Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby hermod » 5 years 1 day ago (Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:38 am)

Werd wrote:If Soviets can rape, why not Germans?


The Germans couldn't rape. There were severe punishments, including death penalties, for the German soldiers doing such things. And Wehrmacht brothels were established in occupied countries to avoid such things.

Why always the Soviet mass rapes of WW2? The U.S. 'liberators' also raped a lot during WW2, and not only in Germany.

And there is the usual issue of evidential standards. Why bring the testimony of a Pole who could have said as well that he saw an alien kidnap his sister and mix her DNA with octopus DNA for fun? What is the testimony above supposed to prove? That lie doesn't exist and testimonies alone ever had any probative value?
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Werd » 5 years 1 day ago (Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:20 pm)

"The Germans couldn't rape. There were severe punishments, including death penalties, for the German soldiers doing such things. And Wehrmacht brothels were established in occupied countries to avoid such things."

The fact that punishements occured, proves that some rapes did in fact happen. You are very naive to think every rape was known about and punished.

"And there is the usual issue of evidential standards. Why bring the testimony of a Pole who could have said as well that he saw an alien kidnap his sister and mix her DNA with octopus DNA for fun? What is the testimony above supposed to prove? That lie doesn't exist and testimonies alone ever had any probative value?"

What I quoted was the testimony of a German who worked in the Wermacht in the Waraw ghetto and saw many nazi excesses that obviously never got punished.

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Breker » 5 years 22 hours ago (Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:56 pm)

Werd wrote:What I quoted was the testimony of a German who worked in the Wermacht in the Waraw ghetto and saw many nazi excesses that obviously never got punished.
And what "excesses" were those? Please give this forum verifiable information rather than propaganda claiming that some German supposedly said whatever, umm ... "testimony". Thank you, Mr. Werd.
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Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby hermod » 5 years 21 hours ago (Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:48 pm)

Werd wrote:"The Germans couldn't rape. There were severe punishments, including death penalties, for the German soldiers doing such things. And Wehrmacht brothels were established in occupied countries to avoid such things."

The fact that punishements occured, proves that some rapes did in fact happen. You are very naive to think every rape was known about and punished.


Of course some rapes happened, as they did in every war and by every army in human history. I only found that your comment sounded as if German soldiers were allowed to rape women in occupied territories, what was not the case.


"And there is the usual issue of evidential standards. Why bring the testimony of a Pole who could have said as well that he saw an alien kidnap his sister and mix her DNA with octopus DNA for fun? What is the testimony above supposed to prove? That lie doesn't exist and testimonies alone ever had any probative value?"

What I quoted was the testimony of a German who worked in the Wermacht in the Waraw ghetto and saw many nazi excesses that obviously never got punished.


A German testimony or a Polish testimony, that changes nothing to what I've written in my previous comment. Testimonies are only sequences of words without any intrinsic probative value. I find that most Anglo-Saxons rely too much on testimonies as gullible children who don't know yet that a thing called "lie" exists. It seems that any extorted 'confession' or testimony from anybody sounds like an undeniable proof to them. Weird...
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Hektor » 4 years 11 months ago (Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:03 am)

Rapes also happen in peace time. The question is whether they're widespread, are they punished, etc.?

Anyway, found some other allegations. "Germans massacring Colonial troops" in France:
http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=24173
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23970
Are those legit, Evidence?

I suspect that this may have a completely different (rape, looting, torturing prisoners to death - for which Colonial troops had a reputation) background then we are told. This may mutate into a subject for the WW2 revisionism forum.

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Hannover » 4 years 11 months ago (Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:15 pm)

Hektor,
There is nothing to substantiate the assertions that say the Germans massacred blacks. And why do supremacist Jews, and those that profit from bowing down to them, make the false charges? That's an easy question to answer. It's really part of the conditioning efforts which attempts to make the preposterous 'holocaust' storyline more believable. It goes something like, 'See the horrible acts Germans committed against blacks. That demented mindset allowed the extermination of Jews'.
IOW, its a set-up. Much like discussing the T4 program, which was a legal, humane German euthanasia program which actually stopped horrific suffering and was not exclusive to Germans, hardly. From the T4 program, the same people make the claims that it was a precursor to the "Holocaust".

The facts are that since the 'holocaust' storyline is utterly impossible, smoke-and-mirror distractions like 'black massacres', 'extermination of gypsies & homosexuals', fabrications are required in attempting to maintain Jewish supremacist power & enormous profit. It's an attempt to buy votes, so to speak. Revisionists will have nothing of such nonsense. And we back it up.
recommended:
'The Myth of Nazi Extermination of Homosexuals'
http://www.cwporter.com/homo.htm
homosexuals - Yad Vashem mistake? - Or is the Prof a Denier?
the Gypsy 'extermination' Big Lie debunked
Mattogno and the Gypsies
Gypsy charade at Auschwitz
more of the homosexuals canard / Jews attack gay 'memorial'

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The tide is turning.


- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Hektor » 4 years 11 months ago (Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:11 pm)

Agreed Hanover. But it's about specific alleged massacres in France, which still would have to be proven anyway.
The Black Colonial troop had a reputation for looting and raping among other brutalities. Even Franz Fanon mentions this in his books.
Hence my educated guess is that the Germans shot some looters and rapists and their foes now construct a "massacre" motivated by "racism" from this.
There is private footage of Black POW's, which show that they were humanely treated by the Germans.
Image
https://archive.org/details/PanzerjaegerImFronteinsatz

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Werd » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:58 am)

In a debate on rodoh with Nessie about the sources MGK use to prove resettlement, Nessie claims that the Jews were simply moved to other ghettos and then liquidated.

Nessie wrote:Destinations cited by Mattogno, Kues and Graf

http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/28-tecoar-long.pdf

"Pinsk and the Rokitno district (20/10/41, 23/10/41, 7/1/43),
the Taganrog-Kharkov front (26/3/42), Kishinev (16/10/42),
Smolensk district (22/10/42), Jassy (Iași) en route to Transnistria (1/11/42),
(plans to deport Norwegian Jews to) Lithuania (6/11/42),
Riga (20/11/42, 28/12/44), Rovno district
in western Ukraine (22/12/42), Minsk district (21/11/43, 23/11/43),
Dvinsk (Daugavpils) (9/7/44), Kaunas (Kovno) (16/8/44, 20/8/44),
Kretinga (22/8/44)/ In other news reports we also find mentioned Vilni-
us (Vilna) (Judisk Krönika, issue of May/June 1944, p. 68) and Ocha-
kov/Oceacov in Transnistria"

A google search finds what the supposed resettlement involved

Pinsk - ghetto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi%C5%84sk_Ghetto
Rokitno - ghetto http://digitalassets.ushmm.org/photoarchives/detail.aspx?id=1143409
Taganrog - massacredhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taganrog_during_World_War_II#Genocide_at_Gully_of_Petrushino
Kharkov - ghetto http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/righteous/stories/historical_background/kharkov.asp
Kishinev - ghetto http://www.uapress.ua.edu/product/Kishinev-Ghetto-19411942,6125.aspx
Smolensk - massacred http://www.jta.org/1942/11/24/archive/2000-jews-recently-executed-in-smolensk-russian-guerrilla-reveals
Jazzy to Transinistra - massacred http://www.jta.org/1942/11/24/archive/2000-jews-recently-executed-in-smolensk-russian-guerrilla-reveals
Riga - ghetto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riga_Ghetto
Rovno - massacred, ghetto http://ww2today.com/13th-july-1942-horror-of-the-liquidation-of-the-rovno-ghetto
Minsk - ghetto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_Ghetto
Dvinsk -ghetto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daugavpils_Ghetto
Kaunas - ghetto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kovno_Ghetto
Kretinga - massacred http://www.seligman.org.il/kretinga_holocaust.html
Vilnius (Vilna) - ghetto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilna_Ghetto
Ochakov/Oceacov - ghetto http://www.holocaustrevealed.org/Romania/Matatias/Transnistria5.htm

So the answer is imprisonment and death.

I should add that the MGK bit Nessie quotes comes from section 7.2 A “Handful” of Vague News Reports?.

The “handful of wartime news sources” presented so far include about a dozen newspapers, journals and news agency bulletins, and the number of individual news items number more than 60. As for the claim that the “actual destinations” of the deportees are specified only “very rarely,” the some 35 items1338 from JTA Daily News Bulletin describing deportations or the presence of deported Jews in the Occupied Eastern Territories mention the following destinations: Pinsk and the Rokitno district (20/10/41, 23/10/41, 7/1/43), the Taganrog-Kharkov front (26/3/42), Kishinev (16/10/42), Smolensk district (22/10/42), Jassy (Iași) en route to Transnistria (1/11/42), (plans to deport Norwegian Jews to) Lithuania (6/11/42), Riga (20/11/42, 28/12/44), Rovno district in western Ukraine (22/12/42), Minsk district (21/11/43, 23/11/43), Dvinsk (Daugavpils) (9/7/44), Kaunas (Kovno) (16/8/44, 20/8/44), Kretinga (22/8/44)/ In other news reports we also find mentioned Vilnius (Vilna) (Judisk Krönika, issue of May/June 1944, p. 68) and Ochakov/ Oceacov in Transnistria (Contemporary Jewish Record, June 1943, p. 300).

The unreliability of the news reports is also supposedly demonstrated by the fact that the same news sources

“changed their conclusions as more information was made available to them. The American Jewish Yearbook, one source which MGK quote-mine and distort in their works, focused more and more on the Nazi extermination policy against the Jews as time went on. The Judisk Krönika similarly described Nazi killings of Jews later in the war through shooting as well as gassing, as Kues admits (but, of course, disagrees with).” (p. 244)

One might just as well argue differently: As Germany’s defeat in the war drew ever closer, cautious and interrogative coverage of the enemy became rarer and increasingly greater credence was given in the western press to propaganda reports such as those issued by the Polish-Jewish underground and the Soviets. To give just a few samples of the “information” “made available” to one of these publications (besides the falsehood-ridden “Auschwitz protocol”), volume 46 (1944-1945) of American Jewish Year Book spoke (on p. 220) of Belgian-Jewish children who had been “gassed at Brasschaet, north of Antwerp,” claimed that the liquidation of the Łódż ghetto had begun in January 1944 “with the massacre of 20,000 Jews in one day.” (p. 242) – although the liquidation of the ghetto did not commence until half a year later – that the= Soviets had discovered “thousands of Jews […] drowned in the oil wells around the city of Maikop” in Caucasia (p. 246) as well as “the corpses of 30,000 Jews who had been drowned, by the fleeing Nazis, in flooded coal mines” in the city of Schachty, near Rostov (p. 247).


Also notice how MGK use some of those reports to talk about resettlement. One example: Rovno district in western Ukraine (22/12/42). Yet according to nessie's source, it was liquidated with bullets in July 1943.

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Werd » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:38 pm)

Another example.

Destinations cited by Mattogno, Kues and Graf
Smolensk district (22/10/42)

Nessie.



And another example.

Destinations cited by Mattogno, Kues and Graf
the Taganrog-Kharkov front (26/3/42)

Nessie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taganrog_during_World_War_II#Genocide_at_Gully_of_Petrushino

From wikipedia.
On October 29, 1941 all Jews of Taganrog (around 2,500 people) were gathered on Vladimirskaya Plaza, promptly registered at the building of the school no.27 in front of Vladimirskaya Plaza and taken by trucks to the Gully of Petrushino near the Beriev Aircraft Factory, where they were shot to death by Schutzmannschaft collaborators under control of Otto Ohlendorf's Einsatzgruppe D. Of all the Jewish children who lived in Taganrog in 1941 only a 14-year old boy Volodya Kobrin (Russian: Кобрин, Владимир Моисеевич) managed to escape certain death thanks to the help of various people in Taganrog, and especially Anna Mikhailovna Pokrovskaya, who was awarded the title of Righteous among the Nations by Professor Alisa Shenar, Ambassador of Israel in Russia on July 19, 1996.[5]

On August 21, 1943, one week prior to Taganrog's liberation by the Red Army, 80 citizens (workers, women and young people) were shot to death on the seashore of Gulf of Taganrog, on Spit of Petrushino.[6]

According to the information of the State Archive, some 7,000 Taganrogers (1,500 of them children of various age) were shot to death in the Gully of Petrushino.[7]

Faked? Or real and an example of an unnecessary nazi atrocity? If the latter, then perhaps Mattogno, Graf and Kues have failed to follow up on the details of these transports to places that ultimately ended in their executions?

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Dresden » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:29 pm)

Werd said:

"In a debate on rodoh with Nessie about the sources MGK use to prove resettlement, Nessie claims that the Jews were simply moved to other ghettos and then liquidated"
--------------------------------------------------------
Nessie wrote:

Destinations cited by Mattogno, Kues and Graf

http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/28-tecoar-long.pdf

"Pinsk and the Rokitno district (20/10/41, 23/10/41, 7/1/43),
the Taganrog-Kharkov front (26/3/42), Kishinev (16/10/42),
Smolensk district (22/10/42), Jassy (Iași) en route to Transnistria (1/11/42),
(plans to deport Norwegian Jews to) Lithuania (6/11/42),
Riga (20/11/42, 28/12/44), Rovno district
in western Ukraine (22/12/42), Minsk district (21/11/43, 23/11/43),
Dvinsk (Daugavpils) (9/7/44), Kaunas (Kovno) (16/8/44, 20/8/44),
Kretinga (22/8/44)/ In other news reports we also find mentioned Vilni-
us (Vilna) (Judisk Krönika, issue of May/June 1944, p. 68) and Ocha-
kov/Oceacov in Transnistria"

A google search finds what the supposed resettlement involved

Pinsk - ghetto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi%C5%84sk_Ghetto
Rokitno - ghetto http://digitalassets.ushmm.org/photoarc ... id=1143409
Taganrog - massacredhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T ... Petrushino
Kharkov - ghetto http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/righteou ... harkov.asp
Kishinev - ghetto http://www.uapress.ua.edu/product/Kishi ... ,6125.aspx
Smolensk - massacred http://www.jta.org/1942/11/24/archive/2 ... la-reveals
Jazzy to Transinistra - massacred http://www.jta.org/1942/11/24/archive/2 ... la-reveals
Riga - ghetto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riga_Ghetto
Rovno - massacred, ghetto http://ww2today.com/13th-july-1942-horr ... vno-ghetto
Minsk - ghetto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_Ghetto
Dvinsk -ghetto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daugavpils_Ghetto
Kaunas - ghetto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kovno_Ghetto
Kretinga - massacred http://www.seligman.org.il/kretinga_holocaust.html
Vilnius (Vilna) - ghetto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilna_Ghetto
Ochakov/Oceacov - ghetto http://www.holocaustrevealed.org/Romani ... stria5.htm

So the answer is imprisonment and death.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Werd said:

"Also notice how MGK use some of those reports to talk about resettlement. One example: Rovno district in western Ukraine (22/12/42). Yet according to nessie's source, it was liquidated with bullets in July 1943"

In another comment, Werd gives more examples of "Nessie's" sources that supposedly refute Mattogno, Graf, and Kues.

When all of "Nessie's" sources are read, one is struck by what they all have in common:

1. All the "stories" read exactly like atrocity propaganda.
2. Some of them sound like something you would read in a comic book or a novel.
3. They all end the same way; that is:
4. Not a single post-war investigation, even though the exact locations are known!
5. No photographs, no films.
6. No autopsies.
7. No mass graves exhumed.
8. Of the sources that mention "mass graves", when you click on the footnote and go to the cited "source", it's usually a completely unrelated article that says NOTHING about mass graves or an investigation.
9. The Wikipedia articles that "Nessie" cites that have "War crimes trial and evidence" show nothing but post-war Soviet created "documents" or German documents that are ambiguous; the only physical proof that was presented at Nuremberg was "soap", "lampshades", and "shrunken heads".
10. Smoke and mirrors.

Werd said:

"Faked? Or real and an example of an unnecessary nazi atrocity? If the latter, then perhaps Mattogno, Graf and Kues have failed to follow up on the details of these transports to places that ultimately ended in their executions?"

It's all fake, Werd!
Didn't you read "Nessie's" sources?
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Werd » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:40 pm)

I read some. This one stuck out.
One example: Rovno district in western Ukraine (22/12/42). Yet according to nessie's source, it was liquidated with bullets in July 1943.

"Hermann Graebe was the local representative of the construction firm of Josef Jung which employed around 100 Jewish workers who lived in the Rovno ghetto. "

Hermann testified he went to an SS man telling him to keep quiet about the planned executions that were coming. He testified at Nuremburg in an Einsatzgruppen case in 1947. But you raise an interesting point that could be applied to this one as well. Bodies and autopsies appear to be lacking.

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Dresden » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:28 pm)

Werd said:

"Hermann testified he went to an SS man telling him to keep quiet about the planned executions that were coming. He testified at Nuremburg in an Einsatzgruppen case in 1947"

Nuremberg was a farce; by 1947 many National Socialists had already been assassinated after their show trials.
Hermann could have said anything during a "trial"; maybe he feared for his family, who knows?

"But you raise an interesting point that could be applied to this one as well. Bodies and autopsies appear to be lacking"

Yes, that's the "key" to ALL of the show trials; not a scrap of physical evidence.

"Nessie" is a full-time, payed Hasbarat troll.
He feels comfortable at RODOH.
I don't think he appreciates you airing his dirty laundry here at CODOH where we ask for proof instead of "Jewish fables".

Ask "Nessie" if he has a reference to any photographs or films of investigations a la Katyn?
Any mass grave exhumations, photos of corpses, autopsies?.....and see how quickly he changes the subject.
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby Werd » 4 years 8 months ago (Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:59 pm)

https://www.rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic. ... 167#p57167
theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:56 am

Duke Umeroffen wrote:Making the trivial observations of Black rabbit in which we see him taking the rise by picking as usual the lowest of the hanging fruit; oddly captioned images or truncated photogr. such as a famous ill. of a woman with her child being shot in Ivangorod (moving away from sympathy v antipathy but centring on empathy) pale utterly into complete, nonentital, insignifficance.


That's not what Robert Frisk sees in the image:

Image

It may be – look at the picture carefully – that the soldier is actually shooting at the four men and that one of the other two rifle barrels is firing at the woman with the child. The shadows on the ground to the left suggest there may have been many more killers shooting at that moment.


He continues:

Incredibly, when the photograph was used in a book published by the Soviet-installed Polish communist regime after the war, a right-wing West German newspaper, Deutsche Soldaten Zeitung, ran a headline above it "Achtung Fälschung" (beware falsification). The man pointing the rifle towards the young woman and her child was not wearing German uniform or using a German rifle, the paper said. A certain Professor Otto Croy accused the Poles of fabricating the photograph for propaganda.

Then, mercifully, up popped a former member of Hitler's Einsatzgruppen, the "special action" squads used to murder a million Jews in Ukraine. The soldier in the picture is wearing German Einsatzgruppen uniform, he said, and holding the usual Einsatzgruppen rifle. What more proof do you need? Years later, an exhibition of German atrocity photographs in Eastern Europe was put on in Dresden where an old man stared at the pictures for a long time. Then he began to cry. And as he rushed from the exhibition hall, he shouted: "It's me...It's me."




Guilty conscience?

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 4 years 8 months ago (Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:10 pm)

Frisk was relying on Janina Struck's Private Pictures: Soldiers' Inside View of War (2011) for that article Werd. I ordered a copy over the weekend, so hopefully I'll be able to at least learn of her sources this coming week.

I personally have never taken any interest in uniforms and insignia of the various military/police uniforms of pre-war/war-time Germany, but whoever wrote this seemingly informative AHF post, states that there was no one "German Einsatzgruppen uniform":
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=1084917&sid=a6867e47e7418dbec71b9489cd371d09#p1084917

And the story of the old man fleeing the Dresden exhibition in tears, sounds like the corniest of aggadic tales.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Legitimate Nazi Atrocities

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 4 years 8 months ago (Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:43 pm)

I received my copy of Janina Struck's Private Pictures: Soldiers' Inside View of War , which I must say seems a very well researched book.

The tale of the old man in Dresden is mentioned but Struck doesn't claim the elderly man was looking at the photo in question. She writes that at the Dresden leg (c. January 1998) of the notoriously deceitful 'War of Extermination. The Crimes of the Wehrmacht' travelling exhibition:

In the former East German city of Dresden, an elderly man stood alone staring at the pictures for a long time before he quietly began to cry. As he rushed out of the exhibition he shouted, 'It's me...it's me.' His identity is not known. (p. 95)


Struck's source for this tale is:

Author's interview with Petra Bopp [Hamburg, November 2006]. (p.185)


Petra Bopp was the coordinator exhibition.



Frisk mentions that he spoke with Struck (in late 2011), and perhaps it was then she recalled that Bopp had told her (in late 2006) that at the Dresden exhibition (in early 1998) the unidentified old man had been looking at this particular photo. That's plausible, but it doesn't lend any credibility to the already unlikely story told by the woman who coordinated this deceitful exhibition.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney


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