Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby cold beer » 5 years 11 months ago (Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:46 pm)

Oh so that's who Caroline Sturdy Colls is.
I wish this documentary was available online.

Did they find ground disturbance that would match the claim that large pit were excavated?

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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby borjastick » 5 years 11 months ago (Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:49 am)

cold beer it is available online I believe. If you go to the channel 5 website and download their on demand feature it's available there. If you are outside UK you will need a 'cloak' such as www.expatshield.com.
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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby Hannover » 5 years 11 months ago (Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:28 pm)

Examples below of Jews who were transited out of Treblinka, which demolishes the entire 'death camp' canard marketed by Colls and the remaining irrational religious believers. This is too easy.

- Hannover

from: AR Survivors / Treblinka
1. Deportations of Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto (1942)

The facts and circumstantial evidence assembled so far lead to the conclusion that Treblinka was mainly a transit camp established for the Jewish population of the Warsaw district, which fits within the framework of National Socialist policy of the resettlement of Jews to the east. The verifiable deportations to Treblinka can be explained in this sense.

One of these Jews, a Samuel Zylbersztajn, was in fact deported to Majdanek on April 30, 1943, from the alleged extermination camp Treblinka as a member of a transport of 308 Jews.[869] The translated title of the report of his experiences is "The Memoirs of an Inmate of Ten Camps." After the 'extermination camp' Treblinka, Zylbersztajn also survived the 'extermination camp' Majdanek and eight 'ordinary' concentration camps; he is thus living proof of the fact that the Germans did not systematically exterminate their Jewish prisoners.

Another 356 Jews were transferred from Treblinka to Majdanek on May 13, 1943.[870] The Jewish historians Tatiana Berenstein and Adam Rutkowski write in reference to this:[871]

"Some of the transports from Warsaw reached Lublin by way of Treblinka, where the selection of the deportees took place."

This fact is confirmed by some witnesses who were interrogated within the framework of the extradition proceedings against John Demjanjuk in the USA. In the official compilations of the interrogations,[872] which we have in our possession, the names of the witnesses have been rendered unreadable, so that we refer to the respective date, on which the interrogation occurred.

Interrogation of December 12, 1979: The witness was deported in April 1943 from Warsaw to Treblinka. On the next day he was transferred to Majdanek, where he spent 6-7 days; afterward he went to Budzyn for approximately a year. From Budzyn he was sent to Wieliczka (in the vicinity of Krakow), from there to Flossenbürg in mid-1944, and finally to Leitmeritz.

Interrogation of December 17, 1979: the witness was deported from Krakow to Płaszów, and from there to Auschwitz. After that he went to Oranienburg and finally to Flossenbürg. He stated that he spent one single day in Treblinka without giving details.

Interrogation of January 3, 1980: the witness was taken prisoner in May 1943 in Warsaw and sent directly to Majdanek, from where he was later transferred to Budzyn.

Interrogation of March 7, 1980: The witness was deported in April 1943 from Warsaw to Treblinka, where he remained for only one day; afterwards he was transferred along with 180 other prisoners to Majdanek. After two days the trip continued to Budzyn, where he spent two years. He was liberated by the Soviets from an unnamed German concentration camp.

Interrogation of March 11, 1980: the witness was sent to Treblinka in April 1943, where he remained for only a day. Transfer to Majdanek, thence to Budzyn, where he was interned for about a year. Liberated on May 5, 1945, from Mauthausen.

Interrogation of July 18, 1980: the witness was deported on April 18, 1943, from Warsaw to Majdanek. After 5 weeks he went to Auschwitz and then - toward the end of 1944 - to Gusen (a subcamp of Mauthausen) where he was liberated.

The verdict of the Jury Court of Düsseldorf determined, plainly and clearly, on September 3, 1965, that
"coming from Treblinka, several thousand people are said to have arrived at other camps."[873]

Also, the transport with 1,200 children (originally intended for Palestine[887]) between 6 and 12 years of age, which arrived in Theresienstadt on August 24,[888] traveled by way of Treblinka, which therefore served as a transit camp for these transports.

[869] Samuel Zylbersztajn, "Pamiętnik więznia dziesięciu obozów," in: Biuletyn Żydowskiego Instytutu Historycznego w Polsce, no. 68, 1968, pp. 53-56. The author explicitly gives April 30, 1943, as the date of his deportation to Treblinka.
[870] T. Mencel (ed.), Majdanek 1941-1944, Wydawnictwo Lubelskie, Lublin 1991, p. 448.
[871] Tatiana Berenstein, Adam Rutkowski, "Zydzi w obozie koncentracijnym Majdanek (1941-1944)," Biuletyn Żydowskiego Instytutu Historycznego w Polsce, No. 58, 1966, p. 16.
[872] U.S. Department of Justice. Criminal Division. Office of Investigation. Report of Investigation. Subject "Demjanjuk Ivan, Fedorenko Feodor." These protocols were enclosed with the documents in the Jerusalem Demjanjuk Trial (State of Israel vs. Ivan [John] Demjanjuk. Criminal Case No. 373/86 in the Jerusalem District Court; cf. Chapter V). We thank Dr. Miroslav Dragan who made these documents available to us.
[873] Rückerl, NS-Vernichtungslager..., op. cit. (note 62), p. 198.
[887] Brona Klibanski, "Kinder aus dem Ghetto Białystok in Teresienstadt", in: Theresienstädter Studien und Dokumente, 1995, p. 93.
[888] Terezisnká pametni kniha, op. cit. (note 570), p. 70. There a figure of 1220 Jews who arrived in Theresienstadt from Białystok is given. Obviously 20 adults who accompanied the children are included in this.

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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby EtienneSC » 5 years 10 months ago (Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:17 pm)

I have been going through the CSC documentary shown in November 2013 to collect screen shots of some of the LIDAR images of Treblinka 2 (the alleged death camp). The LIDAR technology is used to show the ground without tree cover. There is more information about LIDAR here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidar
The screen images below are small but can be enlarged by clicking on them.

The first three shots are from the first seven minutes of the documentary. This first shot shows the boundary of Treblinka 2 from the air (without LIDAR):
CSC_Treblinka_1.PNG

I assume the long line on the left parallel to the camp boundary and sloping to the right is the railway siding.
This second shot shows the lower half of the camp in LIDAR:
CSC_Treblinka_2_Lidar.PNG

This third shot shows a close up of the second LIDAR with a white circle highlighting an alleged gas chamber (this being assumed as it is a "large depression"):
CSC_Treblinka_3_Lidarcloseup.PNG

The following two snapshots are from 26-28 minutes into the documentary. The first is another non-LIDAR image of Treblinka 2:
CSC_Treblinka_4_T2nonLIDAR.PNG

The second is a LIDAR image of Treblinka 2:
CSC_Trelinka_T2_LIDAR.PNG

The oblong highlighted in blue is the possible site of the second (i.e. later and larger) gas chambers according to witness testimony, near which the team dug two exploratory trenches but found nothing but sand. CSC's conclusion was "At the end of the day, we just keep looking." However, remains of another building were found, as noted in contributions above.
This is a close up of the blue highlighted area, described as "in an open area, close to the memorial":
CSC_Trelinka_T2_LIDARcloseup.PNG

In general, it is evident that there are lines and oblong shapes within the area of Treblinka 2 which are highly likely to be the result of human activity. However, the nature or purpose of the activity is not evident from casual visual inspection of 2D images. In places the ground looks pockmarked, as if by bomb craters. There is also different textures (smooth versus uneven) in the ground which I cannot interpret. It is notable that there is no reference in the documentary to the "ground penetrating radar" that was mentioned in connection with CSC's doctoral thesis.

There are probably some further screen shots that might contain useful information, particularly one of the enlarged dimensions CSC attributes to Treblinka 2. The task I suppose is to relate these shots to the plans and wartime photos of the area. The following reproduces a 1944 photograph (sourced from Wikipedia & in the public domain) with supposed structures from the Laponder model overlaid in color. The supposed burial pits are in yellow on the right and the cross represents the gas chamber:
Treblinka_II_aerial_photo_1944.jpg

This has to be rotated 90' to compare with the screen shots. Comparing it with the LIDAR images, there is no sign of burial pits where they are alleged on the Laponder model, though there are rectangular and other irregular shapes in other parts of the area that would merit investigation. From the voiceover in the documentary, it seems that the idea of burial pits may simply be silently abandoned with the only relevant remarks referring to scattering of remains in undisclosed locations.
Last edited by EtienneSC on Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby hermod » 5 years 10 months ago (Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:32 am)

Image

2 suspicious things I've noticed while looking at a picture of one the Treblinka terracotta tiles. That made me wonder if those tiles weren't planted there.


Too clean

As terracotta is porous, most people gardening and using clay pots know that dirt and salts (from fertilizers but also from the soil) penetrate terracotta and leave unaesthetic marks and crust on it (see the picture below). No such marks can be seen on the Treblinka terrocotta tiles. After more than 70 years underground, that's pretty surprising

Image


Angular fracture

An angular fracture is the sign of a recent fracture because fractures are supposed to be smoothed by time and corrosion, even when underground. That's a criterion used by Italian archeologists to detect fake excavated art objects.

Almost all terracotta vases are found as potsherds in excavations.

The edges of old cracks in excavated pottery have been smoothed by time and corrosion (7). Sharp-edged cracks point to recent damage and therefore a fake object (8).

Image
(7)

Image
(8)

http://www.excavatedartauthenticity.com/



Fake archeological artifacts are far from rare. You can even buy some on eBay...

http://archive.archaeology.org/online/f ... riors.html

http://archive.archaeology.org/0905/etc/insider.html

There was recent dispute after a German museum discovered the Chinese "Terracotta Warriors" displayed were fake.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 23341.html

Archeological forgery is about as old as archeology itself...
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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby EtienneSC » 5 years 10 months ago (Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:32 am)

hermod wrote: 2 suspicious things I've noticed while looking at a picture of one the Treblinka terracotta tiles. That made me wonder if those tiles weren't planted there.

As terracotta is porous, most people gardening and using clay pots know that dirt and salts (from fertilizers but also from the soil) penetrate terracotta and leave unaesthetic marks and crust on it (see the picture below). No such marks can be seen on the Treblinka terrocotta tiles. After more than 70 years underground, that's pretty surprising

An angular fracture is the sign of a recent fracture because fractures are supposed to be smoothed by time and corrosion, even when underground. That's a criterion used by Italian archeologists to detect fake excavated art objects.

These were supposedly buried in sand though. You'd have to compare them with things buried at the seaside to get a fair comparison.

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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby borjastick » 5 years 10 months ago (Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:36 pm)

You may be right EtienneSC but I remember watching this part in the programme and the camera didn't actually observe the exposure of the tiles, just the part where they were 'found' and removed from an already well dug pit. The sand looks moist so the moisture level would definitely have a bearing on their degradation over many years etc.

To be seen as impartial, which of course they are not, they should have shown the scraping away of the soil to reveal the tiles. In any case the massive jump from finding some masonry to announcing the bits amount to the gas chambers was one of this year's best TV moments, along with PM's questions, The Kardashians nonsense and Justin Bieber proving that money and brains are indeed strange bedfellows or even complete strangers.
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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby hermod » 5 years 10 months ago (Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:01 am)

EtienneSC wrote:These were supposedly buried in sand though. You'd have to compare them with things buried at the seaside to get a fair comparison.


Using things buried at the seaside is a bad idea because too much salt would penetrate terracotta and leave a big crust on it. As far as the angular fracture is concerned, sand is way more abrasive than mud. So the Treblinka terracotta tiles should be way more smoothed than artifacts buried in mud anyway.
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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 10 months ago (Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:46 am)

borjastick wrote:To be seen as impartial, which of course they are not, they should have shown the scraping away of the soil to reveal the tiles.

In itself this is not suspicious. It's pretty obvious it would have to be a reconstruction. The chances that they were filming live the very moment at which the tile was unearthed are pretty slim, unless they were filming everything all the time, which I doubt the Channel 4 budget ran to.

In any case the massive jump from finding some masonry to announcing the bits amount to the gas chambers was one of this year's best TV moments,...
Hmm. Yes, but that's how they work, isn't it? No one ever asks any awkward questions, so the general public just take it for granted, or if they have some residual personal doubts, just suppress them with feelings of guilt. The whole Sturdy-Colls enterprise has turned up just about didley-squat, yet it's presented as "proving the Deniers are wrong".

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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby borjastick » 5 years 10 months ago (Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:51 am)

Kingfisher I agree with your second point but not your first one.

The very essence of the programme was to film what they were doing and in this particular case they were digging a very small square hole in the ground. By the time the film crew did show something the hole was much deeper than the level of the tiles, which they supposedly unearthed. Further, Time Team has three days to dig for TV and they seem to record all the main issues. This bunch were working in a small space, with a film crew on hand and failed spectacularly to be awake enough to press the record button when asked to by the archeologists.

It could be a genuine cock up, in which case the film crew should go back to school, but I smell a rat here.
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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby Dolma » 5 years 10 months ago (Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:22 am)

Hello, I just received this. I haven't given it a good read yet, so I cannot comment on it at the moment, I'm just excited to get this posted here so it can be discussed. Hope that's OK with the moderators.

Treblinka: Inside Hitler's Secret Death Camp

First broadcast at 21:00 Nov 27, 2013

Documentary following a team of British archaeologists who have been granted unprecedented access to investigate and excavate Hitler's most notorious death camp, Treblinka in north east Poland, where more than 800,000 people were killed between 1942 and 1943.

Transcript

Narrator (N) - It's the beginning of an investigation into the crime of the 20th century. In 1942 the Nazis transported around '900,000' people to Treblinka. A Death Camp in eastern Poland. They disappeared without a trace. The camp was destroyed. Only a handful of eye-witnesses survived.

Seventy years later, a British forensic investigator attempts to uncover the truth about Hitler's secret extermination camp. Using state of the art aerial technology, new eye witnesses, and investigative technology, can Caroline Sturdy Colls uncover the brutal horror of Hitler's killing machine. Forensic archeologist Caroline Sturdy Colls is on her way to Treblinka to carry out a unique investigation. It's the climax of six years' work.

Caroline Sturdy Colls (C) - I work with the police forces investigating murder cases, and cases of missing individuals who may be buried, and it's the skill that I have learnt as part of this work, that I really do bring to this investigation of Treblinka.

N - Caroline has been given unprecedented access to excavate at Treblinka for the first time in seventy years, to discover the brutal mechanics of a Nazi death camp. Treblinka is 100 km north east of Warsaw. In 1941 the Nazis set up a penal camp, Treblinka 1, where by both Poles and Jews worked as slave labour. Six months later, as second camp, Treblinka 2, was set up, it's sole purpose was to kill Jews. The Nazis eradicated all evidence of their crimes, leaving no visible trace above the ground. For the first time ever, cutting edge aerial photography called LIDAR will help Caroline look at the truth beneath the surface. It's the beginning in the crucial phase into the investigation of Treblinka.

C - What LIDAR allows us to do is take all the vegetation away, so if I turn the layer off, I can literally strip the trees out. So if I turn that layer off, I can literally strip the tree out. So now what I'm seeing is the bare earth of Treblinka, something probably nobody's seen since the Nazis abandoned the site and before all these trees were planted. It's quite amazing to use that new technology, to see a landscape in a completely different perspective.

N - Eye witnesses and records suggest that up to '900,000' people were murdered by the Nazis in thirteen gas chambers at Treblinka 2. Caroline's mission is to find these gas chambers. Today the location of them is uncertain. No physical evidence for the gas chambers has ever been found. The LIDAR reveals an extraordinary landscape.

C - What's really catching my eye is this area here [Images 4 and 5], which shows a huge depression in the landscape. This is where I believe that the gas chambers are located.

N - Caroline needs to wait for final permission to excavate the gas chambers at T2. But the LIDAR has given her plenty of new targets at the labour camp, Treblinka 1. T1 was one of the networks of labour camps set up by the Nazis. Polish resistance fighters, dissidents, and Jews were sent there as slave labour. Caroline has long believed these camps were also places of large systematic murder. The LIDAR is pointing her towards some startling new evidence. It suggests there could be unknown mass graves to the south of T1, ten minutes walk through the forest, [Image 6 and 7]

C - Just because T1 was smaller. Just because T1 wasn't branded as an extermination camp. That doesn't make the crimes that happened there any better. It's the part of the site that gets completely forgotten, because everybody talks about the history of the death camp, and what I really want to show with my work is that actually Treblinka was one large landscape, that comprised of the death camp, the labour camp, and that all of these places in whatever form it took, the executions were all equally as brutal, and as equally as horrific as each other.

N - Working with Caroline are three other professional archeologists. Kevin from the U.K. Joanna from the Treblinka museum in the first trench. And in trench 2, Ivar from Holland, and Dean (Northfield), a forensic photographer.

The team works their way down cm by cm. as they sieve the earth and mud they document everything. After a back breaking five hours work, Kevin makes an unexpected discovery. [They found a leather shoe]

C - If this is the shoe of a person buried in a mass grave, then it's the first possession of someone buried here.

N - 20,000 poles were sent to Treblinka 1, men women and children. Over half of them were starved to death, tortured or shot. For Caroline and the team, Treblinka is a crime scene investigation. In trench 2 Ivar makes an even more sinister discovery.

C - What have you got?

Ivar (I) - It's a Jaw of what appears to be a small child. [Images 8, 9, and 10]

C - What could they have done to the Nazis to treat them this way?

C - Seeing all of this I just feel so angry. It's not just bones, It's a person. It's just horrible

N - The team decide to dig another trench, revealed by the LIDAR. [Image 11]

C - This whole landscape is part of Treblinka's killing machine essentially. This is an area where the Nazis came to find their crimes that they perpetrated.

N - Unsure if they have one body or more they continue to dig.

C - At the moment we still have only found a few fragments, so we still need to do some more work, to confirm whether or not we've got isolated bones or whether we've got a definite grave.

So we can see here there's a big cluster of bone that's just protruding out from the layer we dug down to so we need to be very careful around this end of the trench now. I think we should photograph it before we do anymore. [Image 12]

I would suggest that they are from different individuals. This one we see is much bigger than this one. We're not just dealing with adults. Some of the boys sent to these camps were 14, 15, 16 years old.

N - Caroline has tracked down one of those young boys. Miecyxyslaw Kowalczyk was 15 when he was sent to the penal camp in 1942, after being caught working for the Polish resistance. He's never spoke before publically about the horrors and brutality he witnessed at T1.

Translator for Kowalczyk - The sick and those that couldn't work would be locked up in a cage. Then at mid day two guards would come and take those prisoners to the slaughter house. There was a wooden hammer and a chisel in there. The guards would hit the prisoners in the head, causing them to collapse. If they had convulsions they hit them again. Sometimes the guards would stab people in the eye with a bayonet and twist it. Stab you in the side or even cut off your genitals just for fun. We knew we would die. No one was expected to survive.

N - After closing trenches 1 and 2, the team excavate into trench 3. After two hours, Ivar uncovers another find. But this one's different.

C - It's an elbow joint. So now we have bits of pelvis near arm bones and ribs in both ends of the trench.

Kevin (K) - There are a couple of marks on here. One of the cut marks carries on up there actually. That's probably why a bit of the bone has flaked away.

N - Miecyxyslaw Kowalczyk has a chilling explanation for these cuts.

Translator for Kowalczyk - We come back from work one day and everyone was lying on the ground. We were pushed to the ground as well. They'd found something on one of the men. They searched him but he got free and threw himself down the well. The Germans ordered him out. He refused. They lowered in a chain with a plank to sit on but he refused to get out. They pleaded with him, eventually telling him that he would be ok. Finally he agreed to be lifted out of the well. As soon as they got him they laid him down and chopped him up with an axe, while he was still alive.

N - After a day of excavating trench 3, the team find 40 bones. Caroline concludes that they have proved positive that Treblinka 1 contains several new mass graves, and fresh evidence of the brutal killings carried out here by the Nazis.

C - My feeling is here that we should stop now, because the more we dig here, the more bone we're finding. All of the remains are disarticulated. We have fragments of bone, fragments of skulls, fragments of ribs. We've got enough to prove that this is a mass grave, and if we kept digging, we'd find more and more and more. The best thing to do is to return the remains. [Image 13]

K - yes I agree

I - Yes

[Colls is visually upset on 16 minutes.]

C - We are now reinterring the remains we found today [image which is quite a difficult thing to do. Obviously we have confirmed the presence of a mass grave. We have found the remains of these individuals, so that all of the individuals here can now be commemorated. It is something that I am very proud to have been part of and I hope that that's the legacy that this project can give to the memory of the people of Treblinka.

N - The decision to build the extermination camp at T2 was made 200 km away in the city of Lublin. This is where the final solution to rid central Europe of its Jews was organized. In autumn 1941 Himmler met in Lublin with his close confident SS chief Odilo Globocnik [Image 15], putting him in charge of action Reinhardt. The purpose of this operation was to launch the holocaust and exterminate Poland's two and a quarter million Jews. Globocnik's task was to build three extermination camps at Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka. He was then to transport and coordinate the transportation by rail of Poland's Jews to the eastern camps and seize their assets for the Nazi state, then kill them. Treblinka was to be at the heart of the Nazis plans for the Holocaust. Globocnick was given just eighteen months to complete Aktion Reinhardt.

[Colls tours concentration camp Majdanek.]

N - On the edge of the city of Lublin, you can still find large parts of Majdanek, the largest concentration camp outside of the German Reich. Opened in 1941, Majdanek evolved from being a penal camp for soviet troops and Jews, into a slave labour camp, with 50000 prisoners, at its peak. These buildings are as close a Caroline can get to seeing what the Treblinka death camp would have looked like in 1942. None of the gas chambers from the three other Reinhardt camps have ever been found, but here at Majdanek two gas chambers do survive. Built in September 1942, they were constructed around the same time as the gas chambers at Treblinka. Caroline's looking for clues here as to the kind of building materials she hopes to discover when she begins excavating the gas chambers at Treblinka 2.

C - I'm never going to be able to excavate the remains of walls in tact at Treblinka. I'm never going to be able to see the gas chambers as I can see them here at Majdenek, because the Nazis did go to great lengths to destroy them.

What I'm going to find, hopefully, is foundations, is possible sections of wall. Basically fragments of evidence. So that's why it's a unique experience for me to be able to come here, and important experience to come to majdanek to see these buildings standing. To see exactly how these gas chambers functioned, and to see that and to have physical evidence starring you in the face is a really troubling thing. I feel extremely uncomfortable walking around the places where I know where so many people were killed.

N - With this new information Caroline returns to search for the gas chambers at Treblinka 2. The efficiency of the Nazis clean-up means that Caroline has an enormous challenge ahead of her.

Caroline Sturdy Colls and a team of archaeologists have been given unprecedented permission to excavate at Treblinka and to invest the brutal mechanics of murder and to discover what happened to those who were brought here. The bodies of 900,000 people believed to have been murdered at Treblinka have never been found. There are no surviving buildings, no trace of the gas chambers.

N - Vasily Grossman [Journalist] statement -- "An excavator dug a long pit of two hundred fifty three hundred yards, wide from twenty to twenty." . . . "People could see the flames around the pine forests." [Pine is not fire resistant]

N - There were so many ashes the Nazis forced locals to dispose of them nearby.

N - Grossman - "Peasants from the local village of Wolka" . . . "tyres make a swishing sound beneath wheels"

N - Today 17,000 stones symbolize the towns and villages where Jews were rounded up by the Nazis. A giant symbolic grill pit represents the location where those hundreds of thousands of people are thought to have been cremated. Fragments of evidence of what happened here is still scattered across the ground.

C - So these are fragments of human bone [Image 16], which you can see have been cremated because they have been exposed to a high temperature. You can see some of them are white and some of them like this one show evidence of blackening [Image 17]. We have literally walked around this space for a matter of minutes and finding bone fragments remnants of people's belongings and it gives you an overwhelming sense of the scale and horror that was Treblinka. You can't even imagine how much people must have suffered here. No one came to look for them, nobody gave them a proper burial. It's really quite an overwhelming experience.

N - Caroline ; meets with Michael Schudrick, the chief Rabbi of Poland, to confirm that she has his support. The extermination camp is a Jewish burial site and disturbing human remains here is forbidden.

C - When we get to the extermination camp, I don't want to be too invasive. I only want to dig small test pits just so I can confirm what some of the buildings are. One of the things I want your advice on is, obviously in the process of that we perhaps will come across human remains.

Schudrick (S): In General there are two ways you are going to find human remains. One is just on the surface, those bones were never buried.

C - Yeah!

S - The bones that are right on this surface: sometimes you are going to find them, literally . . .

C - On the monument

S - Right, should be gathered together, and we'll bury it somewhere afterwards . .

C - Ok

S - Then we'll have to discuss where, If you actually find a mass grave, you have to stop.

C - Yes of course.

S - It's simple.

C - Ok.

S - And if you're not sure, call.

C - Ask, yeah Ok thank you.

S - It's real simple.

C - Mn Mm. I mean, I hope the research that I'm doing can provide a lot of information, but if we can find remains and give them a proper burial, then that's obviously one of the key reasons for doing this.

S - When I look at a human being, as best I can, I try to see 'who I am talking to?' and what I see there is a very pure sol. And the only worry I have about Caroline is how is she going to get through all of this? But in terms of her doing the right thing and being committed to doing the right thing, I have absolutely no doubt.

N - Eye-witnesses describe two sets of gas chambers at T2. In 1942 camp commandant Franz Strangl arrived at T2, and work began on the larger second gas chambers. These were designed to increase killing capacity from 600 to 5000. It's this second building that Caroline wants to find. Based on shapes in the LIDAR data, was the dimensions of these gas chambers as reported by survivors, Caroline sinks trenches four and five in an open area close to the memorial [Images 18, 19 and 20]. She's convinced this is where they are located. Although the Nazis tried to hide the evidence of their crimes by destroying T2, Caroline hopes that physical proof of the gas chambers such as bricks and concrete could still be buried there.

C - In the overall story of Treblinka the gas chambers is the absolute heart of the extermination process here, and so it is important for me to be able to identify where the gas chambers were. It makes sense for the new gas chamber building to be sent here and I want to be able to find that today.

N - But if the Nazis did succeed in destroying all trace of gas chambers there will be nothing left for her to uncover, making Caroline's six year quest impossible.

C - In a way I am nervous about the next stage. I've come up with a hypothesis about where the gas chambers may be, so well have to just see what happens.

N - Treblinka 2's commandant Franz Strangl experience was particularly suited to the creation of a death factory. Before Treblinka he had worked for the Nazis secretive euthanasia program T4, where 70,000 disabled people in Germany and in Austria had been killed with carbon monoxide in sealed rooms. Once dead the victims gold teeth were removed, the bodies cremated, and the remaining bones pulverized. Their ashes were then scattered over a local river. Stangl had learned how to kill large numbers at T4. At T2 he scaled this up to an industrial level, using the more efficient gas chambers it took just minutes to kill just 5,000 people.

As the team dig deeper in both trenches, they find no evidence of a solid structure like bricks or concrete. Then Ivar makes a startling find. It's not a good sign.

I - So we found a shark tooth, and I'm not joking. [Images 22 and 23] This appear to be some other fossil.

N - It looks like when the Nazis destroyed the gas chambers they dumped sand from the quarry at Treblinka 1 over the ruins.

C - We've just dug a little test pit down in hours, round the corner and it's just sand, continuous sand.

N - That sand contained tiny fossils from when this whole area was a sea bed, millions of years ago It's a major set-back for Caroline and the last thing the team were expecting.

C - We didn't find any more things apart from the fossil material.

I - More fossils

C - Hm!

N - The team continue to dig to 1.5 metres. There's no sign of any building materials. Just more sand and stones

C - yeah same as you

I - Yeah?

C - I think . . .

N - Caroline decides to stop believing that in this area of the camp the Nazi clean up appears to have been effective.

C - Well, not disappointed exactly but I would have liked this to be in-situ building foundations. It's never going to be like Auschwitz, you're never going to walk through the building of Treblinka, and see them and we knew that. At the end of the day the Nazis did try and hide what they did but I think for us anything we can find to add to that information is vital.

N - The question remains: does any evidence for the gas chambers still exist?

C - I won't be beaten by the fact that we didn't find in-situ foundations here and at the end of the day, we'll just keep looking.

N - Going back to the LIDAR, Caroline examines another depression in the landscape just a few metres away. It looks tantalisingly like the site of the smaller original chambers. Realising this is her last chance she immediately decides to dig two new trenches [Image 24]. In her mission to find the gas chambers at the Nazi death camp Treblinka forensic archaeologist Caroline Sturdy Colls has only found a shark's tooth and is worried that all evidence of the gas chamber has been removed. She calls a meeting with historian Rob Van Der Laarse and aerial specialist Chris Going, to help her identify new targets to excavate.

C - Obviously pin pointing where the gas chambers were is very important for understanding the configuration of the death camp.

N - Without any aerial photographs of the camp, Caroline only as maps drawn by a handful of camp survivors and commandant Franz Strangl as a guide, but the details on these maps conflict.

C - Some witnesses didn't draw those maps until quite a long time after the events had taken place. All of these maps we can see they're all different in terms of the configuration of the buildings, in terms of shape.

Going - The fact that they differ one from the other, are people saying, "well, if you can't agree what the site looks like, and if you don't know where the gas chambers is, then maybe there wasn't a gas chamber' or something like that?

C - If denier's arguments hinge on this, if different witness testimonies differ about where these gas chambers were, if we can find them, we can answer question people have asked for seventy years about these very important structures.

Going - That's vital

N - Trenches 4 and 5 offered little more than the sharks tooth, but her LIDAR survey is suggesting a new site in an area where the first gas chambers could be located, so she digs two new trenches 6 and 7.

C - We've got this area which is a visible earth work it was the biggest thing on the LIDAR survey. So what we wanted to do was to excavate this to try and establish what the cause of the earth work is. We know there's something here, but we don't know what.

C - Dark soil! [Digging]

N - From the outset they look much more promising. The team now feel that they are on the trail of something new.

C - Are there any coin experts? [Coin discovered]

N - And evidence of a human catastrophe begins to emerge.

Kevin (K) - We have a very small comb here with a few complete teeth. In addition we've got two other elements of what we think are combs. It is nice to find a couple of objects which can tell a story [See T24] what part of Poland they came from. It opens different avenues of research.

C - We've got a lot of very personal items. We've got pendants which were probably given to people maybe as presents or bought for people for a special reason. That's heart wrenching to think that you are holding something that meant so much to somebody. That's all that's left of the people sent to Treblinka.

N - Hair clips and jewellery. Could these be signs that Caroline is getting closer to the gas chambers? Jewellery and small personal items suggest that the people brought here had no idea that they were coming to a death camp. Could the Nazis have really kept the extermination camps a secret?

Caroline wants to discover more about the people who died at Treblinka . . .

[This part of the documentary digresses from the bad archaeology, and switches to the propaganda]

. . . and where they came from. She heads for Warsaw. When the Germans invaded the city 1/ 3 was Jewish. Soon 350,000 Jews found themselves trapped in the ghetto covering 3.5 sq km.

[Discussion about the Warsaw ghetto with historian Rob Van Der Laarse on 37 minutes]

[Toshia Bailer's Warsaw ghetto account on 38 minutes]

[Caroline meets Warsaw ghetto survivor Joanna Pegorska, who's father was a known agitator/socialist party member]

N - Between 1940 and mid 1942 83,000 Jews died of starvation and disease.

[SS Herman Worthoff, Gestapo Lublin, quoted]

42 minutes - In Warsaw with Van Der Laarse.

43 minutes - Abraham Zrzepicki testimony re: the Warsaw ghetto.

N - Between July and October 1942, 722,300 Jews were deported to Treblinka from across Poland. In complete secrecy and with few records the story was repeated across the ghettos of Europe. The scale of the operation at Treblinka is known only because of the efforts of a few eye witnesses.

Franciszek Zabecki [Treblinka Station Master] statement: "women, children . . . you know the Germans with their methodical ways . . . 8-10,000."

N - Today it's believed that around 900,000 Jews were murdered at Treblinka, from about 1.5 million killed during action Reinhardt. Caroline is determined to find conclusive proof of the existence of Treblinka gas chambers. The Nazis attempted to destroy the evidence of their crimes with a clinical thoroughness, but Caroline is not convinced that it's possible to hide all clues of a crime scene this large.

On 45 minutes Colls walks towards Ivar and says "O my god!"

N - Forensic archaeologist Caroline Sturdy Colls is looking for evidence of the gas at T2 the team has already discovered previously unknown mass grave and now based on her research, and a LIDAR survey Caroline is investigating a new area.

As the trenches deepen, small items appear which present Caroline with a dilemma.

C - Oh my gosh, you as well? [Images 25 and 26 - False teeth]

N - They are further evidence of the crime committed here.

C - It's very strange. Kevin got false teeth, as well?

K - Yeah!

C - Ivar's just found some too. I think we treat them like human being to be honest. Personally, essentially that's what they are.

K - It is silver isn't it? A Silver tooth. [Image 27]

N - Finding proof of the gas chambers with give Caroline hard evidence of how the extermination process at Treblinka was managed. The Nazi myth was quick, efficient and professional, but the reality was chaotic and savage. The camp commandant Franz Strangl described what he saw, the first time he arrived.

[Strangl's so called statement on 47 minutes]

N - Stangl established production line efficiency at Treblinka. The camp could now 'process' around 6000 people within 20 minutes as long as the railways could maintain the supply. Jews arriving at Treblinka in packed trains from the ghettos were exhausted dehydrated and had no idea where they were. Samuel Willenberg was transported to the death camp in 1941 from Opatow ghetto. He was one of the very few people to survive Treblinka.

[Sturdy Colls listens to a few of Willenberg's stories on 48 minutes]

N - SS officer Willi Mentz was part of the T4 euthanasia programme before working at Treblinka. He described his work at the camp at his trial after the war.

[Mentz testimony on 49 minutes followed by more Willenberg stories]

N - SS officer willi Mentz recalls the procedure for rounding up new arrivals at the camp.

[Mentz testimony]

N - Once the men women and children had been stripped of their possessions, clothes, hair and dignity, they were marched down a corridor the guards called the 'Road to heaven.'

[Willenberg stories on 52 minutes]

N - The walk from the platform to the gas chambers took just minutes. Very few Jews saw the gas chambers and survived.

N - Abaraham Zrzepicki was deported to the Treblinka extermination camp on 25th August 1942. His work as a slave labourer gave him access to even the most secret part of the camp.

Zrzepicki's report is quoted: "I saw before me a room which was not too large. It looked like a regular shower room with all the accoutrements of a public bathhouse. The walls of the room were covered with small, white tiles. It was very fine, clean work. The floor was covered with orange terra cotta tiles. Nickel plated metal faucets were set into the ceiling." [Abraham Krzepicki: Eighteen Days in Treblinka]

C - For the men, within 8 to 10 minutes after arriving in Treblinka, they would be dead, they would be killed in the gas chambers, and for the women it was more like 15 minutes, because of the fact that they had to have been further humiliation: they had to have their head shaved before they actually took that walk to the gas chambers themselves.

N - It's been a seventy year hunt to find evidence to prove what happened here, but new technology, and Caroline's detective work could be close to unlocking the secret, the Nazis wanted no one to know.

Then the discovery that Caroline couldn't dare hope for.

I - Caroline!

C - oh oh my god wow.

I - That's something.

Going - That's turned up this morning?

I - Yeah it was over there. I have four tiles, three yellow, and one red. [Image 28]

C - mm, hm.

I - And these are small fragments and this one is almost complete. [Images 29,20, and 31]

C - Ok

I - And as you see the star of David is on the bottom. [Images 32 and 33]

C - The other side.

I - Which is quite remarkable.

C - Yeah absolutely and another symbol there.

I - But have you ever seen those tiles?

C - No

I - Tiles that fit in with the idea that that we are an area of the gas chamber.

C - What immediately springs to mind is that witnesses who were allowed in the gas chamber area talked about the Star of David actually belong outside of the gas chamber buildings to build up that illusion that people were going to somewhere that was safe. We know for example that the insides of the gas chambers were burnished, as it were. It would have had permanent building material, to give the illusion that people were going into a bath house.

I - Ok, incredible.

C - Quite amazing.

I - You realise on what spot you are on, and I have seen things nobody has ever seen after the war. I mean these are the silent witnesses.

N - A few tiles with what appears to be the Star of David and sections of masonry offers the first signal that Caroline's hunch was right, using this new evidence Caroline began to map the route prisoners took from the station platform to the square, where they were forced to undress and ultimately to the gas chamber, where they were executed. At the gas chambers there were no last minute rescues, no survivors to describe what happened next. [Image 40]

N - Pavel Leleko, a Ukrainian guard, captured in 1945, described what he saw -- [Testimony available online]

[Note: by mentioning Leleko's testimony, Colls theory re: "Jews feeling safe," with the Star of David is contradicted]

N - Caroline and the team need to be sure that the tiles are part of a permanent structure. If this was the site of the gas chambers there would have been solid foundations. The next metre of the dig will be the most important of Caroline's six year investigation at Treblinka.

In just five days Caroline Sturdy Colls and her team have dug seven trenches at Treblinka. So far they've discovered three previously unknown mass graves, jeweller, personal possessions, and human remains. But now at T2 they are finding numerous bricks and tiles which suggest they could be at the site of the original gas chambers. Then as they dig deeper, the team hit a series of larger stones.

k - There's certainly a change in the material now that's being excavated in this trench. We may have the original ground surface now of when the camp was in operation and that's why we're seeing very big structural stones now.

N - Caroline thinks the Nazis dumped sand on top of the gas chambers to hide the evidence of their crimes.

C - The ground level of the camp would have been much lower than it is now. All this other activity has simply built up the land, rather than interfered with that evidence that's buried deeper.

K - That's what we have excavated through, that material, to come down onto the proper level of the camp. So this would have been somewhere close to where the individuals would have been walking on. [Image 41]

C - That completely changes your perspective of this landscape and how the camp looked, when you know that the ground level would have been much, much deeper.

N - Satisfied that she's found proof of the gas chambers, Caroline has no choice but to rebury the evidence. But it's not easy.

C - It's a hard thing to back fill it. I think that's what I'm struggling with. I'm struggling with the notion that we found all this, and then you got to cover it up again. Part of me wants to leave it there so that other can see it. To find the gas chambers you have to dig, but what you are doing there is opening this window into something nobodies seen since the perpetrators stood here. That escalates you almost through time, to be so close to those events.

C - It feels like the Nazis have won if you don't bring to the surface that evidence but what I think is poignant about these gas chambers is as well that this is the place where Treblinka began. This is the point on the very first day that those very first transports came in. We've identified the location of the old gas chamber here and in doing that were proved that the Nazis couldn't hide all traces of their crimes.

N - Caroline working for the first time with the latest technology has made important discoveries at Treblinka. She has confirmed the location of three new mass graves in Treblinka 1, providing further evidence that this place was a site of mass murder. And in Treblinka 2 Caroline has succeeded in pinpointing the location of the gas chambers and confirmed her suspicions that the camp was actually 10% larger [Images 38 and 39] than previously thought. The bricks tiles and concrete discovered at the extermination camp will now be tested for chemicals to better understand what happened here. [Images 42, 43, 44, 45, and 46]

C - What became apparent is simply the scale of what we found. We'll probably not be able to identify individuals who were killed here, and so these objects really are our only window into the stories of those individuals who were sent here. And it's a horrible thing to think that all you leave behind on earth, to be found seventy years later is a pendant, or a hair clip, or an earring.

N - From July 1942 to April 1943 the Germans killed around 900,000 Jews at Treblinka. In a final report to Himmler, Odilo Globocnik noted the great success of operation Reinhardt. The Jews had been exterminated Treblinka has been destroyed and the personal possessions, currency, and valuables stolen from the murder victims had been passed onto the Reich. Globocnik was eventually captured in Austria by British troops but took his own life before he could be interrogated. Franz Strangl the architect of efficient systematic killing of the Jews escaped to Brazil. He was tracked down by Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal and charged with the murder of 900,000 people. Found guilty he was sentenced to life imprisonment.

C - We are re-burying the remains that we have excavated as part of our research project. It's symbolic because it means we can commemorate some of the victims of Treblinka, and in re-burying and commemorating some of them, we can remember all of them. It's a very important moment of this process, because putting aside all the science that's facilitated this investigation, this was always about the people that were sent to Treblinka. It's an odd process, that in re-burying people you continue to uncover the horrors of the crimes that were perpetrated here. There are more remains there. We still find more and more and more and it really does show just how horrific Treblinka was. It's too much, actually, to kind of comprehend. It just makes you think, you know, if the whole earth of Treblinka was opened up, what kind of hell you'd be looking into.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby -JFK- » 5 years 10 months ago (Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:18 am)

Hello all, finally gathered the courage to register.
About the tiles with the David's star and the CSC dig in general I'd like to add my two cents.

First of all, that the tiles show relatively clean edges and a lack of patina is hardly surprising to me.
Though the breaklines do show a slight trace of erosion the lack of clearly evident signs is only logical when compared with 2500+ year old Etruscan pottery.
The lack of vissible patina can also be explained by their youth and the fact that they are fresh out of the earth and obviously still moist thus making any salt crust translucent (the comparisson with garden pottery does not apply either as that is usually exposed to the air allowing any mineral rich water on it's surface to evaporate thus leaving a saltcrust, which is not the case with pottery in a moist layer of sand).

By no means do I mean to prove the claims made by CSC, but those points can not be used as evidence of the contrary.

What I do find suspicious though is the fact that the layer of soil in which the shards where supposedly found looks totally monotone and undisturbed in the pictures of the dig posted above, not a trace of mortar or concrete.
This obviously disproves the assumption that they where part of a so called "gas chamber floor" in that location, it looks more like dumped construction waste if it is of that era at all.

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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 10 months ago (Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:46 am)

He's never spoke[sic] before publically[sic] about the horrors and brutality he witnessed at T1.
Yeah sure. He suddenly remembers every detail, exactly as it was, after 70 years. In any other context this would be taken with a large grain of salt, but he's a "survivor".

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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby Hannover » 5 years 10 months ago (Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:06 am)

The entire matter is preposterous. Here we have an alleged 'death camp' where it's claimed that the exact whereabouts of pits which allegedly hold 800,000 Jewish remains are known. In fact, Jews have placed tons of rocks / boulders over the claimed pits. So why isn't Colls moving some of these curious impediments and digging beneath them? 'Jewish law' is not relevant, it does allow for exhumations where crime is supposedly involved (yes, Jew bodies are exhumed in apartheid 'Israel'), for relocation to said 'Israel', and other reasons.
more here:
The Big Excuse: 'excavation & exhumation of Jews forbidden'

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary

Postby Dolma » 5 years 10 months ago (Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:52 pm)

From the transcript posted above:

Schudrick (S): In General there are two ways you are going to find human remains. One is just on the surface, those bones were never buried.

C - Yeah!

S - The bones that are right on this surface: sometimes you are going to find them, literally . . .

C - On the monument


What about the third way to find bones, like, in a mass grave?

Oh, and how did the bones literally get on the monument? Here's how:

Jew filmed planting evidence at Treblinka


N - Vasily Grossman [Journalist] statement -- "An excavator dug a long pit of two hundred fifty three hundred yards, wide from twenty to twenty." . . .


And CSC found that pit where?


This is so laughable. The transcript reads like a grade school play.
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