Fans had to be ON for killing--not just for venting!

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Friedrich Paul Berg
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Re: The Competent Engineering Design Counter-argument

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 5 years 9 months ago (Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:08 am)

No, that is NOT the same as "forced ventilation" or Kreislauf. The direction that the fan blows is too vague and out of control and inefficient at venting, or circulating, beyond the immediate area around such a fan.

Friedrich Paul Berg

Learn everything athttp://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

Friedrich Paul Berg
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Re: The Competent Engineering Design Counter-argument

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:11 pm)

The following is a more complete answer to a previous post from Hermod in which he suggested that a rather ordinary room fan might have met the need for "forced ventilation" or circulation. Much more would have been needed.

NAZI Railroad Delousing Tunnels for Public Health or Mass Murder!

Prof. Robert Faurisson and his followers insist that gas chambers such as this one could NOT POSSIBLY have been used for mass murder because the corpses would have been impossible to ventilate. He is simply wrong--but even worse is the fact that he willfully suppresses one of the strongest arguments against the hoax. When I first discovered these images in 1982, I thought I had discovered the most dramatic evidence imaginable to undermine the hoax--but I was naive. For many people, I merely made myself into a kind of pariah for suggesting that the facts did NOT support either of two extreme positions; that the gassing claims were self-evident and therefore valid, or that the gassing claims were categorically impossible technically (Faurisson).
Image

The image above shows what a typical, well-designed Kreislauf arrangement had. A powerful blower at the back of the chamber is clearly visible. A supply duct is visible in the lower right of the image. This supply duct directed forced gas from the blower into the chamber from several points along the entire length of the room from the bottom. A return duct just below the ceiling (with two openings visible) takes gas back to the blower to be recirculated again and again throughout the chamber.
Image

The above images show the Budapest gas chamber for delousing and fumigating entire railroad trains, several railroad cars at a time, in Budapest, Hungary. This facility was already in operation before the war and would have been well-known to anyone reading the extensive German technical literature for the use of Zyklon-B and cyanide gas, to keep people alive. This facility, and many others like it, would have been ideal for mass murder but they have never been implicated, ever, in the holocaust gassing claims. Several hundred thousand Hungarian Jews, who were destined to be gassed in 1944, were never gassed here—but were shipped by train instead to Auschwitz-Birkenau, supposedly, to be gassed in cellar rooms with a few holes in the ceilings, without forced ventilation (Kreislauf) or any of the other special features that this Budapest gas chamber contained. If the holocaust hoax persists, the holocaust believers should accuse the Nazis of monumental clumsiness and inefficiency as well.

Could Nazi planners of gas exterminations have possibly been unaware of the ad below and what it reveals? Not likely. Zyklon-B was a dangerous substance for its handlers and required rigorous training, including reading and testing, for all
Image


Above is the actual advertisement for Zyklon-B that was widely used in German pesticide literature to promote its use many applications. Zyklon-B had already been used worldwide since the 1920's, especially by the US Public Health Service to fumigate ships. The railroad delousing tunnel shown in the lower left was typical of similar large chambers used in major eastern European cities. Instead of fumigating empty cattle cars after Jews had disembarked, the same cattle cars with Jews inside could have been “gassed” just as easily before they disembarked. And yet, these wonderful devices were never used for, or even implicated, in Nazi “exterminations” anywhere.

Any realistic homicidal gas chamber using Zyklon-B had to do the following: 1) blow and recirculate warmed air through the Zyklon-B granules and throughout the chamber, and 2) after everyone was dead, blow and recirculate fresh air from outside through the expended granules and then through and out of the chamber. Around 1980 I had this explained to me in a telephone conversation with Robert Grubb from the American Cyanimide Company which was the American distributor of Zyklon-B at that time: "the cyanide gas had to be forced out of the Zyklon-B granules." In other words, "forced ventilation" would have been needed NOT just during the "venting" a-f-t-e-r all the Jews were dead--but during the actual killing phase itself. The repeated claim that "the fans were turned ON a-f-t-e-r everyone was dead" is a major flaw in the holocaust myth. It clearly implies that the fans were OFF during the actual mass killing. It is obvious to me now that this gross error by the hoaxers arose because of subtle differences in meaning of the English word "venting" and the German word Kreislauf. The English word implies merely the "removal" of gas from a room or chamber whereas the German word also includes the blowing or "forced venting" of the gas mixture within and throughout the entire chamber. The addition of the word "forced" is needed in English to explain what is covered with only one word in German. For the non-technical person, "venting" by itself suggests merely removal of gas from a room or chamber as occurs during American gas executions. Those executions use the intense chemical reaction between the cyanide salt and the acid to "force" the cyanide into the chamber. For Zyklon-B, another kind of "force" was absolutely essential. The self-described "eyewitnesses" to alleged Nazi gassings had never witnessed any Zyklon-B murders or else they would have corrected such "technical errors." They had simply been told about American executions and concocted their Zyklon mass murder hoax accordingly.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything athttp://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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hermod
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Re: Fans had to be ON for killing and not just for venting!

Postby hermod » 5 years 9 months ago (Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:04 am)

OK, when they were allegedly gassing millions of Jews to death, the Nazis didn't think about using the CO-rich fumes from the wood gas vehicles driven everywhere in Germany during WW2, the sophisticated gassing machines they had to delouse clothes, the big delousing gas tunnels for trains they had and the large amounts of carbon monoxide they were producing at Auschwitz III as a by-product of coal gasification (synthetic fuel - Buna). But why not use Tabun and Sarin very lethal poison gases to gas Jews?

So, the story goes, that on one hand, the Nazis were using Zyklon B to delouse the camps and thereby prevent the spread of typhus, while on the other hand they were using the same agent to kill the very inmates whose lives they were attempting to save......Based on the development of sophisticated poison gases including Tabun and Sarin, and their manufacture in huge quantities, the official Holocaust story appears absurd. Holocaust historians have yet to answer the question why the Nazis would not have used Tabun or Sarin had they wanted to carry out an extermination of the Jews. .....Had the Nazi leadership wanted to exterminate the Jews of Europe, they had far more sophisticated and lethal means to carry out such a plan. The official Holocaust gassing story requires a suspension of reason and a belief in the absurd.

- German Poison Gas (1914 - 1944) by Richard A. Widmann [2008]

"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

Friedrich Paul Berg
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Re: Fans had to be ON for killing--not just for venting!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 5 years 9 months ago (Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:19 pm)

The issue of the fans being OFF for killing and then ON for venting is technically bizarre and reveals the dirty hands of Americans in the Zyklon mass murder hoax. It was American Jews such as Josef B. Maier who I actually identified on my website, column left, near the very bottom who had a heavy hand in concocting Hoess's so-called confessions. Those "confessions" were, as is now clear, guided by American gas execution technology--and NOT by anything the Germans had been doing with cyanide or Zyklon-B. The Germans would have had the circulating fans or blowers ON for killing and venting. That was the basis of Kreislauf which was the keyword, often stressed and repeated, in many German technical essays describing the Zyklon-B gas chambers already before the war. Switching blowers or fans OFF and then ON makes no sense technically at all for Zyklon-B. There is no mention of anything like that anywhere in the Zyklon technical literature, anywhere, not even in the English language literature about Zyklon-B.
Image


Note that in the above image, the signature of Josef B. Maier is clearly visible in the lower right corner. For much more about the depth of Maier's Jewishness read: http://logosonline.home.igc.org/marcus.pdf The following is from Judith Marcus' linked essay about Maier:
After the War, Maier did voluntary service in Germany and participated in the
Nuremberg Trials ending up as Chief of the Analysis section of the
Interrogation Division. Based on the examined documents, interrogation
transcripts, and protocols, the Division evaluated the involvement of war
criminals in the commission or execution of crimes, ranging from Göring’s role
in the Endlösung, the “final solution of the Jewish Question,” or some of the
German military leaders’ alleged orders to shoot allied POWs, to the German
industrialists’ role in supplying, for example, poison gas to Auschwitz. I
personally heard Joe recount his own interrogation of Göring or Rudolf Hess,
remembering their answers or in some cases, their silence as if it were
yesterday.

His participation and the ensuing reports were, no doubt, immensely useful to
the prosecution, including Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson. Maier
witnessed Rudolf Höss, the Commandant of Auschwitz, make out a note to
him which began: “Ich erkläre,” I declare, and affirming that “during my tenure
in office as Commandant of Auschwitz Concentration Camp, 2 million Jews
were put to death by gassing and one half million by other means.” . . . .

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com (new window)
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

Friedrich Paul Berg
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Re: Fans had to be ON for killing--not just for venting!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 5 years 9 months ago (Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:16 pm)

Zyklon-B releases cyanide gas s-l-o-w-l-y. The release is so s-l-o-w that when the same substance is used to fumigate barracks buildings, for example, 24 hours of exposure are needed before the windows and doors can be opened. An exposure time of 24 hours is roughly fifty times longer than the longest exposure times alleged for mass murder of thousands of Jews with the same substance.

Without forced ventilation or Kreislauf t-h-r-o-u-g-h the Zyklon granules, any mass gassing of Jews would have taken far longer than the three minutes, or ten minutes, or even half hours that are claimed by holocaust hoaxers. Exactly how long is impossible to say with any degree of certainty--but, it is safe to say that it would have taken much longer than 30 minutes to kill everyone. Forced circulation t-h-r-o-u-g-h the granules would have been an easy and almost obvious answer to that problem; that is how the Germans would have done it.

Friedrich Paul Berg

Learn everything at: http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

Friedrich Paul Berg
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Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:16 am

Re: Fans had to be ON for killing--not just for venting!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 5 years 9 months ago (Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:08 pm)

Although my arguments seemed enormously persuasive and correct in 1983, I was naive. I had not reckoned with the pernicious influence and backstabbing from Robert Faurisson. The actual text of Faurisson's speech to the 12th IHR conference in September, 1994 seems to have disappeared, or is even suppressed. If anyone knows where I can find that text, please let me know. Please read: http://www.nazigassings.com/Railroad.html

Here is Faurisson's letter (from 2007, I believe) in which he tries to ridicule my arguments:
Dear Sir,

The argument of Fritz Berg has no value at all. I have told him that to his face. But maybe you are familiar with this unfortunate man's temper and zeal.

The existence of these hangars for the disinfection of trains was known for a long time, and I recall having talked about this during my first visit to the United States in 1979. Among my photo slides, in particular, I had some about a shed for the disinfection of trains (in Budapest?). I have repeated a hundred times, that gassing of inanimate objects, such as clothing, boats, trains, or facilities as sheds, churches, silos, libraries, rooms, etc. would truly be a delicate and dangerous, but not an impossible, operation. It would suffice to take a certain number of precautions, (for example, in order to avoid the spreading of the gas to the outside, explosions, etc.) and to proceed with the aeration, the ventilation of the inanimate objects at the gassing site wherein the gas could still remain. I have written of these procedures.

On the other hand, when the subject is alive, the problem becomes formidable, because the body is entirely impregnated and permeated with a virulent poison. It is for this reason that an execution gas chamber is so complicated, and that is why the doctor and his two assistants have to multiply the precautions. I will not reiterate about all they have to do and which does not guarantee much because even after all that, the corpse to be removed from the chamber, can still be hazardous. One can well imagine the formidable dangers which the piles of corpses would constitute, be they inside a shed, a house, or a so-called Nazi “gas chamber.” There is the rub. Here lies the danger and nowhere else. One ends up with a practical, total impossibility. As to my question of 1978: For me, the mass gassings are technically impossible, yet you, if you think, that this is technically possible, show it to me. You know the answer which you gave me on February 21, 1979: A jest and an admission of incapacity? And since that date I am still waiting for an answer, be it from any practical jokers, or be it from Mr. Berg.

That which the latter could never stand, that a Frenchman, imbued in the culture of classical literature, had made a kind of scientific discovery, which a German or, better yet, especially, an American chemist or engineer should have attained, because, in the United States, gas chamber facilities were present right there within their penitentiaries.

As to that, I remember that in 1917 American humanitarians had the idea that it would be easier and more humane to execute the condemned persons with gas, than with the electric chair, or hanging, or by firing squad. That's when in the course of the construction of a gas chamber the technical difficulties were discovered. After seven years of effort, the first execution took place in Carson City, Nevada, which turned out to be all but a complete catastrophe.

What would Mr. F. Berg have done had it been demanded of him to enter his shed, immediately, or some hours later after an execution in order to remove thousands of corpses, highly impermeated with cyanide, and therefore untouchable? I had put this question to him in public, and he remained silent. I have told him, “study a subject that you have never studied: about the execution gas chambers in your own country.” I remember that an American, who had followed our conversation had then made the remark, “Well, there, at least this is clear!”

Regards,
RF

"What would Mr. F. Berg have done...?" The answers to Faurisson seemed too obvious to bother to spell out. Leave the railroad cars longer for venting in the railroad delousing chamber, for an hour or longer instead of merely half-an-hour. Delousing gas chambers recirculated vast amounts of fresh air through the entire gas chambers providing what in my opinion would have been more than adequate venting. When the bodies would have been handled later, one could have also worn gloves and gas masks just as with executions of American prisoners.
Removing every last trace of cyanide from corpses that were still warm, above the boiling point of cyanide, was hardly necessary so long as one did not intend to sleep overnight with the dead as one might with fumigated mattresses or blankets.

Faurisson has made far too much of the difficulties of handling corpses after gassing. Faurisson's simple-minded line of pseudo-technical arguments are only for those who are too easily persuaded. He made a fool of himself and of holocaust revisionists in general with his technical nuttiness.

The railroad delousing chambers which I discussed at length were almost common in eastern Europe and would have been ideal for mass murder of Jews "w-i-t-h-o-u-t any modifications at all."

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at: http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.


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