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quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby Hannover » 5 years 10 months ago (Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:43 pm)

source:
http://www.quora.com/The-Holocaust/What ... m-ONeill-1

Here we have more from Tim O'Neill as he attempts to prove the 'holocaust' when shouting at CODOH participant Horhug.

Read below Tim O'Neill's contention that the alleged 'confessions' of former Auschwitz commandant, Rudolf Hoess, prove that the claimed exterminations at Auschwitz are fact.
CODOH Forum comments welcomed even though Hoess has been covered rather thoroughly.

Tim O'Neill, you are challenged to debate your position here, we eagerly await your posts.

- Hannover

Tim O'Neill says:
Rudolf Höss

A classic example of the kind of Nazi who was not a Holocaust denier when, if the deniers are correct, he should have been was Rudolf Höss. SS-Obersturmbannführer Höss was commandant of Auschwitz-Birkenau from May 1940 to November 1943. According to Höss' own testimony and later memoirs, he was summoned to Berlin in June 1941 where he received "personal orders" from Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler to turn Auschwitz-Birkenau into a large scale extermination camp, modelled on the facility already operating at Treblinka. Höss detailed later how he visited Treblinka and then, by September 1941, had established similar gas chambers and crematoria in Auschwitz.

From then on, according to his detailed testimony, Höss oversaw the arrival of two to three trains a day of up to 2000 people, from whom the stronger were selected for one of the Auschwitz work camps and the rest were gassed and burned. He detailed how he made his gas chambers capable of murdering ten times as many people as the ones at Treblinka and detailed other "improvements" to the killing process:

"Still another improvement we made over Treblinka was that at Treblinka the victims almost always knew that they were to be exterminated and at Auschwitz we endeavored to fool the victims into thinking that they were to go through a delousing process. Of course, frequently they realized our true intentions and we sometimes had riots and difficulties due to that fact. Very frequently women would hide their children under the clothes but of course when we found them we would send the children in to be exterminated." (Höss' affidavit for his Nuremberg trial )


As the Nazi regime crumbled, Höss and his family fled back to Germany and he was captured by British troops in May 1946, disguised as a farmer and claiming to be called Franz Lang. The British troops had been tipped off that he was the commandant of Auschwitz (several of them happened to be Jewish) and beat him until he admitted his real identity. From that point on he co-operated with the Allied authorities fully.

Höss' testimony throughout his trial was matter-of-fact and precise. Despite being on trial for his life, he was not agitated and seemed resigned to his fate - a psychologist described him as "apathetic" and investigators commented on how co-operative he was with them. In his testimony and in the memoir he was allowed to write while in prison, Höss was absolutely straightforward about what he had done:

I commanded Auschwitz until 1 December 1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total dead of about 3,000,000. This figure represents about 70% or 80% of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries.(Höss' affidavit for his Nuremberg trial)

He later expressed regret for his crimes, but like most Nazi war criminals justified them by saying they were actions taken in war time, that the victims were seen as enemies of the state and that he was "only following orders". He was executed by being hanged on a gallows specially constructed next to the main crematorium at Auschwitz on April 16 1947.

Anyone trying to claim that the Holocaust never happened, that the numbers of Jews killed have been exaggerated, that eye witnesses lied or can't have seen what they claim and that there were no gas chambers, no massive crematoria and no systematic mass murder of millions of men, women and children in death factories like Auschwitz need to explain the calm, detailed and co-operative testimony of Rudolf Höss and hundreds like him. They need to explain why he never objected that he was being framed, that there were no gas chambers and that these charges were all a lie. They need to explain why he detailed what he did with what was almost pride at the scale of his operation and did so in a way that is corroborated by thousands of other eye-witnesses (Nazis, prisoners and Soviet soldiers), as well as photographs, documents and a mass of other evidence.

In other words, they need to explain why Rudolf Höss, of all people, wasn't a Holocaust denier and why NONE of the Nazis involved in these crimes EVER denied they happened. They need to explain why even the Nazis themselves disagree with Holocaust denial.

They can't, which exposes all their other quibbles, distortions, twisting of words, denials and fabrications as the evil and pathetic lies they are.

EDIT: After over 1000 upvotes and 40+ comments, there are a couple of further points I think are worth making.

(i) Several people, both in the comments and in other answers have leapt on the fact that Höss was beaten when he was first arrested and, to varying degrees, tried to argue this somehow invalidates his entire testimony. This is the standard way that Deniers brush aside all of Höss' evidence and a few of those using it here have the stench of Denier around their comments.

Others, however, simply don't seem to have thought their comments through. When Höss was captured his captors already knew who he was. His wife also confirmed it, but he continued to maintain he was a farmer called Lang (knowing that admitting to being Rudolf Höss was tantamount to a death sentence). This was when some of his captors beat him up until he admitted who he was.

But no-one then continued to beat him up for the next YEAR, during which he willingly signed affidavits about what he'd done, testified at length at Nuremberg and even wrote a detailed memoir detailing his life, making excuses for his actions and explaining what he did at Auschwitz in detail. On the contrary, he expressed surprise at how well he was treated.

So to pretend all of his months and months of detailed testimony were somehow precipitated by one beating when he was captured and that he went to the gallows sticking to a story that was, somehow, an elaborate lie is clearly absurd. It's made doubly absurd by the fact that everything he said was confirmed by vast documentation, by multiple eye-witnesses including other Nazis of varying rank, by photographs and by archaeology. It takes a special kind of stupidity to argue this one beating means we can ignore all of Höss' evidence and he is just ONE of the hundreds of Nazis who detailed what happened. Again, not a single Nazi ever questioned, and thousands of them were, ever denied the Holocaust.

(ii). Several other answers note people they know who survived the Holocaust or who liberated concentration camps like Belsen and argue this is proof the Holocaust happened. The question is asking for a knockout punch against Deniers and, unfortunately, that evidence doesn't bother them much. They don't deny there were concentration camps, work camps, ghettos, mass deportations, mass shootings or even deaths into the hundreds of thousands from hunger and disease. They deny, however, that there was any order to exterminate millions, any organised program of systematic mass killing, any extermination camps, any gas chambers and any death toll in the multiple millions. So a grandmother with a camp tattoo or a great uncle who saw Buchenwald doesn't convince them.

This is why cutting through all their crap and confronting them with the fact that, without exception, every Nazi tried or questioned over the matter fully agreed it all happened leaves them with nowhere to go. All they can do is fall back on idiotic arguments like the one above about Höss' being roughed up, which simply exposes their position as the utter irrational stupidity it is.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 10 months ago (Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:22 pm)

Correct me if I am wrong on this, but my understanding is that Hoess did not testify: his written testimony in English, a language he could not speak, was read out and he was asked if it was his testimony, to which he replied with the single word "Yes". He was not cross-examined.

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby Hannover » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:15 pm)

Clueless Tim O'Neill is certainly a glutton for punishment. He takes an additional whipping here: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

As for his Hoess nonsense, the facts below are from a previous thread: Interrogation of Hoess
The coerced Hoess 'statements', 'confessions' are old news for Revisionists and are easily shown to work against the standard 'holocaust' storyline. And to begin with, the alleged gassings were scientifically impossible and there are no human remains that can be shown to support what was forced out of Hoess. Not to mention the impossibility of cremating the numbers alleged in the times alleged. All of which serve to make Hoess's statements mere curiosities. As my signature says: "If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't."
recommended:
- Rudolf Hoess's varying death toll estimates for Auschwitz
http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blog ... 77c3f13dad

- Rudolf Hoess: The Legal Implications of his Forced Confession
http://codoh.com/library/document/237/

- Is the Holocaust Well Documented?
Bollinger's Outrageous Statement
http://codoh.com/library/document/144/

Here are some details about Hoess from other posts. There's tons more at this forum, try our search function.
People will say the strangest things when tortured and threatened.
Hannover wrote:From Hoess himself:
"During the first interrogation they beat me to obtain evidence. I do not know what was in the transcript, or what I said, even though I signed it, because they gave me liquor and beat me with a whip. It was too much even for me to bear. The whip was my own. By chance it had found its way into my wife's luggage. My horse had hardly ever been touched by it, much less the prisoners. Somehow one of the interrogators probably thought that I had used it to constantly whip the prisoners."(11)
- 11.R. Hoess, p. 179.


An account by Rupert Butler on the capture and interrogation of Rudolf Hoess, includes the following episode:
"The prisoner was torn from the top bunk, the pyjamas ripped from his body. He was then dragged naked to one of the slaughter tables, where it seemed to [Bernard] Clarke he blows and screams were endless. Eventually, the Medical Officer urged the Captain: 'Call them off, unless you want to take back a corpse.'"(12)
- 12.R. Butler, Legions of Death, Hamlyn, (London, 1983), p.237. Also:
R. Faurisson, "How the British Obtained the Confessions of Rudolf Hoess." The Journal of Historical Review (JHR) 7(4) (1986) pp.389-403.


The admission of Bernard Clarke was corroborated by Mr. Ken Jones in 'The Wrexham Leader', October 17, 1986.
Mr. Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery stationed at Heid in Schleswig-Holstein.
"They brought him to us when he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activites during the war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks," recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Hoess in his cell to help break him down for interrogation."

"We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance," said Mr. Jones.

When Hoess was taken out for exercise, he was made to wear only jeans and a thin cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Hoess finally broke down and made a full confession to the authorities.

And:
The following article may clarify some of the issues with regard to Rudolf Hoess that came up in a separate thread. Due to its length, I decided to post it separately here. This is a single chapter from Samuel Crowell's "The Gas Chamber of Sherlock Holmes: An Attempt at a Literary Analysis of the Holocaust Gassing Claim." It may be found in its entirety on-line at:http://www.codoh.com/incon/inconshr123.html


8. The Confessions of Rudolf Höss

HÖSS WAS SEIZED on March 13, 1946, on a farm in the British Zone where he had spent the past several months as a common laborer. His affidavits deserve particular attention: for many years historians have been content to merely quote extracts from Höss' affidavits, usually the one from April 5, 1946, as proof of the mass gassings. The popularity of this affidavit, also known as PS-3868, is directly related to the fact that it is the only thorough narrative concerning Auschwitz made by Höss that was entered into the trial record at the IMT. In later writings, Höss would claim that he had been severely beaten in the early period of his confinement, and later revelations, largely developed by Robert Faurisson, indicate that he was systematically tortured, largely by sleep deprivation.

These factors probably explain the incoherence of his very first affidavit of March 16, 1946, which betrays a British influence in its many references to Belsen. The most interesting of these concerns a legend concerning 1,800 Belsen inmates who were sent to Auschwitz, a particularly venerable Holocaust story.

The April 5, 1946 affidavit is the one most frequently quoted and the one which makes the various gas extermination claims with some semblance of order. The claims may be summarized:

1. Mass gassings began in the summer of 1941 and continued until fall 1944.
2. 2,500,000 were gassed, another 500,000 died from other means for a total of 3 million.
3. Höss left Auschwitz in December of 1943, but he kept informed.
4. The "Final Solution" meant the complete extermination of Jews in Europe.
5. Höss was ordered to establish extermination facilities in Auschwitz in June, of 1941, on direct orders from Himmler.
6. Höss visited Belzec, Treblinka, and Wolzek, where carbon monoxide was used.
7. Höss decided to use Zyklon B.
8. "We knew when the people were dead because their screaming stopped."
9. Gas chambers could hold 2,000 people at a time.
10. Children were invariably exterminated and mothers tried to hide their children.
11. The exterminations were secret, but
12. The stench from the burnings informed everyone for miles around that exterminations were going on.

Offhand, the affidavit seems impressive and authoritative. But on closer analysis it is clear that the document contributes absolutely nothing to what was already known as a "fact of common knowledge" at the time. Indeed, it seems remarkable that nearly all prior commentators on Höss fail to recognize the significance of the fact that by the time of his capture the gassing narrative had achieved almost finished form at the bar of the International Military Tribunal.

In detail: that the exterminations were directly ordered by Himmler simply repeats the unsubstantiated assertion found the Höttl affidavit of 1945. The idea that the exterminations went back to 1941, and that the Final Solution was a code word for the extermination of the Jews, goes back to the Nuremberg testimony of Dieter Wisliceny, Bach dem Zelewski, and Ohlendorf given in January, 1946. The emphasis on the fate of the children reflects the testimonies of Shmaglevskaya and Vaillant-Couturier in January and February. The reference to the stench of the burnings is, as we shall see, a hoary exaggeration that goes back to rumors of the euthanasia campaign in 1941. The claimed number of victims for Höss' tenure -- 2.5 million gassed and 0.5 million dead by other means -- is traceable to the confession of Grabner the previous September. Both reflect the calculations of the Soviet Special Commission on Auschwitz, which claimed 4 million for the entire period of the camp's operation, which, if it came to 3 million by the end of 1943, implied approximately 1 million in 1944. It is also interesting to note that the range of victims -- 2.5 to 3 million -- as well as other details, coincides with the testimony of Pery Broad at the Tesch and Stabenow trial in Hamburg just weeks before. On the other hand, there was no "Wolzek" camp, and none of the three camps Höss claimed to have inspected existed in 1941.

The April 5, 1946 Höss affidavit is simply a confirmation of what was already known. What it contributed was not new, and where it was new it was clearly wrong. It provides no elaboration or explanation for any of the claims which it repeats, in fact, most of Höss' testimony at Nuremberg, ten days later, consisted of making statements that failed to confirm the contents of the affidavit. After his testimony on behalf of Kaltenbrunner, his cross-examination by the prosecution consisted merely of nodding or answering "yes" as his affidavit was read into the record. The affidavit is ultimately an extension and confirmation of the Canonical Holocaust as represented by the Soviet Special Commission on Auschwitz. As such it is practically valueless from a historiographical point of view.

Nevertheless, it cannot be denied that Höss' statements speak with great authority to most historians due to his role at the commandant of Auschwitz. Therefore the peculiarities of this affidavit require further study. The best way to do this is by reviewing the previous record of interrogations and affidavits. It soon becomes evident that the affidavit of April 5, 1946 drew not only on the antecedent interrogations but also on the affidavit of March 16. It is therefore necessary to take a closer look that affidavit.

We recall first of all that according to a number of sources, Höss was beaten and deprived of sleep for perhaps three days while the March 16 affidavit was being prepared. This is important to note because it suggests that pressure was being applied to Höss during these initial interrogations. One can easily imagine, for example, that a prominent Nazi might have been beaten upon entering custody. Yet sleep deprivation is something else, it is not a punishment one would inflict on someone in anger or in a rage. Hence there exists a strong suspicion that Höss was deprived of sleep in the course of his interrogation, in order to manipulate his responses.

The affidavit of March 16, 1946, also known as NO-1210, exists only in an English version (although it references an original). After going over details of his early life and prior career as a Nazi, Höss discusses Auschwitz:

I was given the order, by a higher authority the then inspectorate of concentration camps, to transform the former Polish Artillery Barracks near AUSCHWITZ into a quarantine camp for prisoners coming from Poland. After HIMMLER inspected the camp in 1941, I received the order to enlarge the camp and to employ the prisoners in the to be developed agricultural district and to drain the swamps and inundation area of the Weichsel. Furthermore he ordered to put 8-10000 prisoners at the disposal of the building of the new Buna Works of the I.G. Farben. At the same time he ordered the erection of a POW camp for 100 000 Russian prisoners, near BIRKENAU.

The number of prisoners grew daily in spite of my repeated interventions that billets were not sufficient, and further intakes were sent to me. Epidemic diseases were unavoidable because medical provisions were inadequate. The death rate rose accordingly. As prisoners were not buried, crematoriums had to be installed.

In 1941 the first intakes of Jews came from Slovakia and Upper Silesia. People unfit to work were gassed in a room at the crematorium in accordance with an order which HIMMLER gave to me personally.
I was ordered to see HIMMLER in BERLIN in June 1941 and he told me, approximately, the following:- The Fuehrer ordered the solution of the Jewish Question in Europe. A few so-called Vernichtungslager are existing in the General Government (BELZEK near RAVA RUSKA East Poland Tublinka near MALINA on the river Bug, and WOLZEK near Lublin).
The first thing we notice upon reviewing this excerpt is that Höss is providing two different narratives. According to the first two paragraphs, in 1941 Himmler visited Auschwitz in order to direct the expansion of the camp (which would have meant Birkenau) with a view to establishing a quarantine camp. The establishment of a quarantine camp in turn implies a function similar to the disinfection center established at Auschwitz twenty years earlier by the Americans, while the quarantine itself implies the later transfer of prisoners into Germany for labor purposes. The increased transports and the increasing epidemics (which presumably would have meant 1942) accords with all sources, and provides a ready explanation for the construction of the crematoria which were planned in the summer of 1942 and were completed in the spring of 1943.

On the other hand, the very next two paragraphs tell a completely different story, albeit one more or less consistent with the affidavit of April 5. According to this one, Höss was called to Berlin in June 1941 for a meeting with Himmler, and was told to arrange for the extermination of the Jews. For this reason, he conducted a tour of the other extermination camps in 1942, yet still back in this 1941 meeting I had to make the preparations at once. He [Himmler] wanted the exact construction plans in accordance with this instruction in four weeks. In other words, from June, 1941, Höss was now to be constructing crematoria with gas chambers for the purpose of exterminating the Jewish people.

Before proceeding with a comparison of these two narratives there are three points of detail to establish. The first is the date of Höss' tour of the other extermination camps. This came up in the interrogation of April 3, 1946 in the morning session (page 7):

Q. To come back to the facts about your trip to Treblinka. If I understand you correctly, you told me the other day that you visited Treblinka in 1941.
A. Yes.
Q. And in another statement by you, made at another place, you said you visited Treblinka in 1942. Which year is correct?
A. 1941 is correct. If I said 1942, it was incorrect.
The second point of detail concerns the timing of the order Höss claimed to receive from Himmler. This was addressed during the first interrogation of April 1, 1946 (page 18-19):
Q. But you said you received the order from the Reichsfuehrer SS in person.
A. Yes.
Q. About July, 1941? Where did you see him?
A. I was ordered to him in Berlin.
Q. Are you sure it was after the Russian campaign had started.
A. No, it was before the Russian campaign had started.
Q. Then it couldn't have been in July.
A. I cannot remember the exact month, but I know it was before the date that the Russian campaign was launched.
The third and final point of detail concerns the mysterious "Wolzek" camp, described as "near Lublin" on March 16 and therefore clearly a garbling of "Majdanek" which was actually the name of the suburb of Lublin where the camp was situated. This came up in the interrogation of April 4, 1946 in the afternoon session (page 5), during the following exchange:
Q. Did the camps in the East come under the Inspectorate of the Concentration Camps?
A. Only those that I mentioned in the Baltic countries, as those labor camps belonging to the Riga territory, and Lublin, Warsaw, and Krakow, which I mentioned before.
Q. How about Treblinka, Wolzek, and Belzek?
A. They came under the commander of the Security Police and Higher SS and Police Leader of Krakow.

Therefore, with respect to the second narrative of the March 16, 1946 affidavit we can say that there is no doubt that Höss claimed his meeting with Himmler took place in June, 1941, that he inspected the other extermination camps at that time, and that he prepared plans for gas chambers and crematoria within a few weeks of that meeting. The reference to "Wolzek" is of importance mainly because its mention by the American interrogator establishes that the March 16, 1946 affidavit was used as the basis for these interrogations as well as for the drafting of the April 5, 1946 affidavit.

At this point we have to exercise some judgment, and attempt to reconstruct the sequence of events. In the first two paragraphs of his March 16 description of events at Auschwitz, Höss sets forth a narrative that corresponds with all currently known facts about the camp. In other words, the account is objectively true, the only questionable aspect concerns the rationale behind the crematoria construction. On the other hand, in the second two paragraphs Höss provides a narrative that cannot possibly be true, but which accords with conventional wisdom in a general sense in terms of crematoria construction and Jewish exterminations. It is doubtful if Höss, unbidden, would have told two completely different stories one right after the other. We surmise therefore that Höss was pressured, probably by sleep deprivation, at some point between the two narratives.

Now the question concerns the order of the stories. We can imagine a situation where Höss might have been pressured after the first narrative in order to produce the second one, but it is not believable that Höss would have been pressured to produce the first one after freely offering the second. The reason should be obvious: the first narrative provides an innocuous rationale both for the construction of Birkenau as well the crematoria, and furthermore contradicts the second narrative. It follows therefore that the first narrative was the original narrative that Höss offered.

But was that initial narrative true? We know that, objectively speaking, it does not contradict our current knowledge about the camp, except, again, with regard to a possibly self-serving explanation for constructing the crematoria. But the real point is not the objective truth of the initial narrative as much as the fact that the apparent pressure subsequently applied tells us that his interrogators did not believe it. They were, however, apparently satisfied with the second narrative, including other details which Höss offered farther on, including such statements as
I imagine about 3,000,000 people were put to death, about 2,500,000 were put through the gas-chambers. Those numbers are officially put down and personal experiences also by Obersturmbannfuehrer EICHMANN in a report to the specialist on Jews in the RSHA to be passed on to HIMMLER. Those people were mostly Jews. I personally remember during my time as Camp Commandant at Auschwitz the order from the Gestapo to gas 70,000 Russian Prisoners of war which I did. The highest number of prisoners put through the gas-chambers at AUSCHWITZ was 10,000 in one day. The limit of what the installations could do. I also remember the big transports which arrived: 90,000 from Slovakia, 85,000 from Greece, 110,000 from France, 20,000 from Belgium, 90,000 from Holland, 400,000 from Hungary, 250,000 from Poland and Upper Silesia and 100,000 from Germany and Theresienstadt.

Here we have another implicit contradiction: first, the claim that three million were put to death, of which 2.5 million were gassed, and that they were "mostly Jews" but that at the same time only slightly over one million Jews "arrived" at the camp. As already noted, the 2.5-3 million range is false, and was never supported by any written document. But the distribution of the Jewish transports is remarkably consistent with numbers Höss would come back to again and again, and with the exception of the Hungarian and Polish numbers, accords more or less with universally accepted calculations. At this point, we will simply note that Höss references the "arrival" of these Jews but not their deaths.

The final question we have to deal with here is the state of mind of his interrogators. If the first narrative is correct, and the second narrative false, why would his interrogators allow him to make what in retrospect are such obvious errors? The simplest explanation is that his interrogators did not recognize the errors as such, which indicates that they were acting more or less in good faith, but under a cloud of ignorance. Interrogating the commandant of Auschwitz, with a general sense of what had happened, based on such documents as the WRB Report, the Soviet Special Commission on Auschwitz, and the ongoing International Military Tribunal, the interrogators simply led the interrogation -- and the sleep deprivation -- in order to get him to provide a version of events that would correspond not so much with what they knew, but what they felt would be the truth.

The erroneous details of the March 16, 1946 affidavit loom larger when we realize that all of the interrogations leading up to the preparation of the April 5 affidavit are based on it, in an almost literal page by page sequence. We also find, in reviewing those early April interrogations, that Höss coolly repeats again and again the same false statements from the prior affidavit -- sometimes, admittedly, with some confusion, which usually led to some prompting by the Americans as to where he should be going with his answers.

But the interrelationship of the materials is very important. Reading the interrogations of April 1-4, 1946 in isolation, one is generally impressed with the manner in which Höss frankly describes the development of an extermination program. He must be telling the truth. On the other hand, the researcher is likely to be crestfallen as Höss repeats other statements that couldn't possibly be true. He must, for some reason, be lying. It is only after comparing the various statements that one begins to understand that by April, 1946 Höss was mechanically repeating the story elicited from him in March, and that narrative structure, including the 1941 extermination order, and the visits to non-existent camps, would be a feature of all subsequent affidavits.

Within a few weeks, Höss was transferred to Poland, where he was extensively interrogated prior to hearings in Krakow in December, 1946. A number of affidavits were prepared in November, and these, stitched together with the memoirs he penciled in early 1947, have frequently been issued as his "Autobiography." A feature of one of these affidavits, "The Final Solution of the Jewish Question" contains elements that differ from the previous affidavits but retains most of the same errors. The main feature of this affidavit is that Höss distanced himself from the figure of 2.5-3 million victims, which he blamed on Eichmann and British torture, while repeating the distribution by nationality of about one million Jewish arrivals.

It is frequently stated that the "Autobiography" was composed in its entirety after Höss was sentenced to death, so that he would have had no reason to lie or shade the truth. This does not appear to be accurate. Whatever the determination of the Krakow hearings, Höss was not put on trial until March 11 of 1947, the trial lasting for almost three weeks. At his trial, Höss admitted to all charges and directed all of his questions to witnesses with a view to bringing down the total number of victims, cited in the indictment as "about 300,000 camp registered inmates", "about 4,000,000 people mainly Jews brought to the camp from different European countries to be killed upon their arrival" and twelve thousand Soviet POW's. On the other hand, Höss did contradict his November, 1946 affidavit in court by claiming that the total killed was 2.5 million. It appears that Höss' questioning had some effect: in its verdict, the court determined that "an undetermined number of people, at least 2,500,000, mainly Jews" were murdered.

Höss was sentenced to death on April 2, 1947, by the Supreme National Tribunal of Poland, just two weeks before he was hanged, and two months after his memoirs had been completed. The memoirs themselves are a model of incoherence and contradiction, containing a number of demonstrable untruths, as for example the reference to the secret files recording the "several millions" of Germans who were killed in the Anglo-American bombing campaign. Nevertheless the memoirs, or more precisely the November affidavit on the "Final Solution" attached to them to form the "Autobiography", remain the most frequently cited source for the reality of the gassing claim, although what actually happens is that the mere existence of these writings is used to give retroactive authority to the problematic April 5, 1946 affidavit, which, as we have seen, leads back to the March 16, 1946 affidavit, which contained numerous false statements extracted under torture.
and:
Hannover wrote:Supported by statements from his British torturers, again:
The admission of Bernard Clarke was corroborated by Mr. Ken Jones in 'The Wrexham Leader', October 17, 1986.
Mr. Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery stationed at Heid in Schleswig-Holstein.

"They brought him to us when he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activites during the war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks," recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Hoess in his cell to help break him down for interrogation."

"We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance," said Mr. Jones.

When Hoess was taken out for exercise, he was made to wear only jeans and a thin cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Hoess finally broke down and made a full confession to the authorities.
and:
"The prisoner was torn from the top bunk, the pyjamas ripped from his body. He was then dragged naked to one of the slaughter tables, where it seemed to [Bernard] Clarke he blows and screams were endless. Eventually, the Medical Officer urged the Captain: 'Call them off, unless you want to take back a corpse.'"(12)
- 12.R. Butler, Legions of Death, Hamlyn, (London, 1983), p.237. Also:
R. Faurisson, "How the British Obtained the Confessions of Rudolf Hoess." The Journal of Historical Review (JHR) 7(4) (1986) pp.389-403.
Excellent detailed debunking of Hoess's 'confessions" here:
http://codoh.com/library/document/1968/
How the British Obtained the Confessions of Rudolf Höss

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of Truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.


- Hannover
The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of Truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby Atigun » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:14 pm)

O'Neil claims that Hoess gave his confession of his own free will and therefore told the absolute truth. Hoess "confessed" to overseeing the murder of 2.5 million people by means of poison gas and 3 million dead from all causes at Auschwitz. In light of new evidence, the official death toll at Auschwitz from all causes now stands at 1.5 million. How does O'Neil reconcile such a difference? Was Hoess lying in his confession or is the current number of victims at Auschwitz understated by 1.5 million? He can't have it both ways.

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby Dresden » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:47 pm)

Atigun said:

"Was Hoess lying in his confession or is the current number of victims at Auschwitz understated by 1.5 million? He can't have it both ways"

Rudolf Höss was just exaggerating to please his captors; plus, it was hard to keep count since they were all gassed on arrival without being registered.
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby Atigun » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:01 pm)

Steve F wrote:Atigun said:

"Was Hoess lying in his confession or is the current number of victims at Auschwitz understated by 1.5 million? He can't have it both ways"

Rudolf Höss was just exaggerating to please his captors; plus, it was hard to keep count since they were all gassed on arrival without being registered.


Uh...Say whut, Steve? LOL Just a slight "misoverestimation" of 1.5 million or so. Well, I'm glad that you cleared that up for me. O'Neil didn't actually say that, did he?

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby hermod » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:37 pm)

In October 1945, at the Belsen 'trial', Hoess' colleague at Auschwitz, Josef Kramer*, first denied the Auschwitz gas chambers and then suddenly 'recovered memory' 4 days later, conveniently 'confessing' all what his gaolers expected from him.

Image
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 9,17272652

Image
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 88,2034120

What is that supposed to prove? That detained Nazis confessed freely and voluntarily in Allied custody? :roll:


* Kramer was supposedly "in charge of the gas chambers in Auschwitz concentration camp" between 1942 and 1944 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Kramer#Auschwitz).
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby Dresden » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:22 pm)

Atigun said:

"Uh...Say whut, Steve? LOL Just a slight "misoverestimation" of 1.5 million or so. Well, I'm glad that you cleared that up for me"

No, Atigun; not "just" a slight misoverestimation.

What I said was:

"Rudolf Höss was just exaggerating to please his captors....."

".....plus, it was hard to keep count since they were all gassed on arrival without being registered"

So, although the real number is 1.5 million, Rudolf Höss might have thought it was about 2 million; and to please his captors, he exaggerated it to 2.5 or 3 million.

I am not sure what the official story of the month is, but I've seen it argued that the 1.5 million is "only Jews".
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby Atigun » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:32 pm)

Steve F wrote:Atigun said:

"Uh...Say whut, Steve? LOL Just a slight "misoverestimation" of 1.5 million or so. Well, I'm glad that you cleared that up for me"

No, Atigun; not "just" a slight misoverestimation.

What I said was:

"Rudolf Höss was just exaggerating to please his captors....."

".....plus, it was hard to keep count since they were all gassed on arrival without being registered"

So, although the real number is 1.5 million, Rudolf Höss might have thought it was about 2 million; and to please his captors, he exaggerated it to 2.5 or 3 million.

I am not sure what the official story of the month is, but I've seen it argued that the 1.5 million is "only Jews".


I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. Do you mean that Hoess gave his confession freely, without coercion but exaggerated the number of deaths due to his desire to please his captors or from ignorance of actual numbers? Do you believe that a large but unknown number of people were killed with HCN immediately upon their arrival at Auschwitz? Do you believe that 1.5 million is the "real" number of people murdered at Auschwitz?

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby Dresden » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:41 pm)

Atigun said:

"I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. Do you mean that Hoess gave his confession freely, without coercion....."

No, I believe Höss was tortured and his family threatened with being deported to Siberia.

".....but exaggerated the number of deaths due to his desire to please his captors or from ignorance of actual numbers?"

Playing Devil's Advocate, I was very clear; I don't see what there is to misunderstand.
I said:

"So, although the real number is 1.5 million, Rudolf Höss might have thought it was about 2 million; and to please his captors, he exaggerated it to 2.5 or 3 million"

I don't know what other words I could put it in to make it any clearer.

"Do you believe that a large but unknown number of people were killed with HCN immediately upon their arrival at Auschwitz?"

No!.....I believe the precise number of people who were killed by HCN at Auschwitz is zero!

"Do you believe that 1.5 million is the "real" number of people murdered at Auschwitz?"

No!.....I believe there were probably a few hundred murdered at Auschwitz by brutal Jewish, Polish, and German Communist Kapos, who, near the end of the war, stole food from weak inmates, and left them to starve, and also beat people to death for their belongings, or for other reasons, such as "snitching".

I also "believe" that some German personnel who knew it was a Jewish war to destroy Germany, and whose Mothers, Fathers, wives and children were roasted alive in places like Dresden, Hamburg, and hundreds of other German cities, probably out of despair, strangled the life out of some of the gangster type Communist Jews in the camps; but this is just guesswork on my part.
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby Atigun » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:16 pm)

"Playing devil's advocate," which is why I asked if O'Neil actually said something like that. At any rate, it sounds as though you just want to bicker. I don't and I'm outa' here.

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby Dresden » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:51 pm)

Atigun said:

"it sounds as though you just want to bicker"

"Bicker"?

First Atigun said:

"Was Hoess lying in his confession or is the current number of victims at Auschwitz understated by 1.5 million? He can't have it both ways"

.....and to show the faulty reasoning in that statement, I simply played Devil's Advocate, that is, I answered like a Holohoax promoter or Believer might answer, and said:

"Rudolf Höss was just exaggerating to please his captors; plus, it was hard to keep count since they were all gassed on arrival without being registered"

So far, no "bickering".

Then Atigun said:

"Uh...Say whut, Steve? LOL Just a slight "misoverestimation" of 1.5 million or so. Well, I'm glad that you cleared that up for me. O'Neil didn't actually say that, did he?"

So, what did I say in my simple one sentence response to deserve such a snide reply.....and who's "bickering"?

Not only a snide reply, but you also twisted the crystal clear meaning of my words, and when I pointed out your error, you said:

"I'm not sure if I understand you correctly"

Then you change the subject, pull out your Catechism and grill me on my "beliefs", and stupid me, I answered you honestly and sincerely, instead of simply saying: "What difference does it make what I believe?"

For you to accuse me of "bickering" is only "projection".

You sure don't like people disagreeing with you, do you?
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby Hektor » 4 years 5 months ago (Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:43 am)

hermod wrote:In October 1945, at the Belsen 'trial', Hoess' colleague at Auschwitz, Josef Kramer*, first denied the Auschwitz gas chambers and then suddenly 'recovered memory' 4 days later, conveniently 'confessing' all what his gaolers expected from him.

Image
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 9,17272652
....
What is that supposed to prove? That detained Nazis confessed freely and voluntarily in Allied custody? :roll:
* Kramer was supposedly "in charge of the gas chambers in Auschwitz concentration camp" between 1942 and 1944 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Kramer#Auschwitz).
I started out being open to the idea that the SS guard Hilde Lisiewitz (later Michnia) must be a different person to the young woman that was convicted of war crimes in 1945," Reichental told the Guardian this week.

"I was prepared to meet Hilde, who had been a perpetrator and who I thought had seen the light and changed her values," he said. "I was prepared to reconcile with her and shake her hand, because in my naïve thinking she was also a victim of her own time."...
Josef Kramer got a colleague who also is "in denial": Hilde Lisiewicz or Hilde Michnia as is here name after being married. She was working in the kitchen in the camps.
But the documentary filmmakers unearthed a filmed interview with the woman, in which she said she was proud to wear the Nazi uniform. The woman, who accompanied prisoners on a 1945 march, during which about 1,400 women died, also said she had done nothing wrong and her only job on that march was to make hot chocolate and soup for the prisoners....
"By her action of not meeting, in denying the murder of inmates in Bergen-Belsen, she has chosen to justify and distort her own role during the Third Reich," he said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/h ... -1.2106124
Making Hot chocolate and soup - I like that one
Despite Michnia's crimes, Reichental wanted to meet her. "But Hilde didn't arrive at the meeting we planned in Hamburg. Tomi was told she was too ill. But we discovered it wasn't true. This is a woman who denies her past and her crimes to her neighbors and apparently also to her family.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 79,00.html
She admits having been female worker in the camps. And perhaps she "denies her crimes", because she didn't commit any.
Hilde Michnia denies the claims - saying she only worked in the kitchens...
Ms Michnia told Die Welt newspaper she had not been involved in any atrocities and only worked in the kitchens.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 17710.html
Apparently she made it very clear that she didn't know about any crimes or "atrocities" in the German media as well.
Maybe I should prepare those articles to get more info for us. I btw. found out who is the prick that laid charges against Hilde Michnia, a Hans-Juergen Brennecke, and have his contact details now.

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 5 months ago (Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:22 am)

I've read that ynetnews article. As far as I can see, even if one were to accept the worst about Hilde Michnia, she was tried and served her sentence in 1945. Do they really want to try her and sentence her again for offences she already did time for?


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