Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

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Hektor
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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Hektor » 2 years 2 months ago (Mon May 29, 2017 5:48 pm)

Werd wrote:I read some. This one stuck out.
One example: Rovno district in western Ukraine (22/12/42). Yet according to nessie's source, it was liquidated with bullets in July 1943.

"Hermann Graebe was the local representative of the construction firm of Josef Jung which employed around 100 Jewish workers who lived in the Rovno ghetto. "

Hermann testified he went to an SS man telling him to keep quiet about the planned executions that were coming. He testified at Nuremburg in an Einsatzgruppen case in 1947. But you raise an interesting point that could be applied to this one as well. Bodies and autopsies appear to be lacking.



I just read that Graebe testimony at Nuremberg (an affidavit - hence no cross-examination) and it dealt with "5000 Jews shot at Dubno". I wonder about a forensic investigation in this as well.

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Werd » 2 years 2 months ago (Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:09 pm)

Me on page 8:
Werd wrote:From National Geographic tv.

EINSATZGRUPPEN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLUgou38QGo
Published on May 12, 2015
I created this video with the YouTube Video Editor (http://www.youtube.com/editor)

From 5:33 onward.

"After filming the aftermath of the Babi Yar massacre, the photographer, Johannes Hähle, kept recording the activities of the Einsatzgruppen. On October 16th 1941, Hähle documented the round up of the local Jewish population in the Ukranian village of Lubny. Within hours, the "action" would permanently remove this population."

It then goes on. But to watch this video, along with the bits and pieces from the photo collection of Johannes Hähle, I would suspect Eric Hunt or others would have the right to point to these photographs and say, "Here. German evidence of clearing of Jewish populations and pacification by bullets."

HOWEVER, littlegreyrabbit is very skeptical of the babi yar story.
https://littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.com/ ... o-rumbula/
He rightfully glosses over the so called confessions the Germans made while in British custody in 1945. He makes the point that the Nazis were supposed to have blown of the walls of the massively dug ravine with explosives. And yet, supposed eye witnesses do not even mention it. He has pretty much the same photos in his collection that Eric Hunt has been using recently as 'proof' that over 33,000 were disposed of.

English Russia has some interesting colour photos taken during the Nazi occupation of Ukraine.
http://englishrussia.com/2011/09/15/sho ... pied-kiev/


A little snip from littlegreyrabbit.
https://littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.com/2011/03/10/blowing-up-the-ravine-walls-of-babi-yar-and-also-rumbula/
The album, while containing no images of weapons or bodies, does contain a number of photos of clothes either in wide angle or in close up, as below

Image
Gratuitous clothes close-up

This is, of course, seems just the message anti fascists would love to see, but is it really a priority of a photographer working in a Propagand Kompanie for the German Wehrmacht in 1941? The number and pointlessness of these photos of clothes is notable. The set of photographs only appeared in the late 1950s, via an unknown route and long after the death of the photographer Johannes Hähle. All his other photos available through the Bundesarchives seem to be black and white. Many of the photos of the Kiev set are identifiably from Kiev and from 1941. The only explanation I can come up with is a genuine set of photographs was discovered and then spliced with various shots of people wandering around Babi Yar carrying spades and arrays of clothes and belongings and then passed over to the West Germans. However, this is a matter for the individual reader to decide – but for myself, if they weren’t burying people in the ravine I can’t think of what they were doing, or why an official photographer would be recording it in the first place.

From the Kiev archives there are a few photos said to be of Babi Yar and substantially less dramatic or convincing regarding the clothes of 34 000 Jews (see below). Again, it is a matter for the individual reader to decide as to why these two sets of photographic records would be so radically different.

Image
Searching belongings: From the National Archives for Photos & Films, Kiev

More from the colour photo album of questionable origins can be seen here at this Russian site.
http://istorya.ru/forum/?showtopic=7391
Example:
Image
Image
Image

Looks like Babi Yar to me. Especially given this admitted photo of Babi Yar with a huge ravine.

http://englishrussia.com/2011/09/15/shocking-pictures-of-occupied-kiev/
Image
Babi Yar is a large ravine on the northern edge of Kiev which achieved notoriety as a place of mass executions of civilians and prisoners of war carried by German occupying forces. These horrible pictures are taken by German war photographer Johannes Hahle 10 days after Kiev’s occupation...

So were Jews in fact executed here just for being Jews? perhaps just not in the high numbers claimed. Although that is a lot of clothes and personal effects to be just left behind for...something...

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Hannover » 2 years 2 months ago (Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:58 pm)

No, Jews were not executed there just because they were Jews.
In spite of the laughable piles of clothing, pretending to be corpses. :lol:

If Babi Yar actually occurred as alleged (claimed 33,000 Jews shot into a pit & buried) we would easily enough be able to excavate the alleged site and see the contents.
There has been no such excavation, there will be no such excavation because the alleged event did not happen.
It's as simple as that.

Have a look at photos at the alleged time of the Babi Yar action, we see nothing whatsoever going on as alleged, zippo.
see photos and much more here:

'Babi Yar 'massacre' debunked'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41

- Hannover

This is too easy.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Tommo » 2 years 2 months ago (Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:05 pm)

I don't think there's any question Babi Yar was a Soviet hoax.

The only serious question is the extensiveness and character of Einsatz killings.

I'm led to believe some of the situation reports are verified frauds.

Which strengthens a conclusion that the whole thing is a lie.

I'm certain the German's across the board did some lying, dished out some of their own white and black propaganda, and also made some significant reprisal killings.

There was no plan to cleanse the Jew's or ethics regardless.

The German war record, is despite any atrocities, the most honourable and decent of all combatant forces. That last sentence is in my opinion undeniable.

I feel that, while we needed a massive campaign of lies, a show trial and wretched methods of false witnessing/false confession extraction- all of the allies could have been prosecuted and sentenced with real evidence, and a "just" court.
What are you angry about? By proving the gas chambers a lie, I just knocked off half the holocaust and SAVED 3 million Jew's for you!

I just saved more Jew's than Oskar Schindler allegedly ever did! :lol:

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Hektor » 1 year 8 months ago (Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:29 am)

Hannover wrote:No, Jews were not executed there just because they were Jews.
In spite of the laughable piles of clothing, pretending to be corpses. :lol:

If Babi Yar actually occurred as alleged (claimed 33,000 Jews shot into a pit & buried) we would easily enough be able to excavate the alleged site and see the contents.
There has been no such excavation, there will be no such excavation because the alleged event did not happen.
It's as simple as that.
....

But don't you know that Paul Blobel and his team made all the evidence vanish?

Seriously, the place, supposedly Babi Yar looks more like a rubbish dump. A place one can also conveniently hide arms caches, at least I would consider that, if I were a partisan or tasked with preparing partisan action. So there is plausible reasons for German soldiers / police / Einsatzgruppen to be at the place.

The other thing we shouldn't forget is that the Germans found and investigated evidence for Soviet massacres of civilians at various places. So Germans/ Axis troops to be on photos with corpses needs to be handled with care as evidence.

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby borjastick » 1 year 8 months ago (Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:27 pm)

Just for a bit of light relief over the coming Christmas break I am going to read again the third story in Rachel Seiffert's book The Dark Room. After all, I need some cheering up after the month I've just had.

I have just pulled it from the book shelf to check the jacket notes etc. The book was her first novel and was published in 2001. Rachel is, as far as I am aware, a jew and wrote the novel which contains three stories about Germans.

The third story, called Micha, is about a German guy who investigates his grandfather's escapades in the second world war, only to find that he was part of the Einsatzgruppen, and was basically a jew shooter. I read it when it came out all those years ago and will do so again just to see if any little snippets of gold are to be found. I assume she did plenty of research so it will be interesting to look at it again.
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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby NSDAP » 1 year 8 months ago (Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:10 am)

I can see that the Einsatzgruppen were used to protect the army from Partisans and did commit atrocities due to fear, orders and confusion. The horror that eludes us to explain is the massacre at Lidice after the assassination of SS-Obergruppenführer
Heydrich. The deaths of 340 people is not comparable to what the Allies did in Dresden or what the US did with their Atomic bombs, but no amount of soul searching can justify this action. If anyone can help that would be appreciated.
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memorial at Lidice
Image
the murdered kids
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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Hannover » 1 year 8 months ago (Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:03 pm)

NSDAP wrote:I can see that the Einsatzgruppen were used to protect the army from Partisans and did commit atrocities due to fear, orders and confusion. The horror that eludes us to explain is the massacre at Lidice after the assassination of SS-Obergruppenführer
Heydrich. The deaths of 340 people is not comparable to what the Allies did in Dresden or what the US did with their Atomic bombs, but no amount of soul searching can justify this action. If anyone can help that would be appreciated.

1. children were not murdered, the claim is 100% BS, the statue is pure propaganda
see:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8960&p=68593&hilit=lidice+children#p68593
2, the men shot were considered to be in league with communist terrorists / 'partisans' who executed the murder of Heydrich, not exactly nice, but quite different from the propaganda spread about Lidice
3. in spite of what many are led to believe, the men shot were not Jews, there is no 'holocaust' connection
3. the numbers alleged have changed drastically and are extremely contradictory,

NSDAP, your Lidice information & photos are classic propaganda, easily debunked.
Wikipedia, I assume*

* Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

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It's correctly said: "There's no Business Like Shoah Business".
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby NSDAP » 1 year 8 months ago (Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:50 pm)

Thank you Hannover, I couldn't find any other material on Lidice except on the internet and most of the stuff just repeated what was on Wiki. Well the photos are real and obviously people there think something atrocious happened. I know that this apparent atrocity is not linked to the Holocaust directly, and each book I have read seems to have a different interpretation of the facts some of it as you said is myth and propaganda. The link between the men in the village and the agents who assassinated Heydrich appears to be tenuous at best though that didn't seem to bother the Reich authorities. I wouldn't mind some proper information on this event. I am going to try and get the official files on "Anthropoid", or perhaps some of them may be here.
Thank you for the link to the Lidice kids being located. Much appreciated.
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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Hektor » 1 year 7 months ago (Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:39 am)

NSDAP wrote:Thank you Hannover, I couldn't find any other material on Lidice except on the internet and most of the stuff just repeated what was on Wiki. Well the photos are real and obviously people there think something atrocious happened. I know that this apparent atrocity is not linked to the Holocaust directly, and each book I have read seems to have a different interpretation of the facts some of it as you said is myth and propaganda. The link between the men in the village and the agents who assassinated Heydrich appears to be tenuous at best though that didn't seem to bother the Reich authorities. I wouldn't mind some proper information on this event. I am going to try and get the official files on "Anthropoid", or perhaps some of them may be here.
Thank you for the link to the Lidice kids being located. Much appreciated.



What's mentioned in this thread is explicitly NOT put under the "Holocaust umbrella".
Reprisals for partisan attacks DID NOT require personal guilt of those being shot. The main purpose was to be a deterrent, not to punish the guilty.
Meanwhile the events or their "memory" have been loaded with propaganda, which makes it more difficult to find objective information on it.
Bear in mind that Lidice functions as a distraction from Czech atrocities against ethnic Germans during that period. And we're talking here about murder in the range of 400.000 people out of three or four million Germans which ultimately were expelled from the Sudetenland and the Protectorate.

I recall that it wasn't the Waffen-SS carrying out the reprisal, but Police of the Protectorate that did do so.

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Lamprecht » 6 months 2 weeks ago (Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:03 pm)

Just read this article, and made me think of this thread.

Medical Experimentation at Dachau
http://inconvenienthistory.com/10/4/6354

Here is a small excerpt from the article (my emphasis):
Malaria Experiments

The malaria experimentation at Dachau was performed by Dr. Klaus Karl Schilling, who was an internationally famous parasitologist. Dr. Schilling was ordered by Heinrich Himmler in 1936 to conduct medical research at Dachau for the purpose of immunizing individuals specifically against malaria. Dr. Schilling admitted to Dr. Larson that between 1936 and 1945 he inoculated some 2,000 prisoners with malaria. The medical supervisor at Dachau would select the people to be inoculated and then send this list of people to Berlin to be approved by a higher authority. Those who were chosen were then turned over to Dr. Schilling to conduct the medical experimentation.[2]

At the Doctors’ Trial it was determined that Dr. Schilling’s experiments were directly responsible for the deaths of 10 prisoners.[3] Dr. Charles Larson stated in his report concerning Dr. Schilling:

It was very difficult to know where to draw the line as to whether or not Dr. Schilling was a war criminal. Certainly he fell into that category inasmuch as he had subjected people involuntarily to experimental malaria inoculations, which, even though they did not produce many deaths, could very well have produced serious illness in many of the patients. He defended himself by saying he did all this work by order from higher authority; in fact, Himmler himself.

In my report, I wrote: “In view of all he has told me, this man, in my opinion, should be considered a war criminal, but that he should be permitted to write up the results of his experiments and turn them over to Allied medical personnel for what they are worth. Dr. Schilling is an eminent scientist of world-wide renown who has conducted a most important group of experiments; their value cannot properly be ascertained until he has put them into writing for medical authorities to study. The criminal acts have already been committed, and since they have been committed, if it were possible to derive some new knowledge concerning immunity to malaria from these acts, it would yet be another crime not to permit this man to finish documenting the results of his years of research.”

But my attempt to save Dr. Schilling’s life failed. Our High Command felt it had to make a public example of him—most of the other high-ranking Nazis connected with Dachau had already been executed—and made his wife watch the hanging. I did everything I could to stop it. I implored our military government not to pass sentence on him until he’d had a fair hearing, because I was just beginning to win his confidence, and get through to him. Looking back, I am sure that the execution of Dr. Schilling deprived the world of some very valuable scientific information—no matter how distasteful his research and experimentation may have been.[4]

Dr. Larson concluded in regard to Dr. Schilling: “…Dr. Schilling, who was 72 [actually 74], should have lived. He never tried to run. He stayed in Dachau and made a full statement of his work to me; he cooperated in every way, and was the only one who told the truth…”[5]


Basically, this nazi doctor committed "war crimes" according to American Dr. Larson. Dr. Larson is famous for having conducted thousands of autopsies at Dachau and other western-liberated camps, confirming that none of the prisoners were killed by gassing, basically all disease/starvation. Regardless, Larson said that these criminal experiments with malaria possibly resulted in useful knowledge for doctors, and that the nazi doctor should be allowed to live so he can document the results. Despite Dr. Larson's pleas, Dr. Shilling was executed, and that knowledge was lost. :|


Related topics:

Alleged Nazi Medical Experiments
viewtopic.php?t=3974

'Meticulously kept medical experiment records'
viewtopic.php?t=5210

Autopsies
viewtopic.php?t=6513
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
-- Herbert Spencer

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Breker » 6 months 2 weeks ago (Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:49 pm)

The Allies were much, much worse.

US Navy tested mustard gas on its own sailors: In 1943 the Americans used humans in secret experiments
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 97508.html

US A-Bomb Experiments: We Were Guinea Pigs': Soldiers Explain What Nuclear Bomb Blasts Feel Like
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti ... -feel-like

US A-Bomb Experiments: Veterans of Atomic Test Blasts: No Warning, and Late Amends
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/30/us/v ... mends.html

Testing Allied weapons on German & Japanese villages
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/master/pnp/habsha ... 68data.pdf

Secret US World War II Chemical Experiments on US Troops
https://www.npr.org/2015/06/22/41519476 ... xperiments
B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Hektor » 6 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:37 am)

Breker wrote:....
Testing Allied weapons on German & Japanese villages
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/master/pnp/habsha ... 68data.pdf
....



It seems the "German village" is a testing site in the US.

Some place they modeled after a German village and tested biological, chemical and incendiary weapons on.

I wonder what chemical or biological warfare the Allied used, except the spread of typhus bugs that is:
https://archive.org/details/ReportFromP ... WarTwo1943

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Breker » 6 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:14 pm)

Hektor wrote:
Breker wrote:....
Testing Allied weapons on German & Japanese villages
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/master/pnp/habsha ... 68data.pdf
....

It seems the "German village" is a testing site in the US.
Some place they modeled after a German village and tested biological, chemical and incendiary weapons on.
Well yes.
And that testing was put into practice on real German civilian targets.
Pretty sick stuff.
Why was that not considered a war crime, an atrocity?
B.
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