My Sobibor Debate Challenge

[Dolma]

This is an extremely simple debate challenge.

Anyone who dares to accept it will first have to answer the following 3 simple questions (as will I), and the debate will follow:

# 1 - Is it true or false that, at - Sobibor - huge pits were filled with bodies, emptied, then refilled with human remains?

# 2 - Is it true or false that, at - Sobibor - there are extant graves which currently contain actual / verifiable human remains?

# 3 - At Sobibor, it is known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that, to date, no less than __?__ extant graves have been discovered in which legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators have - via bona fide, verifiably honest and properly documented forensic science - literally / truly - physically unearthed / tangibly located - actual, verifiable, scientifically proven human remains.

[borjastick]

Don't see why it would be a 'dare', but in any case with those three questions you've effectively ruled out any debate.

[Dolma]

Really borjastick?

If you were a true-believer, who got their "knowledge" from orthodox historical sources, would you answer - True. or False. - to this simple question:

Is it true or false that, at - Sobibor - huge pits were filled with bodies, emptied, then refilled with human remains?

[Moderator]

Really borjastick?

If you were a true-believer, who got their "knowledge" from orthodox historical sources, would you answer - True. or False. - to this simple question:

Is it true or false that, at - Sobibor - huge pits were filled with bodies, emptied, then refilled with human remains?

Dolma:
Please give some background concerning your T or F challenges on Sobibbor. There are some who don't know what you are talking about, Tell us about the pits being filled, emptied, & refilled.
Thanks, M1

[borjastick]

Really borjastick?

If you were a true-believer, who got their "knowledge" from orthodox historical sources, would you answer - True. or False. - to this simple question:

Is it true or false that, at - Sobibor - huge pits were filled with bodies, emptied, then refilled with human remains?

If you take such an aggressive stance, a black or white, take it or leave it, position you will not get many takers. Not here anyway. The average Joe believer may not even know the details of what you ask even though he is committed to the holocaust faith. I am not an expert on Sobibor preferring to concentrate on Treblinka and Auschwitz.

If you want a yes or no answer I suspect the answer is in your favour but by putting up barriers and trying to make the discussion your property you will effectively choke it off. Your questions may make it look like there's an entrance fee. A debate is useless anyway as anyone who sits on the dark side will never ever change their view. What you are trying to do is claim victory on the basis that non one will debate with you because they won't pass the sniff test of your three questions.

[Mortimer]

This is an extremely simple debate challenge.

Anyone who dares to accept it will first have to answer the following 3 simple questions (as will I), and the debate will follow:

# 1 - Is it true or false that, at - Sobibor - huge pits were filled with bodies, emptied, then refilled with human remains?

# 2 - Is it true or false that, at - Sobibor - there are extant graves which currently contain actual / verifiable human remains?

# 3 - At Sobibor, it is known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that, to date, no less than __?__ extant graves have been discovered in which legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators have - via bona fide, verifiably honest and properly documented forensic science - literally / truly - physically unearthed / tangibly located - actual, verifiable, scientifically proven human remains.

There is a movie called ESCAPE FROM SOBIBOR listed at the IMDB. The message board for it is here -
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092978/board/threads/
Perhaps you can post your debate challenge there?

[Hegwood]

What's with all the hem-hawing going on here.

The answer to Dolma's questions are simply: false, false, and false.

At least, there is no reason to believe any of the above answers are true. If there are any mass graves at Sobibor it is about time they were excavated and examined by "legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators have - via bona fide, verifiably honest and properly documented forensic science - literally / truly - physically unearthed / tangibly located - actual, verifiable, scientifically proven human remains." That is precisely what holocaust deniers have been asking for for years,

Hegwood

[Hannover]

What's with all the hem-hawing going on here.

The answer to Dolma's questions are simply: false, false, and false.

At least, there is no reason to believe any of the above answers are true. If there are any mass graves at Sobibor it is about time they were excavated and examined by "legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators have - via bona fide, verifiably honest and properly documented forensic science - literally / truly - physically unearthed / tangibly located - actual, verifiable, scientifically proven human remains." That is precisely what holocaust deniers have been asking for for years,

Hegwood

I agree with you essentially, but the newbie may not know the relevant details of Sobibor and the claims made about it which will help in understanding where Dolma is coming from. IMO it's helpful to lay the groundwork in the OP then issue the challenge.

The tide is turning.

- Hannover

[Dolma]

[Some irrelevant, off-topic text has been removed from this post rather than disallow the entire post. M1]

Dolma:
Please give some background concerning your T or F challenges on Sobibbor. There are some who don't know what you are talking about, Tell us about the pits being filled, emptied, & refilled.
Thanks, M1

OK, here is an example from what could be described as "orthodox historical sources:"

In the camps beginning, mass graves were dug to conceal Sobibor’s victims. By 1942, the Nazis worried that some of the bodies might resurface. In the death camps, there could be no witnesses to what was occurring. All of the victims had to disappear so as Sobibor would remain a secret to the world. The Nazis had all the bodies dug up and burned.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/brmill10/po ... bibor.html[/quote]

[Hegwood]

Dolma,

I don't see any reason why I should regard your the piece you linked to in you post as anything but a piece of fiction. There is not even any traceable reference to an alleged eyewitness testimony much less any tangible evidence or documentation.

With regard to your "orthodox historical source" , you need to know that neither animal carcasses nor human corpses burn. To be destroyed by fire they must be cremated. Effective cremation of a large number of corpses would require crematoria ovens which no one claims ever existed at Sobibor. Assuming that you meant cremated when you said burned, does your source explain how this was done and who witnessed it?

The total silliness of the story you linked to exemplified by the part about the earth moving after bodies were covered with dirt requiring the "Nazis to come in and shoot". The implication I suppose is that some of the alleged victims were still alive. But since anyone buried alive will be dead from suffocation within five minutes for the Nazis to shoot the dirt is comical.

[Moderator]

Hegwood:
Dolma's link, http://filebox.vt.edu/users/brmill10/po ... bibor.html, reflects the exterminationist view, not his / hers.
Thanks, M1

[Hegwood]

From Dolma's challenge to debate, I thought the exterminationist view was his view. If he wants to debate someone who believes in the alleged extermination then I bow out.

Hegwood

[Chanson]

Hegwood:

he answer to Dolma's questions are simply: false, false, and false.

No Hegwood, the answers are:

# 1 - Is it true or false that, at - Sobibor - huge pits were filled with bodies, emptied, then refilled with human remains?

True.

# 2 - Is it true or false that, at - Sobibor - there are extant graves which currently contain actual / verifiable human remains?

True.

# 3 - At Sobibor, it is known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that, to date, no less than __?__ extant graves have been discovered in which legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators have - via bona fide, verifiably honest and properly documented forensic science - literally / truly - physically unearthed / tangibly located - actual, verifiable, scientifically proven human remains.

11.

I dare to accept your Sobibor debate challenge Dolma.

Let's get it on.

[Landulf]

The teethes, Dolma. The teethes. Thats the smoking gun. Should be around 20 millions in the ground at Treblinka, NOT. Sobibor should be the claimed dead x 20.

[Hegwood]

Chanson,

This was Dolma's challenge so I will try to defer to him/her.

Never-the-less starting with point #1, I would like an answer to why I should believe there ever were any "huge pits filled with bodies" at Sobibor? The only testimony I recall reading about Sobibor are disjointed and inconsistent. Was there is an eyewitness who provided a somewhat complete description of the operation of the alleged Sobibor death?