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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby Nap » 5 years 2 months ago (Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:54 pm)

You have quoted Göring and Priebke.
I want to add:

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: [...] Are you telling the Tribunal that you, who up to 1943 were the second man in the Reich, knew nothing about concentration camps?

Goering: [...] I did not know anything about what took place and what methods were used in the concentration camps later, when I was no longer in charge.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Let me remind you of the evidence that has been given before this Court, that as far as Auschwitz alone is concerned, 4,000,000 people were exterminated. Do you remember that?

Goering: This I have heard as a statement here, but I consider it in no way proved -- that figure, I mean.

IMT, vol. 9, pag. 611: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/03-21-46.asp#Goering8


and

Q: When did you first hear of a plan to exterminate Jews in gas chambers?

A: I was a prisoner in an English camp along with Walter Rauff when I first heard of such a thing. We were both amazed. We could not believe such a terrible story: homicidal gas chambers to murder men, women and children!
I discussed the matter with Col. Rauff and other prisoners for days on end.
We all belonged to the SS and were all Party members, serving in various capacities but nobody had ever heard of such a thing. Just imagine: Many years later I learned that Rauff, who shared many a hard loaf with me in prison, had been accused of inventing mysterious "mobile gas vans." No one who knew Walter Rauff could have come up with such an idea.

Priebke, last interview in late july 2013: http://pauleisen.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10 ... -late.html
The original here: http://olodogma.com/wordpress/wp-conten ... -100-D.pdf pages 3-4.



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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby Hektor » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:49 pm)

Hermod, do you have any other - more stable - sources then that blogspot-blog?!

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:27 pm)

Hektor wrote:Hermod, do you have any other - more stable - sources then that blogspot-blog?!


Sources for what exactly? I've posted several things in this topic.

The Black Rabbit of Inle's blogspot is an excellent source anyway. And he always references his findings.

Am I supposed to post bullshits from the United States Holocaust Museum Memorial's website? Sorry I can't. I don't buy into the propagandistic distortions from that "respected source". Too obviously a fraud for me...
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 5 years 1 month ago (Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:32 pm)

The Nazi leaders were deeply impressed by the Allied Psy Op movie on [the typhus epidemics in] the last German concentration camps and by the 'confessions' extracted from Hoess and a few others. But most of them in fact denied any knowledge of the Holohoax prior to the Nuremberg mock trials...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHWLxN-gwrs

The Nazis never denied the 'Holocaust'...was known to them from the Allied psychological warfare divisions and media. :wink:

At Nuremberg, when Goering stated he knew nothing about the 'Holocaust', a prosecutor even asked him if he hadn't had "access to the foreign press" and "to foreign broadcasts" during the war, as if wartime enemy atrocity propaganda (http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blog ... 7a4a556efc) was a reliable source of information. Priceless. :lol:

Goering: This I have heard as a statement here, but I consider it in no way proved -- that figure, I mean.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: If you do not consider it proved, let me remind you of the affidavit of Hoettl (Wilhelm Höttl and the Elusive 'Six Million': http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v20/v20n5p25_Weber.html), who was Deputy Group Leader of the Foreign Section, of the Security Section of Amt IV of the RSHA. He says that approximately 4,000,000 Jews have been killed in the concentration camps, while an additional 2,000,000 met death in other ways. Assume that these figures -- one is a Russian figure, the other a German -- assume they are even 50 percent correct, assume it was 2,000,000 and 1,000,000, are you telling this Tribunal that a Minister with your power in the Reich could remain ignorant that that was going on?

Goering: This I maintain, and the reason for this is that these things were kept secret from me. I might add that in my opinion not even the Fuehrer knew the extent of what was going on. This is also explained by the fact that Himmler kept all these matters very secret. We were never given figures or any other details.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: But, Witness, haven't you access to the foreign press, the press department in your ministry, to foreign broadcasts? You see, there is evidence that altogether, when you take the Jews and other people, something like 10,000,000 people have been done to death in cold blood, apart from those killed in battle. Something like 10,000,000 people. Do you say that you never saw or heard from the foreign press, in broadcasts, that this was going on?

Goering: First of all, the figure 10,000,000 is not established in any way. Secondly, throughout the war I did not read the foreign press, because I considered it nothing but propaganda. Thirdly, though I had the right to listen to foreign broadcasts, I never did so, simply because I did not want to listen to propaganda. Neither did I listen to home propaganda. Only during the last 4 days of the war did I -- and this I could prove -- listen to a foreign broadcasting station for the first time.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/03-21-46.asp#Goering8
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 5 years 1 month ago (Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:28 am)

If knowing nothing of the 'Holocaust' prior to the Nuremberg farce is denial, we can add Hitler's body guard SS Staff Sgt. Rochus Misch, Hitler's secretary Traudl Junge and Goebbels' secretary Brunhilde Pomsel to the list.

Hitler's bodyguard who said he knew nothing of Holocaust dies

September 6, 2013

BERLIN (AP) — He was Adolf Hitler's devoted bodyguard for most of World War II and the last remaining witness to the Nazi leader's final hours in his Berlin bunker. To the very end, SS Staff Sgt. Rochus Misch was proud of it all.

For years, he accompanied Hitler nearly everywhere he went, sticking by the man he affectionately called "boss" until the dictator and his wife, Eva Braun, killed themselves as defeat at the hands of the Allies drew nearer.

[...]

In his interview with the AP, he stayed away from the central questions of guilt and responsibility, saying he knew nothing of the murder of 6 million Jews and that Hitler never brought up the Final Solution in his presence."

That was never a topic," he said emphatically. "Never."

[...]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... d/2775459/



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA2JTXx1xBQ

'He got away lightly with suicide': Goebbels' secretary, 100, breaks vow of silence to reveal secrets of Hitler's propaganda minister

29 August 2011

The former secretary of Hitler's propaganda chief Joseph Goebbels has broken a 66-year vow of silence

[...]

Since the end of World War II, Brunhilde Pomsel, now 100, has refused all requests for interviews and offers to publish her memoirs.

But after five months of negotiations she has given a single interview to Bild, Germany's biggest newspaper, in which she describes her four years as the chief secretary of the man closest to Hitler.

[...]

She took down every word that Goebbels uttered, both his private correspondence and his official orders, including those ordering round-ups of Jews in Berlin to please Hitler that the capital was becoming 'Jew-free'.

[...]

'I was working as a typist at the propaganda ministry, and his radio station, and was the fastest. It was an order to be transferred to work for him. You couldn't refuse.

'I didn't know about the Holocaust. I was a stupid, politically uninterested little sausage of simple means. I only learned about the Jewish extermination programme after the war. Goebbels never mentioned it in his correspondence.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z2nzur0HQw
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby Zulu » 5 years 1 month ago (Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:36 am)

hermod wrote:The Nazi leaders were deeply impressed by the Allied Psy Op movie on [the typhus epidemics in] the last German concentration camps and by the 'confessions' extracted from Hoess and a few others. But most of them in fact denied any knowledge of the Holohoax prior to the Nuremberg mock trials...

The Nazis never denied the 'Holocaust'...was known to them from the Allied psychological warfare divisions and media. :wink:

At Nuremberg, when Goering stated he knew nothing about the 'Holocaust', a prosecutor even asked him if he hadn't had "access to the foreign press" and "to foreign broadcasts" during the war, as if wartime enemy atrocity propaganda (http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blog ... 7a4a556efc) was a reliable source of information. Priceless. :lol:

We can imagine a Nuremberg like trial in Iraq accusing high ranked officers and administrators immediately after the last war and these questions by the prosecution:
"Didn't you have access to Fox news or other occidental medias for learning about the WMDs Saddam Hussein was hiding?"
"Haven't you seen on Youtube the declaration of Powell at the UN Security Council and the proofs he exhibited?"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV5Ggfn9PYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYBA9JD5oW4

Where have we seen similar critical analysis in the medias about the Allied Psy Op on German concentration camps or other alleged "evidences" showed by Russians at Nuremberg?

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 5 years 1 month ago (Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:47 am)

Zulu wrote:We can imagine a Nuremberg like trial in Iraq accusing high ranked officers and administrators immediately after the last war and these questions by the prosecution:
"Didn't you have access to Fox news or other occidental medias for learning about the WMDs Saddam Hussein was hiding?"
"Haven't you seen on Youtube the declaration of Powell at the UN Security Council and the proofs he exhibited?"


"And what about that Kuwaiti nurse testifying in front of cameras about your atrocities on babies in incubators? Her tears mean nothing to you? Aren't you ashamed to insult the memory of those innocent babies? How can you say she's the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador in America lying for our war propaganda? We are a democracy. We don't produce propaganda but unbiased information, evil denier.". :P


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV5Ggfn9PYM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYBA9JD5oW4

Where have we seen similar critical analysis in the medias about the Allied Psy Op on German concentration camps or other alleged "evidences" showed by Russians at Nuremberg?


:?: :?: :?:
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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 5 years 1 month ago (Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:07 am)

Image

Generalfeldmarschall Erich von Manstein (one of Germany's best military strategists and field commanders, one of the most prominent commanders of the Wehrmacht during WW2) denying "the Holocaust by bullets":

"I have been a soldier for forty years. I come from a family of soldiers and I have grown up with military conceptions. The example from amongst my nearest relatives which I had before me was the old Hindenburg. We young officers naturally considered the glory of war as something great, and I do not wish to deny that I was proud that during the war an army was entrusted to me. But our ideal, and that applies to my comrades too, did not lie in the conducting of war but in the education of our youth to be honourable citizens and decent soldiers. Under our orders that youth of ours went to death by the million. And if I may say something personal: my eldest son died as a lieutenant in the infantry, when he was 19; two of my sons-in-law, who grew up in my house, died as young officers; my best comrades in this war, my young adjutant and my young chauffeur, were killed. Nearly all the sons of my brothers and sisters were killed. That we, the old soldiers, should have led into war for a criminal purpose that youth of ours which was so dear to us, would far exceed any wickedness of which man could be thought capable. It is possible that a man without a family and without tradition, who is obsessed with fanatical belief in a higher mission, may go beyond the limits of human law, but we, the old soldiers, purely from a human point of view, would not have been able to do so. We could not lead our youth into crime." (http://www.cwporter.com/anatliar.htm)

How Manstein is now portrayed by the 'Holocaust' industry:

As well as his genius as an operational level commander, however there was also a dark side to Manstein that proved far from unique amongst the Wehrmacht's highest ranks during the Second World War. Manstein, as shown in Benoit Lemay's Erich von Manstein, Hitler's Master Strategist, was deeply implicated in the Holocaust just as were the overwhelming majority of his peers in the Wehrmacht's officer corps. In spite of this reality, following the War Manstein and many of his former comrades denied the important role they had played in the genocidal slaughter of, in particular, Jews and Slavs across Eastern Europe. In this sense, Manstein stood as a symbol of everything that explained the German Wehrmacht's incredible tactical and operational level military prowess during the War, and its moral depravity.

http://www.globeatwar.com/review/erich-von-manstein


In the quote above Manstein didn't deny "the important role" he had allegedly played " in the genocidal slaughter of [...] Jews [...] across Eastern Europe". He denied the alleged slaughter itself...
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 1 month ago (Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:26 pm)

Santiago Alvarez writes about a few denials of gas vans at the IMT:

Hans Laternser, defense lawyer of the Generals on trial, deliberated in his final plea (vol. 21, p. 402):
“In the autumn of 1943, 195,000 persons are alleged to have been killed in mass executions and in gas vans in Kiev. For counter-evidence I refer to Affidavits 1116-a,* 1116-b, and 1116-c, which show that the Wehrmacht never possessed any gas vans.”

Has anyone ever heard about these affidavits? So far I have been unable to locate them. Since they are exonerating, they are probably considered irrelevant by orthodox historiography.

The same is true for 60 more such documents referred to by Hans Gawlik, defense lawyer of SS and SD defendants (vol. 22, p. 24):
“The Prosecution have also submitted Document Number 501-PS on the use of gas vans. I must point out that Amt III never issued instructions on the use of gas vans, as testified by the witness Dr Ehlich [vol. 42, p. 106]. Document 501-PS submitted by the Prosecution shows by its reference Number II that the matter of gas vans was dealt with in Amt II of the RSHA. The SS-Obersturmbannfuhrer Rauff mentioned in the document was not a member of Amter III and VI, but a group chief in Amt II of the RSHA. He was at that time in charge of motor transport. I refer in this connection to the testimony of the witnesses Ohlendorf and Hoeppner (Session of 3 January 1946) and to 60 affidavits from the entire Reich and the occupied territories for the period from 1941 to 1945, according to which the SD had nothing to do with the use of gas vans.”

The Gas Vans: A Critical Investigation, by Santiago Alvarez with major contributions by Pierre Marais, p.139
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/26-tgv.pdf


* I've learnt from the Hans Laternser's closing address that document 1116-a is an affidavit by Colonel general Georg Heinrich Lindemann.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Lindemann

In the Northern sector of the Eastern Front, according to the transcript of 13 February 1946, prisoners are said to have been driven before the attacking German troops who used them as shields (Volume VII, Page 348). This is clearly refuted by the testimony of the former commander-in-chief of the 18th Army, Generaloberst Lindemann, Affidavit 1116-a.

(Vo. 21, p.396)
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/08-21-46.asp
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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 1 month ago (Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:54 pm)

Another from Santiago Alvarez, from chapter "3.7. Gas Vans during West-German Trials"

3.7.3.1. LG Karlsruhe, Verdict of 20 Dec. 1961 & 13 Dec. 1963

During this trial eight defendants, only three of which were sentenced, [97] were accused for various (mass) homicides during their service for various German authorities in the eastern theater of war. Two of the defendants were successful with their appeals. [...] Most of the homicides dealt with during this trial concern shootings, which do not interest us in this context. [98]

[97] Hans Schumacher & Reinhold Brünnert each to 4 years; the retrial against Erich Ehrlinger was first postponed but later shelved due to the defendant’s permanent unfitness for trial (appeal verdict, p. 629); see next footnote.

[98] Interestingly, the main defendant Erich Ehrlinger, head of Einsatzkommando 1b in summer 1941, “persistently” denied having ordered or participated in wanton mass murder, though the court did not believe him, pp. 85f., 106. Initially sentenced to twelve years, a retrial never took place due to him allegedly being permanently unfit for trial. Ehrlinger died in 2004 at the age of 95. So much for his unfitness; cf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Ehrlinger.

The Gas Vans: A Critical Investigation, by Santiago Alvarez with major contributions by Pierre Marais, p.184
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/26-tgv.pdf
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 1 month ago (Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:06 pm)

hermod wrote:In the quote above Manstein didn't deny "the important role" he had allegedly played " in the genocidal slaughter of [...] Jews [...] across Eastern Europe". He denied the alleged slaughter itself...


Santiago Alvarez quotes from the Manstien trial judgment:

As to the defendant’s attitude the verdict elaborates (p. 294):

“[…] the defendant denied strongly to have participated in any gas van operations. He stated that he has never seen a gas van in his life and that he had not even heard of the existence of such vehicles at that time; […].”

The Gas Vans: A Critical Investigation, by Santiago Alvarez with major contributions by Pierre Marais, p.235
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/26-tgv.pdf
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 5 years 1 month ago (Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:13 pm)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:Then of course there's Kramer's old colleague Dr. Mengele:



"When the subject was raised by Rolf, his father ''exploded.'' Mengele turned on his son and said, ''How can you imagine that I could do such things - it's a lie, propaganda!'' Unrepentant, Mengele claimed that as a doctor he had actually ''helped'' to save many lives in the death camp."

- New York Times: October 14, 1985
http://www.nytimes.com/1985/10/14/movies/search-for-mengele-documents-nazi-s-life.html


"I don’t have anything to hide. Terrible things happened at Auschwitz, and I did my best to help. One could not do everything. There were terrible disasters there. I could only save so many. I never killed anyone or hurt anyone. I can prove I am innocent of what they could say against me. I am building the facts for my defense. I want to turn myself in and be cleared at a trial."

- Dr. Mengele
http://tinyurl.com/ptye3e2




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9hFBLQphOg


Mengele was never captured, so never had to stand trial and face judges for whom the existence of the gas chambers was "a dogma not subject to dispute," to borrow a phrase from C. Mattogno.


Not totally true. Mengele was in fact captured by Americans in the very end of WW2, kept for a while (2 months) and then released, even if he used his real name during his detention. Something totally unbelievable if Mengele had really been "the Angel of Death" of Auschwitz as depicted in the postwar 'Holocaust' tales. The Western concentration camps (Dachau, Belsen, etc.) had already been captured by Allied troops and numerous Jewish 'survivors' formerly kept at Auschwitz-Birkenau had told their stories to the Allies when Mengele was jailed. Had Mengele really selected hundreds of thousands of Jews for the gas chambers and performed horrific medical experiments on many others as we are now told, there was no way any U.S. officer in charge of German POWs could have ignored his name at that time. But that's what happened and Mengele was released. Mengele's name was on a list of 60,000 (!) so-called "war criminals" in the CROWCASS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Re ... y_Suspects) when he was captured, but his name patently meant nothing special to the U.S. officers who kept him as a POW. This speaks volumes. Today's 'Holocaust' storytellers conveniently attribute the release of Mengele to "Allied administrative failure". At no time they seem to understand Mengele was released simply because most of the myths about him were invented later.

[Instead, in January 1945, as the Soviet Army advanced through western Poland, Mengele fled Auschwitz. He spent the next few weeks at the Gross-Rosen concentration camp, until its evacuation, and then made his way west, to evade capture by Soviet forces.

In the immediate postwar, Mengele found himself in US custody. Unaware that Mengele's name already stood on a list of wanted war criminals, however, US officials quickly released him. From the summer of 1945 until spring 1949, the physician, under false papers, worked as a farmhand near Rosenheim, Bavaria. At that time, his prosperous family aided his emigration to South America. Mengele settled in Argentina.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php ... d=10007060


Mengele departed Auschwitz on the evening of January 17, 1945, with a ten-day head start on the advancing Russian Amy. Thus began a flight that successfully eluded his pursuers six years beyond his death. Mengele's first destination was Gross Rosen Concentration Camp. On February 16 he fled again, this time into the no-man's land between the Russian and Allied Armies. He was captured in a sweep by American troops and detained for two months, but was then released. Part of the time during his detention, as often during the rest of his life, Mengele used his correct name. Nonetheless, his captors did not recognize him, even though his name had been placed on lists of wanted war criminals, including the list published by the U.S. Judge Advocates General and the First Central Registry of War Criminals and Security Suspects. The oversight has been attributed to Allied administrative failure.

http://www.enotes.com/mengele-josef-ref ... gele-josef
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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 1 month ago (Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:10 am)

You were right to point out that Mengele was arrested and in U.S. custody immediately after the war hermod. But the War Crimes Units probably were looking for him as early as 1945.

This is a page from a November 1945 United Nations War Crimes Commission file, which is essentially a list of people who worked at Birkenau and are mentioned in survivor affidavits as having committed ghastly crimes:
Image

This is some of his appearances in six separate affidavits taken at Belsen in mid-1945—I compiled this in about 4 minutes just looking through the first two-dozen pages of a 378-paged-file of affidavits. I've seen his name in literally dozens upon dozens of them.

Image
enlarged version
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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 5 years 1 month ago (Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:36 am)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:You were right to point out that Mengele was arrested and in U.S. custody immediately after the war hermod. But the War Crimes Units probably were looking for him as early as 1945.

This is a page from a November 1945 United Nations War Crimes Commission file, which is essentially a list of people who worked at Birkenau and are mentioned in survivor affidavits as having committed ghastly crimes:
Image


November was too late. Mengele was out in summer 1945.

What I find amazing is Mengele used his real name while in U.S. custody. Had you been the terrible Angel of Death of Auschwitz - as terrible as the one described in most postwar 'Holocaust' tales - would you have given your real name to the Allies who had clearly promised during WW2 that they were going to punish the "Nazi crimes" very severely? That would have been suicide. Nothing forced Mengele to give his real name. He had no SS tattoo if memory serves me right. Giving his real name sounds like what a man who thought he had nothing to fear from the well-known Jew-loving Allies would have done.


This is some of his appearances in six separate affidavits taken at Belsen in mid-1945—I compiled this in about 4 minutes just looking through the first two-dozen pages of a 378-paged-file of affidavits. I've seen his name in literally dozens upon dozens of them.

Image
enlarged version


Mengele, third and fourth name on lists given by former Auschwitz prisoners. Waw. That looks incredible after decades of horror tales on the Angel of Death.

Whatever. Here are more information about the capture and release of Mengele.

Mengele Was Twice in U.S. Custody, U.S. Justice Dept. Report Confirms

October 9, 1992

Josef Mengele, the notorious Nazi death camp doctor, was in U.S. custody twice in 1945 but was mistakenly released, the U.S. Justice Department has confirmed.

In a long-awaited report released Thursday, the department said Mengele, who died in 1979, was held in two prisoner-of-war camps in Germany but released because the U.S. Army never learned he was a war crimes suspect.

The 197-page report, hailed by Jewish groups, said Mengele masqueraded as a member of the German army. But it is possible, though unconfirmed, "that he was later registered and discharged under his own name," the report says.

"It is likely that he passed as a regular soldier and was released in routine fashion in the chaotic conditions that prevailed in the summer of 1945," the report says.

Mengele then lived in hiding in Germany for several years before making his way to South America.

There is no evidence that U.S. authorities knew of or aided his escape from Europe, the report says.

The Justice Department document confirms information reported in a 1986 book by Gerald Posner, titled "Mengele: The Complete Story."

Posner’s information was based on a quasi-diary that Mengele kept in Brazil, which was turned over to a German magazine, Bunte, by Mengele’s son, Rolf, in 1985.

According to Posner, Mengele "told the American camp authorities his real name."

Posner said Thursday that the Justice Department report is "not news in the sense of news." But he added that it has become "news since everyone has forgotten" what he disclosed six years ago.

"We are confirming and documenting some things that have been said before," acknowledged Eli Rosenbaum, principal deputy director of the Justice Department’s Office of Special Investigations, which prepared the report.

What is important about the report, he said, is that it is a confirmation, an actual documentation of the events, whereas Mengele’s diaries were more of "an autobiographical novel."

The OSI, which prepared the report at the behest of the attorney general, acknowledged Posner’s help in the report.

The purpose of the investigation, begun in 1985, was to determine Mengele’s whereabouts and activities between 1945 and 1949, and his whereabouts in 1985, so that authorities in Germany or Israel could try him.

The investigation, by the United States, Germany and Israel, resulted in the disinterring in June 1985 of Mengele’s remains on a beach in Brazil.

The report was withheld from the public until now because of a U.S. understanding with the Germans and Israelis that it would not be published until the conclusion of DNA testing of Mengele family members, said Rosenbaum.

That took place this past March and confirmed beyond a doubt that the man buried near Sao Paulo, Brazil, was definitely the Auschwitz doctor known as the "angel of death."

He died of a stroke at age 67 while swimming off the Brazilian coast near Sao Paulo.

Rosenbaum blamed the delay in issuing the report on the Mengele family’s resistance to the testing.

The report also says there is no evidence American authorities knew of Mengele’s whereabouts during the long search for the physician, who conducted terrible experiments on Jews and took part in mass murders.

The report confirms that after Mengele was released from U.S. custody, he lived under an alias on a farm in the U.S.-occupied zone of Germany before going to Italy in 1949 and then used a false identity to travel by ship to Argentina.

He moved to Paraguay in 1959 and Brazil a year later.

The investigation established that while he was in hiding, he received funds regularly from his wealthy family in Germany.

This new information adds Mengele’s name to a list of Nazi war criminals who were captured by U.S. forces after the war and released. Some were even used by U.S. intelligence forces and helped to escape.

But that was not the case with Mengele.

"Mengele fled Europe without U.S. assistance," the report says. "There is no evidence that he ever had a relationship with U.S. intelligence. Nor is there any evidence that he ever entered the United States, either under his own name or any known alias."

In Los Angeles, the Simon Wiesenthal Holocaust Center applauded the release of the report. But, the center’s associate dean, Rabbi Abraham Cooper, said the findings "confirm this mass murderer could and should have been put on trial for his crimes as early as 1946."

He said the report "shows that no Allied government, including the U.S., was properly motivated or committed in the immediate months and years after the Second World War to systematically pursue Nazi war criminals."

Here in New York, the Anti-Defamation League welcomed the report but said it continued to have questions about the case.

Said Abraham Foxman, ADL national director, "One can only wonder how so notorious and well-known a Nazi could have lived so long in freedom. Mengele’s death may have closed the book for some, but the story is yet to be complete for those who suffered directly or indirectly by his hand."


http://www.jta.org/1992/10/09/archive/m ... z2pnewQjlP


The report referred above can be found here: http://www.paperlessarchives.com/mengele.html

In 2008 a former Israeli spy said the Mossad could have captured or killed Mengele twice but chose not to do it.

Interview with Mossad Agent: 'We Could Have Killed Mengele'

September 08, 2008

In 1960, as Mossad agents were closing in on Holocaust architect Adolf Eichmann, they got word that notorious concentration camp "doctor" Josef Mengele was also in Buenos Aires. Operation leader Rafi Eitan told SPIEGEL why they didn't capture him too.

Josef Mengele was almost captured at the same time as Adolf Eichmann.

When the Mossad, Israel's intelligence agency, captured Holocaust bureaucrat Adolf Eichmann in Buenos Aires on May 11, 1960, they almost caught another big fish at the same time. Just as the team was preparing Eichmann's arrest and extradition, the Mossad got wind that Josef Mengele, the "doctor" from Auschwitz, was also in Buenos Aires.

Mengele gained notoriety for the gruesome experiments he carried out on concentration camp prisoners. But after the war, he was able to hide his identity and worked on a small farm in Bavaria until he moved to South America at the end of the 1940s. Mengele lived for a time in Buenos Aires and was there when Mossad agents arrived in the city to capture Eichmann, according to Rafi Eitan, a minister in the Israeli cabinet and an ex-Mossad agent. Last week, Eitan told journalists that because the Mossad had Eichmann in a Buenos Aires safe house when he learned of Mengele's presence, he decided not to go after the so-called "Angel of Death," as Mengele also was known.

Mengele died in 1979 when he had a stroke while swimming. Eitan spoke to SPIEGEL about his decision to fly back to Israel without him.

SPIEGEL: Josef Mengele fled Germany for South America not long after the end of World War II. When did you pick up his trail?

Rafi Eitan: In the spring of 1960, as we were planning the arrest of Adolf Eichmann, we learned that Mengele was also in Buenos Aires. Our people checked out the address and it proved to be correct.

SPIEGEL: So why didn't you arrest him?

Eitan: There were just 11 of us and we had our hands full dealing with Eichmann. After we had brought Eichmann to the house where we kept him until we flew him out, my boss at the Mossad, Isser Harel, called. He wanted us to arrest Mengele as well, but Mengele had left his home in the mean time. Harel said we should wait until he returned and then bring both he and Eichmann to Israel in the same plane. I refused because I didn't want to endanger the success of the Eichmann operation.

SPIEGEL: Was there at any point a discussion about which of the two were more important -- Mengele, the "Angel of Death" from Auschwitz, or Eichmann, who administered the deportation and murder of millions of Jews?

Eitan: No. In 1958, we resolved to capture a former Nazi and bring him to justice in Israel. Possible targets included Mengele, Eichmann, the former head of the Gestapo Heinrich Müller, and Hitler's right-hand man Martin Bormann. The first one we could find was Eichmann, so we concentrated on him.

SPIEGEL: Was Mengele tipped off by the arrest of Eichmann?

Eitan: I assume so. We wanted to keep Eichmann's extradition to Israel secret and then return to Buenos Aires to capture Mengele. But due to a leak, Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion had to make an official announcement about our success. When our agents returned to Argentina, Mengele had moved out of his apartment and gone underground.

SPIEGEL: He was never caught and died in 1979 not far from Sao Paulo when he had a stroke while swimming. Were you ever able to pick up his trail again before his death?

Eitan: We were able to find him one other time, but we were not able to organize an operation to capture him. We could have killed him with a sharpshooter, but we didn't want to. It wasn't about revenge.

SPIEGEL: But the Mossad did liquidate some Nazis, like the "Hangman of Riga" Herbert Cukurs in Montevideo in 1965.

Eitan: There were such operations, but I was against them. Criminals have to answer for their crimes before a court of law.

SPIEGEL: Does the Mossad still hunt down old Nazis?

Eitan: That era is over. But that's not to say that such operations are completely a thing of the past.

SPIEGEL: What do you mean by that?

Eitan: It could very well be that a leader such as Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad suddenly finds himself before the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

SPIEGEL: Do you mean that seriously?

Eitan: Absolutely. Those who spread poison and want to eradicate another people has to expect such consequences.


http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 76973.html
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 1 month ago (Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:29 am)

hermod wrote:November was too late. Mengele was out in summer 1945.


That's just a War Crimes Unit list I happened to have. You shouldn't assume that's the earliest there is. I don't have photographs of all War Crime Unit docs on my PC unsurprisingly.

G. Posner claims Mengele appeared on a wanted list in April 1945.

What I find amazing is Mengele used his real name while in U.S. custody. Had you been the terrible Angel of Death of Auschwitz - as terrible as the one described in most postwar 'Holocaust' tales - would you have given your real name to the Allies who had clearly promised during WW2 that they were going to punish the "Nazi crimes" very severely? That would have been suicide. Nothing forced Mengele to give his real name. He had no SS tattoo if memory serves me right. Giving his real name sounds like what a man who thought he had nothing to fear from the well-known Jew-loving Allies would have done.


He certainly concealed the fact he was SS.

Posner states that all POWs had to complete a questionnaire for their U.S. captors. Posner makes no mention of what Mengle's said. Presumably it was lost or destroyed.

Mengele, third and fourth name on lists given by former Auschwitz prisoners. Waw. That looks incredible after decades of horror tales on the Angel of Death.


They're not listed in order of purported malevolence.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney


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