Define exactly what "to the east" means

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Reviso
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Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby Reviso » 4 years 4 months ago (Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:20 am)

borjastick wrote:Dolma his name is Reviso not Revisio. If you weren't so condescending and spelled his name correctly he might answer your obtuse question. You are being deliberately vague and misleading. You want an answer to a probably irrelevant question but don't state your position first, therefore a level of mistrust exists around you. Simples.


Thanks borjastick. I give up trying to guess Dolma's meaning.
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Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby Moderator » 4 years 4 months ago (Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:42 pm)

Dolma:
Please relax, there is no reason for antagonism.
Thanks, M1
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Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby fountainhead » 3 years 7 months ago (Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:53 pm)

I think I can see what Dolma was getting at. The supposed death camps were all in Poland, correct? And this was supposedly the end of the line for the Final Solution - where the Jews went to die. So if it can be shown that any Jews were transported farther east from the death camps, it contradicts the orthodox storyline.

I've been reading about this "to the east" matter the past couple of days and I just wanted to clarify what the revisionist position is, if there is one, about how the Final Solution was carried out. So the Germans put the Jews on trains, sent them through transit camps where some were chosen for work. The rest were then forwarded on to the occupied Russian east, correct? So what was the "last stop" on the Final Solution train? Did the trains just stop in places like Ukraine, Lithuania, etc. and the Germans just slide the doors open and say "Get out. This is your new home."? Is that how revisionists generally believe it worked?

If any Jews were on one of these trains, there must be some who remember such an experience at the very end of the line - being let go by the Germans in an unfamiliar land. Of course, I realize people weren't exactly free to speak in the Soviet Union, but I'm wondering if anyone has heard testimony like this.
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Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby hermod » 3 years 7 months ago (Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:06 pm)

fountainhead wrote:So the Germans put the Jews on trains, sent them through transit camps where some were chosen for work. The rest were then forwarded on to the occupied Russian east, correct? So what was the "last stop" on the Final Solution train? Did the trains just stop in places like Ukraine, Lithuania, etc. and the Germans just slide the doors open and say "Get out. This is your new home."? Is that how revisionists generally believe it worked?


No, they were kept in "special concentration camps" as Rudenko said at Nuremberg (Define exactly what "to the east" means) and in walled/fenced ghettoes which had been previously emptied by the Soviets through "very systematic" evacuations before the arrival of the German troops in those areas (http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blog ... -jews.html).

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http://www.jta.org/1944/01/19/archive/e ... he-ukraine
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby CWhite » 1 year 2 months ago (Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:54 pm)

Dolma wrote:If "the final solution" was an extermination pogram and not a forced emigration program, then, if a line were drawn on a map from Stuttof to Treblinka to Sobibor to Belzec - what possible reason would the Germans have had for transiting even a single jew so much as an inch east beyond that line?


The answer is simple: There would have been no reason what-so-ever.

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Especially when you had Chelmno, Auschwitz and Majdanek inside that line.

One could also ask:

If "the final solution" was an extermination pogram, then why was any jew transited beyond a line drawn from Stuttof to Chelmno to Auschwitz?

Maybe a better question would be:

If "the final solution" was an extermination pogram, and jews weren't killed where they were found because special "extermination centers" were specifically set up to exterminate them, then why was any jew transited beyond a line drawn from Stuttof to Chelmno to Auschwitz, or a line drawn from Stuttoff to Treblinka to Sobibor to Majdanek to Belzec?

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Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby CWhite » 1 year 2 months ago (Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:42 pm)

Dolma wrote:Does the proven fact that jews were transited beyond the so-called "pure extermination centers" conflict with or coincide with the orthodox holohoax storyline?


Dolma, I do not for a second believe the orthodox story about jews being killed at the AR camps, or the fraudulently alleged "huge mass grave" allegations, and I do not deny that jews have admitted to being transited out of the "pure extermination centers." (Thank you Eric Hunt!), however, when you say:

the proven fact that jews were transited beyond the so-called "pure extermination centers"


How many jews are you talking about?

Are you talking about the handful that Eric Hunt discovered (Thank you Eric Hunt!), or are you talking about others as well?

The reason I ask is because of this fact:

It has never been proven that so-much-as ten percent of those fraudulently alleged to be currently buried at these four “sacred” archaeological sites, ever even set foot in the so-called “crime scenes” - not ten percent!

http://nafcash.com/

So there just doesn't seem to be all that many jews in the equation to begin with when talking about the number who were "transited to the east."

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Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby Hektor » 2 months 4 weeks ago (Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:18 am)

hermod wrote:
Hektor wrote:They seem to have mentioned those camps by name here:


Already quoted earlier in this thread, but without the "tortured to death by the Hitlerites" part, empty Soviet atrocity propaganda completely useless historically speaking.


Mkk wrote:"where thousands were tortured to death by Hitlerites". I wouldn't take it as a smoking gun proof but interesting nonetheless.


Indeed. Even if the academic so-called 'historians' surprisingly regard Soviet propaganda as a reliable source of information - not as the laughable pack of lies it was - ONLY when the Holy 'Holocaust' is concerned. I wonder why. Is that because the contrary would damage their precious little career? :twisted:


The usual tactic is to mix fact and fiction in order to create a desirable impression within the target audience.
I got the following from the IMT transcripts mentioning Ozaritchi.

Maidanek and Auschwitz camps served as a means of extermination only for those who really were sent to these camps. These two camps were not a direct menace for those people who were outside the walls of the camp; but, in the course of the war, having already suffered grave defeats, German fascism began to practice

new bestialities for exterminating peaceful citizens-thus, in Bielorussia camps of death, not only to exterminate the inmates of the camp itself but, first and foremost, to spread infectious diseases among the peaceful population and the ranks of the Red Army. There were no crematoria and gas chambers in these camps but these camps should in all justice be considered as among the most brutal concentration camps which were created by fascism for extermination of people.

I present to the Tribunal as Exhibit Number USSR-4 (Document Number USSR-4) the report of the Extraordinary State Commission of the Soviet Union for the investigation of the murder of people by means of spreading typhus epidemics. Such evidence was not presented before, and I shall therefore quote several excerpts from this report. I begin the quotation on Page 454 of the document book, first column of the text, first paragraph; last paragraph on Page 266 of the Russian text. I begin the quotation:

"On 19 March 1944 advancing Red Army units discovered, near the settlement of Osaritchi in the region of Polesskoy in the Bielorussian S.S.R., within the limits of German defense lines, three concentration camps in which there were over 33,000 children, women, and old men incapable of work."

I interrupt my quotation, and I omit one paragraph.
"The camps were really open squares surrounded by barbed wire. The approaches to them were mined. There were no buildings whatever even of the most insignificant type in the camp grounds." I call the Tribunal's attention to the fact that all this happened in March, in Bielorussia, when it is really very cold there.

"The inmates were sitting on the ground. Many of them had lost their ability to move and were lying unconscious in the mud. It was forbidden to the inmates to build fires, to gather brush or branches for bedding. The Hitlerites shot Soviet people for the slightest attempt to violate this order.

"For concentration camps close to the nearest line of defense, the Germans, in the first place, selected sites in such places where they did not hope to retain their position. Secondly, they concentrated large masses of Soviet people in the camps, placing there primarily women, children, and old men unable to work. Thirdly, they placed in these camps thousands of typhus patients who were brought from various temporarily occupied regions of the Bielorussian S.S.R., especially for this purpose. They were kept together with the starved, weak inmates who no longer could serve as labor and who were living there under the most unhygienic conditions.

"Among those liberated from these camps were 15,960 children up to the age of 13; 13,072 women incapable of work, and 4,448 old men."
I omit the next page and read Page 269 of the Russian text. I quote only one paragraph which reveals the methods used by the criminals to drive into the camps peaceful citizens from various regions of Bielorussia. Witness Mrs. L. Pikarskaya, who was liberated from the camp, testified before the commission:

"On 12 March 1944 late in the afternoon, we, the inhabitants of the city of Jlobin, were forced to assemble within half an hour at the station Jlobin South. Here the Germans selected all the young ones and took them away. Having herded us into railroad cars, the Germans closed the doors tightly. Where we were going we didn't know, but we all anticipated some evil....

"As we found out later on, we were taken along the Rudobelkovsky railway and unloaded late in the afternoon on 15 March. During the night, knee deep in sticky mud, we were driven into a camp. From this camp were driven into another one. On the way the Germans beat us, and those who lagged behind were shot. One woman was walking with three children. One of the children fell down. The Germans shot at him. Horrified, the mother and the two other children looked back; the monster soldiers shot them down one by one. The mother cried out in agony, but her shriek was interrupted by a direct shot. Another mother and son, the Bondarews, walked side by side. The child could not stand the tiring journey and fell down. The mother bent over him, she wanted to encourage him with a word; but neither the son nor the mother rose or saw the blue sky again; the Germans shot them."

I omit the next page of this document and I pass to the presentation of some evidence testifying to the fact that the Germans purposely concentrated in this camp the typhus-stricken people. I quote three paragraphs from Page 271 of this text:

"A. S. Mitrachovich, a resident of the village of Novo-Belitza who was liberated from the camp, testified:
" 'We who were sick with typhus were driven to the village of Mikul-Gorodok into a camp surrounded by barbed wire.'
"An inhabitant of the hamlet of Novogrudok, Z. P. Gavrilchik, testified:
" 'During 3 days typhus-stricken patients were brought in motor cars into camp, with the result that many who were healthy also became sick.'"

I omit the next two pages of the document and I pass over to what the members of the Tribunal will find on Page 254, on the reverse side, second column of the text, Paragraph 6. I quote:

"The German Army Command used to send their own agents to the camps near the front line to observe how the typhus was spreading among the inmates and also among the Red Army units."

Next there is the testimony of one of such agents, the traitor Rastorguev. I omit this quotation.

To conclude the presentation of evidence relative to this matter, I shall only quote a few excerpts from the findings of the medical experts of epidemical diseases. The Tribunal will find it on the back of Page 454, second column of the text. This is Page 274 of the Russian text. I begin the quotation:

"(a) The German authorities placed together in concentration camps both the healthy and the typhus-stricken Soviet citizens.
"(b) In order to expedite the dissemination of typhus in the camps, the Germans used to transfer the typhus patients from one camp to another.
"(c) On many occasions when typhus patients refused to go into the camp, the German authorities used force.
"(d) German aggressors used to move typhus patients from hospitals into the camps and mixed them with the healthy camp inmates."
And the last paragraph:
"(e) The infecting of the Soviet population with typhus began in second half of February and was practiced to the middle of March."

The result of it was mass infection of the people interned in the camp, and the members of the Tribunal will find proof of this in the next paragraph where it is said that the Red Army Command sent 4,052 Soviet citizens to the hospitals, among them 2,370 children below 13 years of age, all liberated just from one hamlet of Ozarichi, in the Poless region.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/02-19-46.asp


There is USSR-4 Document mentioned. Me thinks the Germans first concentrated people they couldn't use (and probably not really feed) at certain places they retreated from. Some may indeed have had Typhus. But I don't see any deliberate spreading of typhus in that.

Jews (from Western Europe) aren't mentioned in those reports.

On another note:
It is quite obvious that for many Jews from Belgium and other western European countries, Auschwitz served merely as a transit camp. The article from the Swiss Jewish weekly cited above is no isolated case. Two revisionist authors, the Spaniard Enrique Aynat and the Frenchman Jean-Marie Boisdefeu,[note 26] have found additional examples. Here are some of them:

A Slovak Jew, Gisi Fleischman, reported in March of 1943 that in the region of Lublin (Poland), he encountered other Slovak Jews, as well as Belgian Jews.[note 27]
In 1942 Jews from Belgium, Netherlands and France arrived by train in Lvov (Lviv), Ukraine, according to testimony of the eyewitness I. Hertz provided in 1946 by the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee of the USSR.[note 28]
The French Communist underground newspaper Notre Voix reported in its April 1944 issue:[note 29]
News that will please all the Jews of France was broadcast by Radio Moscow. Who among us has not had a brother, a sister, a spouse or a parent among those deported from Paris? And who will not rejoice when he hears that 8,000 Paris Jews have been rescued by the glorious Red Army! One of them reported on Radio Moscow how he was saved from death together with 8,000 other Paris Jews. They all found themselves in Ukraine at the time of the latest Soviet offensive, and the SS bandits wanted to shoot them before they left the country.

One might object, of course, that such reports are not German wartime documents, and consequently are not conclusive. All the same, they give additional support to the thesis that Auschwitz also functioned as a transit camp. Why should an underground Communist newspaper in France have published in April of 1944 a false news report about Jews being rescued by the Red Army in Ukraine? And why should the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee of the Soviet Union have spread false information about deportations of French and Belgian Jews to Ukraine? There is no valid reason to believe such reports are false.

In addition, some surviving German wartime documents also refer to the deportation of western European Jews to the occupied Soviet territories. On August 28, 1942, an SS conference on "the Jewish question" was held in Berlin, at which specific problems arising from the deportations were discussed. The official record of the conference included the following on deportations of stateless Jews from France:[note 30]

During the course of the discussion, SS Lt. Colonel [Obersturmbannführer] Eichmann made known that the current evacuation problem (deportation of the stateless Jews) should be concluded by the end of this calendar year. The end of June 1943 is anticipated as a deadline for the deportation of the remaining foreign Jews ... Eichmann requested the immediate purchase of the barracks that had been ordered by the Commander of the Security Police in the Hague [Netherlands]. That camp is to be built in Russia. The transport of the barracks can be arranged so that three to five barracks can be taken along with each transport train.

The implication of this document is clear: Only a portion of the Jews who had been deported from France to Auschwitz remained in the camp. The remainder were transported further east, namely to the occupied Eastern territories ("Russia"), where a camp was to be built for them. The barracks for this camp were to be transported by train.
https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n4p-4_Graf.html


So there is other reports menitioning Jews from Western Europe in the area in and around Russia.


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