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Who controls the present controls the past.
I believe the Soviets (along with the 'Allies') engaged in some of the biggest atrocities in modern history. They will cling to whatever is necessary to deflect from that fact, The 'holocaust' storyline acts as a shield for them. However, they do have a rebellious youth which appears to be getting wise.
Times are changing, the truth is emerging, surely.
The tide is turning.
Russian historians are also taking a more critical look, but we here in the west will not hear this. Putin is an enigma, he knows what happened but is hesitant. Or is he and not just one of the players? The afore mentioned Marina Sorokina tells us that archives are still locked, why?
Even if the Holocaust is true, it pales in significance to Russians to the losses of the USSR - around 30 million people killed, many more wounded, so many towns, cities, infrastructure etc. destroyed.
As always, Google is our friend:
There is also some information on Russia (and other former Soviet countries) in chapter 5 of this (non-revisionist) publication:
http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/holocaust_ ... rusin.html
Prusin tries hard to convince us that the Russians were aware of what later was to become “The Holocaust”, he fails however. On p.3 he tells us:
“In the international arena, the Soviet government denounced Nazi atrocities committed in the Soviet Union and highlighted the mass murder of Jews. The Soviets appeared to be well informed about the Holocaust, and the Soviet press often reported its most notorious instances, such as the massacre at Babi Yar.” (my emphasis)
“Appeared to be”? No. On pp.6/7 he has to admit:
“The omission of mention of the Holocaust from the hearings in Krasnodar and Khar'kov reflected the Allies' ambiguous attitude towards the murder [End Page 6] of Jews. The Moscow Declaration, for example, mentioned the Holocaust only in passing as "crimes committed against Poland." For the United States and Britain, as for the Soviet Union, the main task of the war was to defeat Germany, and therefore the notion of the Germans as the aggressors received much more attention from politicians in the West than did war crimes and crimes against humanity. 28 Similarly, the Soviet government considered Jewish-centered publicity to be undesirable. Instead, the Krasnodar and Khar'kov trials were intended to demonstrate Nazi plans to destroy the entire "Soviet people" regardless of ethnic distinction.”
Sorry, but no cigar, for there is no mention of “The Holocaust” in the Moscow Declaration. Russian historians are not interested, they do try however to set the record straight re. the myth of the “Great Patriotic War”.
As for the destruction, Marina Sorokina details some of the destruction left behind by the retreating Soviet troops, ditto for the ‘Action and Situation Reports issued by the Einsatzgruppen. Loss of live? Yes, there was a war on and Suvorov tells us about the disregard for Russian life, Zhukov the main criminal (Schukow, Lebensweg über Leichen). I talked to a German officer here in Canada, he told me that Russian soldiers kept advancing right into machine gun fire, German soldiers vomiting because of the butchering, but it was kill or be killed. The political commissars threatened any retreating troops with machine guns, the poor Russian soldiers also had no choice.
But this is of course dismissed by ‘historians’, it is easier to just blame the Germans for everything.
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I think in countries really involved with being hit by direct German military operations (Poland, USSR) it's way uncooler than even here in USA to be a revisionist.
Just a couple years ago there was a Polish revisionist and some people started making his life hard and he eventually committed suicide. There's a thread here about him somewhere.
In USSR and Poland the political pressure has got to be even way more than USA, and here it's a lot. Not to mention illegal in those countries. It's illegal in Russia isn't it?
http://rt.com/politics/denial-holocaust ... ussia-853/
There was a proposed bill from March of last year that suggested up to five years in prison for denying the holocaust or portraying Nazis as heroes. The sponsor of the bill was Boris Shpigel. And on a side note, I thought this was interesting, according to his Wikipedia page, "On Spiegel's initiative, monuments of Soviet Red Army soldiers have been erected in the Israeli city of Netanya" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Spiegel
Not sure what the outcome of that bill was though.
A while back I received a letter from an acquaintance, who was on his way to Russia. He wrote that WWII revisionism is alive and well in Mother Russia, in spite of the efforts by Putin & Co to hang on to the status quo. I hope to hear more from him upon his return.
But from what I read in the article on Sorokina, it sounds like it's still a sensitive issue for the Russians. So, while the Holocaust of the Jews may not be the most important event of the war for them, I guess it is inextricably linked to the other myths conjured up by the Soviets that are important or embarrassing to them.
Who controls the present controls the past.
fountainhead wrote:Thanks everyone for the links. It does seem that there are a few Russians who question the exterminationist story, which is good. But I guess what I was really leaning towards is that there might be Russian workers, soldiers or former members of that commission discussed by Sorokina still alive who could come out and admit that they fabricated a lot of their findings in order to villify the enemy or cover up for the Soviets' own crimes.
Evidence provided by the Romanian Securitate in the extradition case in the USA of Romanian Archbishop Trifa was later questioned. Apparently some KGB involvement in the case is discussed in the book Red Horizons by Ion Pacepa (1990). You might also consult Soviet Evidence in North American Courts by S. Paul Zumbakis (1986). However, I can't vouch for the quality of evidence in these books and they appear to relate to well after the war.
for there is no mention of “The Holocaust” in the Moscow Declaration.
The Moscow Declaration "on German atrocities" is rather vague. All it does is claim German atrocities were happening and repeat the Allies' intention to defeat Germany. For some reason or another this document is reproduced at the start of the NMT trial records.
Poland was mentioned above - I've had a couple of friends from Poland and my understanding is that both alleged crimes against Jews and ethnic Poles are basically amalgamated together in their national consciousness.
He would not like the same things happen to russia.
at least , such things would open pandoras box ..... for example open the gates for compensation claims .....
imagine russians would agree , that there are jewish victims , murdered by soviets or died during deportation, evacuation and so on .... the flood of claims would be colossal....
I thing , that millions of russian people having an different experiences with germans and Germany during the war time ...
my grandfather had to russian POWs in our manufacture , both staying until july 1945 in our house TO PROTECT the family from the "liberators"
.... both POWs went after that to westgermany and than : one to Canada and one stayed in BRD ....
they had NO WISH to return to Stalins workers paradies.....
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