you do know what a satire is? And you would recognize one when you see one, right?

Again, for the slightly slower thinkers: None of the claims of the article that Mr. Muehlenkamp is really a Nazi etc. is meant seriously.

And btw., I have nothing to do with the article, I didn't write it and I'm not affiliated with globalfire.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Occam's Razor » 6 years 7 months ago (Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:58 am)

Werd:

Is someone playing a practical joke on Muehlenkamp in the revisionist crowd?

Yes.

The source is given as NJ. But as you can see, NJ is the same thing as globalfire. It IS globalfire.

Yes. National Journal is the "Journal" part of the globalfire website. It's the same.

The date is given 5-10-13. They mention the new 1550 page reply of Mattogno, Graf and Kues. So the article is new. Therefore it must not mean May 10th but rather October 5th. But today is not the 5th. So what is going on with that date? An honest mistake? Anyone want to take a stab at this?

1.) That's how dates are written in German: day / month / year, in that order.

2.) on top of that, a typo. A mistake. Or they can travel through time. Don't know.

Werd, you're wasting too much time with this. It was only a joke. And not even the funniest satire ever written. Though, simple-minded as I am, I laughed a little bit when I read it.

The joke was probably triggered through the release of MKG's answer to the HC bloggers. That's all.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Werd » 6 years 7 months ago (Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:02 pm)

I will admit it took me a minute or two to realize it because I soon realized what the website actually was. Globalfire.

Edit 2:
"This article first published: 05/10/2013 - source: NJ-authors"

The source is given as NJ. But as you can see, NJ is the same thing as globalfire. It IS globalfire.
http://globalfire.tv/


But I bet I spotted the satire quicker than blogbuster and the guys at hateblogwatch. I wonder how they will respond to finding out even a revisionist (me) took a couple minutes to figure out it was a hoax while they still don't get it. Meh, I could care less.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Werd » 6 years 7 months ago (Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:08 am)

Strafford said...

I've red "Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka" with great interest, and I thought it was superb.......BUT I've red about 200 pages of MGK response and it's devastating (on HC bloggers use of the sources, at least)....hope for a proper refutation!
Wednesday, October 02, 2013 11:07:00 am


http://www.holocaustcontroversies.blogs ... .html#more


Sounds like a few of the exterminationists are actually impressed at MGK proving the manipulation of primary documents. Especially with regards to context shifting, I bet.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Cloud » 6 years 7 months ago (Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:10 pm)

As to the contents of this book, the casual reader may be warned: This work cannot be read like a novel. It is a point-by-point response to the above-mentioned Holocaust Controversies bloggers' PDF file (accessible on their website) and can be understood only in that context. It also requires that the reader be familiar with the authors' three monographs on the Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka camps, all of which can be accessed and downloaded on this website.


So has anyone here actually read the exterminationists' "white paper" as well as the latter three books? I've only read two of these four prerequisites, and (sadly) don't have the time to finish all four, nor read a 1,500+ page tome. But if any you have done this, you ought to be congratulated.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Werd » 6 years 7 months ago (Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:29 pm)

I am halfway through the tome already. As for the HC crowd, they have been caught censoring comments on Roberto's blog.
http://hateblogwatch.nazihunter.net/for ... ?f=3&t=287

Roberto must be really butt hurt over that. I figured he would just post a link to his own blog where he rants against Lisciotto and 'refutes' the allegations against him in an article or two. No, he just deletes it. I am not surprised because one of the links included was this one which gives the full unadulterated story of the criminal activity of the HC crowd.
http://deathcamps.org/editorial/2013%20Part%202.html

That doesn't work but this is the one does.
http://hateblogwatch.nazihunter.net/The ... 0HEART.htm

Comment posted on Roberto's blog.
Jonathan Harrison said...

Gilles, many thanks. MGK partly take this position because they never really engaged with secondary literature before 2011, so they don't see how research relates to work done by previous scholars.

MGK have a fallacy that a man walks into an archive having done no previous reading, and he builds his hypothesis only from the primary documents he sees. He must never have any faith in the translation done by a previous scholar.

Furthermore, there are times when MGK contradict this by using other people's translations, such as Donat's translation for Wiernik. They clearly did not translate every witness statement they have ever cited from the original language text, such as Yiddish. The fetish for the original language cannot always be satisfied because of access and availability of the originals.
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 11:29:00 am

Somebody is surely pissed off that Mattogno, Graf and Kues have shown many examples about how quotes allegedly showing an intent to exterminate all Jews were LIFTED OUT OF CONTEXT from documents. I guess it just irritates these boys how entire paragraphs were quoted in PROPER GERMAN by Mattogno in the PDF file and were followed by an English translation. How could they make this mistake you may ask? Because Mattogno was right in that they largely copied and pasted claims from other books and just copied their footnotes without checking for the documents themselves. If they had, they would not have made these grave mistakes. So the HC crew's retorts to Mattogno's arguments fall flat on their faces.

No one is denying for example that footnotes are an acceptable way to tell your reader about further reading material that would back up your case. But at least have the decency to put things in your footnotes that you have already fucking read yourself and not just copy footnotes from someone else whose work you clearly plagarize. If the HC crew had done just that, they would not have been caught with their pants down putting out quotes that allegedly prove an intent to exterminate, that WHEN READ IN FULL from the actual documents that mattogo HAD THE DECENCY TO TRACK DOWN AND REPRODUCE IN GERMAN IN HIS BOOK, prove just the opposite.

Whine all you want, guys. It won't change a thing. Your scholarship has stooped to the level of Alan Dershowitz, the key plagarist of Joan Peters long ago debunked book on palestine. Pathetic. Not even serious Zionists stand by Peters' work anymore. They wish to forget it. Only idiotic Zionist Christians who disregard the new testament basically still push her crap around.

The holocaust exterminationists are right. The HC arguments are lousy and embarrassing.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Werd » 6 years 7 months ago (Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:17 am)

http://deathcamps.org/editorial2013%20Part%202.html
ARC Editorial



October 2013



Dear Readers,



It is always nice not to be regarded as common fools, and for this we must thank Carlo Mattogno, the Holocaust Denier for recognising it, in his latest work.

We obviously do not agree that we are intellectually dishonest as he and other revisionists portray. It's simply that we believe in the Holocaust narrative as generally accepted by the mainstream historical community, and given that we maintain multiple Holocaust Memorial websites; we also understand we are uncomfortable to him and those like him.

So, we want people to be clear, debating the Holocaust is not for us, we let our work speak for itself. We don’t deny anyone the opportunity to debate, if they so wish. We just have better things to do with our time. The Holocaust isn’t a game, scoring points, playing to a gallery. We don’t participate, not out of fear, as Mattogno claims, but rather out of respect for historical facts. There is enough evidence to support the Holocaust, in all its forms, photographic, documentation and testimonies under oath.

There is no controversy - the Holocaust unfortunately happened, and we are proud, that we portray it honestly and with respect for the terrible events that took place between 1933-1945.

Carlo Mattogno is partly correct as to why we hold Holocaust Controversies members in such contempt. That they use foul and abusive language does show their lack of personal development and discipline, we agree with Mattogno there. But he is way off the mark as the comments below will show:

That Nick Terry, Sergey Romanov, Roberto Muehlenkamp and Mike Peters were all expelled from ARC seven years ago, is a proven fact. That our demise, which is a tad premature, as we clearly haven't gone anywhere, yet is still proclaimed on their blog as a HOT TOPIC! This show us clearly nothing much has been happening in the HC world for the past seven years, and we find that quite amusing.

The Holocaust Controversies bloggers were expelled for a number of reasons, we had some suspicions they had produced a number of high quality fakes and forgeries, and other than this, they had contributed little or nothing, to the website. These forgeries were later uncovered and their origins confirmed by technology experts and the suspects were confronted with their actions.

We are content that the odious HC gang were run out of town in October 2006, with their tails between their legs. But they are an odd collection of misfits. They quote from our Holocaust Memorial websites one minute, then attack and slander us the next. They seem odd and confused, not knowing whether they are Holocaust believers or champions of Holocaust Denial.

That we were able to restore the ARC website, once it had been vandalized, was pleasing, that it had to be archived was a shame, but at least it is still available. So Carlo Mattogno you are wrong, we don’t despise them for what they did, we pity them.

ARC Trustees

Now that I think of it, Graf in the introduction did not mention anywhere that the HC group was caught planting forgeries on the ARC website only so they could later claim to have discovered it themselves so they could discredit Webb and have others vote him out in order to let the HC crowd take over. Mattogno at least gives a small passing mention to this HC trickery from 2006 on page 52 of the pdf.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby borjastick » 6 years 7 months ago (Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:37 pm)

The ARC editorial is well written and confident, though some would say arrogant. There can be no surprise that they are unable to see things differently with the passage of time and application of logic, common sense and in large part scientific evidence.

But then when you look at their cornerstones which they cling to it becomes very obvious how they seem to be stuck in a mood of denial; it is not us who deny the holocaust truth but them.

There is enough evidence to support the Holocaust, in all its forms, photographic, documentation and testimonies under oath.


Really? The documents were forged and generated by both the US and Russia. The photos in many case are faked and inconclusive and that's being generous and I am still waiting to see any evidential photographic support whatsoever for the use of gas chambers for mass murder. Try the Auschwitz Albums for size to see how they spin innocent photos into what they say is proof of mass murder at the camp. A column of innocent new arrivals walking along doing nothing is captioned along the lines of 'jews walking to the gas chambers'. No proof offered whatsoever.

No, the reason the trustees of ARC don't debate is because they cannot win. End of.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Werd » 6 years 7 months ago (Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:25 pm)

http://hateblogwatch.nazihunter.net/for ... ?f=4&t=292

hateblogwatch
Post subject: Invitation to Mattogno-Kues-Graf to debate H-C live!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:01 pm

Hate Blog Watch members and guests;

The Hate Blog Watch administrative team would like to present the following offer to Revisionists Mattogno, Kues, and Graf as well as the HC group; (Nick Terry, Sergey Romanov, Roberto Muehlenkamp and Jonathan Harrison) the opportunity to debate the HC Action Reinhard Camps manifesto and MGK's response to it.

Some of the items that could be covered:

#Select chapters from both documents
#Sourcing of information
#The topic of why HC is discredited by Holocaust historians
#Action Reinhard fact or fiction

We will provide a free international conference bridge with local toll-free access numbers for up to 50 participants and guests.

We will provide web based conferencing, sharing and presentation capabilities for participants to exhibit material.

For more information about this debate offer, please contact us at:

[email protected]

We hope that members from both HC and the MGK team will accept this special opportunity.

I guess the hate blog watch group, despite recommending believers to read this new 1500 page tome from the revisionists (Mattogno, Graf and Kues) overlooked or forgot what was said by the revisionists. They didn't get the message.

MGK made a large book because they preferred the "steamroller method" whereby they would crush every single stupid argument and expose every plagarism and every deliberate mistranslation of German documents. MGK said they consider this to be the final word on the subject and will not waste anymore time with the scoundrels at holocaust controversies. I am already reading part two of this 1500 page tome and anyone else who reads it will see how rigid their counter arguments are. The book stands on its own. MGK have "gone back to the drawing board" and don't need to rehash arguments that are already made in this large book. They have said they will not be repeating themselves and hopefully can get back to finishing their other projects they had in mind before the relase of the cut and paste manifesto.

If the hateblogwatch crowd are actually fans of some of the things in the MGK book in terms of exposing HC's association with criminals, the attack on HEART, or their plagarizing of other authors footnotes to documents in archives they have never seen themselves...documents which Mattogno gave in full German and showed how the authors the HC kooks were plagarizing THEMSELVES had bad German translations to bolster their case, then they should issue another challenge. Pick their favourite parts from the MGK book and grill the HC guys on it. Hateblogwatch on one side and HC on the other. But that will not happen because the HC crowd has refused to accept the HEART challenge to answer for their crimes and this challenge is going on three years old. So what has hateblogwatch done? Resigned to the fact that HC will never accept that challenge and instead of being on one side of an argument, wish to get the HC crowd into another challenge, this time with revisionists so the hateblogwatch crew can be moderators.

In other words, the hateblogwatchteam and the HEART group, who have already said they refuse to debate the holocaust, want to also debate the holocaust now.

Some of the items that could be covered:
____________________________________________

#Action Reinhard fact or fiction

Actually, no. They will refuse to debate the holocaust with anyone. They just want to see HC and MGK battle it out while they moderate. I would hope that MGK do not take this bait. Their new book is solid and I wish the best for them in terms of getting back to the projects they originally wanted to start. namely a forthcoming one on the einsatzgruppen. The revisionists have fought their own battle against the HC crowd and as the new book shows they have clearly won. The battle is over. They don't need to pick fights for the hateblogwatch group.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Werd » 6 years 7 months ago (Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:16 pm)

Response.
http://hateblogwatch.nazihunter.net/for ... ?f=3&t=295

Dearest Werd,

I have read your recent post on the CODOH forum and would like the opportunity to respond on behalf of the membership of the Hate Blog Watch forum, and I hope members here are fine in my doing so.

Some of your comments are in fact correct. The HC gang have refused the teleconference challenge we have made here on this forum for well over three years.

Where you post goes off track is in the following manner;

HBW isn't the H.E.A.R.T or ARC groups. Our members are comprised of both Holocaust believers and deniers. We do have a Holocaust debate section of our forum and some members do debate the Holocaust in that forum.

Furthermore, our offer of moderating a debate over the HC Cut & Paste Manifesto vs the MGK Rebuttal paper on Action Reinhard, was intended to get both sides out in public to openly discuss their views.
*NOTE: This was not simply to see the two sides battle it out, but for all people to see the two sides battle it out, isn't that the point of the two differing publications?

Moderation of the event could be done by agreed upon third parties, these wouldn't have to be anyone from HBW. We would simply facilitate the event and venue. We will also pick up the costs for doing so.

We believe this is a cordial offer, and not one intended to offend either side of the argument, although its public knowledge that MGK used posts and publications from HBW to make some of their points, and those we clearly agree with, the entire debate need not focus on that aspect of the two papers and could be much broader.

The topic suggestions were just that, suggestions. They could be broadened out to encompass much more or much less, the participants could make that determination.

I hope you will consider a fair representation of these view points on the CODOH post you made. Keep in mind there are members from both side of this debate, that are part of HBW.

All parties should be respected.

Thank you Sir,

I had just assumed that there were HEART people associated with hateblogwatch, and therefore the offer for a debate on the aktion reinhardt camps being centers of extermination or not was a flip flop from the previous HEART statement that they REFUSE to debate the holocaust. That was my error.

Furthermore, I do suppose a debate would be a nice crash course for people who haven't yet spent the time or even lack the willingness to plow through the huge MGK tome, but I am not one of those people. I am reading a decent amount every day and am loving it. Given what MGK have said I really don't see them taking on this debate offer. But then I am nobody to decide for them. I am just saying that the hateblogwatch group should not get their hopes up.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Webmaster » 6 years 6 months ago (Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:49 pm)

The book is now available at the CHP & CODOH Bookstore:
https://shop.codoh.com/book/329?pid=329

It can also be bought from Amazon UK:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Extermination-C ... 1591480353
Webmaster

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Inquisitor » 6 years 6 months ago (Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:28 pm)

Webmaster wrote:The book is now available at the CHP & CODOH Bookstore:
https://shop.codoh.com/book/329?pid=329

It can also be bought from Amazon UK:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Extermination-C ... 1591480353
Webmaster


Is the hard-copy to be released in the US also? Especially since one cannot purchase this with a credit card, I sincerely hope a US release is pending? :?:

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Webmaster » 6 years 6 months ago (Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:19 am)

Inquisitor,
I am told that it will be released in the US. The book is apparently already set up, but not yet switched free, as they haven't assigned an item no. yet. So right now it is a waiting game, and then it will be available. :D
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Inquisitor wrote:Is the hard-copy to be released in the US also? Especially since one cannot purchase this with a credit card, I sincerely hope a US release is pending? :?:

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Inquisitor » 6 years 6 months ago (Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:34 am)

^ Thank you for the update!!

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt Camps / Holo. Controversies Debunked Ag

Postby Webmaster » 6 years 6 months ago (Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:17 am)

You're welcome. It is available at The Barnes Review now:
http://www.barnesreview.org/the-%C3%A2% ... l?cPath=82
Amazon USA (that's TBR via Amazon)

The URL may look deformed which must correspond to the fact that the software TBR is using cannot process “ and ” which are special characters in HTML.
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Inquisitor wrote:^ Thank you for the update!!


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