Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby hermod » 7 years 1 week ago (Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:07 am)

Interesting info which I've just found about the "Jewish Star" on the Treblinka tile. Not a Jewish Star (2 intercrossed triangles), but a six-pointed heraldic mullet.

Treblinka tile:
Image

Heraldic mullet:
Image
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... olette.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_(heraldry)

Jewish Star:
Image

Source: http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... =60#p37107
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
Kingfisher
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1673
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:55 pm

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 1 week ago (Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:37 am)

You're behind the curve on this one, hermod. The rest of us have been discussing that for a week.

The age of the tile is not in doubt. Tiles of this design were produced in bulk in Poland during the war by a firm long defunct. They are found all over Poland.

The only issue is whether the tile had been there since the war or if it was planted. I don't see any reason to suspect it was planted. It would be rather stupid to plant a "Star of David" that wasn't one and can quickly be shown not to be. Occam's razor (not always right mind you) says the floor was constructed with these tiles and that most of the undersides are not visible because the concrete or adherent is sticking to them but this is an odd one where the adhesion was poorer.

The "moment of discovery" was clearly done again for the camera, and rather amateurishly.

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby hermod » 7 years 1 week ago (Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:01 am)

Kingfisher wrote:You're behind the curve on this one, hermod. The rest of us have been discussing that for a week.

The age of the tile is not in doubt. Tiles of this design were produced in bulk in Poland during the war by a firm long defunct. They are found all over Poland.


Sorry for not being up to date on that one. :oops:

Are you referring to the example of a Spanish tile posted by Zulu?

What's the name of that Polish firm now defunct?


The only issue is whether the tile had been there since the war or if it was planted. I don't see any reason to suspect it was planted. It would be rather stupid to plant a "Star of David" that wasn't one and can quickly be shown not to be. Occam's razor (not always right mind you) says the floor was constructed with these tiles and that most of the undersides are not visible because the concrete or adherent is sticking to them but this is an odd one where the adhesion was poorer.

The "moment of discovery" was clearly done again for the camera, and rather amateurishly.


I agree on that. It would be stupid to do such a thing. That tends to prove those tiles weren't planted there.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
Haldan
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:56 pm
Location: <secret>
Contact:

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby Haldan » 7 years 1 week ago (Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:19 pm)

hermod wrote:
Kingfisher wrote:You're behind the curve on this one, hermod. The rest of us have been discussing that for a week.

The age of the tile is not in doubt. Tiles of this design were produced in bulk in Poland during the war by a firm long defunct. They are found all over Poland.


Sorry for not being up to date on that one. :oops:

Are you referring to the example of a Spanish tile posted by Zulu?

What's the name of that Polish firm now defunct?


The only issue is whether the tile had been there since the war or if it was planted. I don't see any reason to suspect it was planted. It would be rather stupid to plant a "Star of David" that wasn't one and can quickly be shown not to be. Occam's razor (not always right mind you) says the floor was constructed with these tiles and that most of the undersides are not visible because the concrete or adherent is sticking to them but this is an odd one where the adhesion was poorer.

The "moment of discovery" was clearly done again for the camera, and rather amateurishly.


I agree on that. It would be stupid to do such a thing. That tends to prove those tiles weren't planted there.



I think Kingfisher meant (for example) this post:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8470#p64332

Regards,
-haldan
<?php if ($Holocaust == false ) {deny_repeatedly(); } else { investigate(); } ?>
Homage to Catalin Haldan

cold beer
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 616
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby cold beer » 7 years 1 week ago (Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:16 pm)

Hannover wrote:
hermod wrote:Are data about the degradation of terracotta tiles through time somewhere to be found?
Remember, this is buried terracotta tile (supposedly for ca. 70 years), not roofing tiles set in place with no degrading soil exposure.

- Hannover


Actually I don't believe that the soil itself would degrade these tiles, and I also believe that roof tiles would undergo more stress from freezing/thawing being that ice could get trapped under the tiles due to damming.

But I also think there is a high likelihood that these tiles would have shattered being buried above the frost line.
Look at what happens to concrete driveways and sidewalks over time.
That said I do recognize that the larger surface area of a concrete slab contributes to it being susceptible to cracking.

And although we're dealing with conjecture here, my belief is that these tiles would not have survived intact.
My suspicions about the absence of floor adhesive especially in the tight cavities of the star emblem are even stronger.

User avatar
borjastick
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2844
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
Location: Europe

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby borjastick » 7 years 1 week ago (Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:45 pm)

Look I'm going to the beach this weekend and I'd like to tell everyone in advance that if I find some buried tiles and brick work there I am going to declare that I have found the lost city of Atlantis. Ok?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

cold beer
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 616
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby cold beer » 7 years 1 week ago (Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:15 pm)

Unless there is something like you see in the image below stamped on your tiles that story won't get much traction.
Image

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby hermod » 7 years 4 days ago (Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:44 pm)

Another testimony about tiles in a 'gas chamber' disguised as a shower room:

"The gas chamber was installed in 1943 in a tiled room with working showers. SS men placed small bottles filled with liquid Cyclon B into a ventilation system fitted next to the door that is visible in the photo. When the bottle was broken with a spike, the gas was forced together with warmed air into the gas chamber. The ventilation system cannot be seen in the photo because it was hidden by the SS in the Industrial Yard and was not rediscovered in the transformer shed until shortly after this picture was taken."

Image

Oops. I have forgotten to mention that this was about the Sachsenhausen farcical 'gas chamber' with a window, which the Soviets even destroyed themselves shortly before Austria's independence in the 1950's because it was too ridiculous. :roll:

Here is how it looked like in 1945:
Image
Image

http://sachsenhausen2012.blogspot.be/20 ... amber.html

Okay, the Soviets have patently lied about this tiled 'gas chamber'. But they wouldn't have lied about the Treblinka tiled 'gas chambers', would they? :twisted:
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
borjastick
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2844
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
Location: Europe

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby borjastick » 7 years 4 days ago (Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:02 am)

I just love the caption for this photo;

''The ventilation system cannot be seen in the photo because it was hidden by the SS in the Industrial Yard and was not rediscovered in the transformer shed until shortly after this picture was taken."

It was of course a physical impossibility to pop back with a little thing called a camera and photograph the apparatus they claim was there...

Sachsenhausen was of course the location of several bizarre claims of execution such as a head bashing machine. And isn't it odd that in this case they claim the zyklon B was in liquid form.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

User avatar
spaceboy
Member
Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:04 am

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby spaceboy » 7 years 1 day ago (Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:58 pm)

Here is a must read article about this:

http://newobserveronline.com/smithsonia ... sh-at-all/

The symbol which was claimed to be a "Star of David" is actually a Pierced Mullet Star used by the 125-year old Dziewulski i Lange porcelain factory in Poland.

Image

Image

Image

User avatar
Kingfisher
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1673
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:55 pm

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 1 day ago (Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:04 am)

That's right, spaceboy, though I wouldn't jump to the conclusion of a deliberate hoax (while I wouldn't entirely rule it out, either).

It's just as likely or more that, as I was told, most of the tiles were indeed adhering to the concrete and just these odd pieces (which are not entire tiles) were not. Poor adhesion in places is perfectly credible, though on the other side of that argument, that tile does look remarkably clean. The firm was operating and producing these tiles in large quantities in Poland in the 1940s. Sturdy Colls and her team wanted to find a Star of David and were victims of confirmation bias.

Problem is, of course, that as in all cases like this, the correction will not find it's way into the mass media and into the public consciousness, because there is no one out there in the mass media who is going to take up the challenge. I wonder how many people even today realise that the Bosnian "concentration camp" picture was at best a misrepresentation and the Kuwaiti baby incubators were an out-and-out organised propaganda lie.

User avatar
Inquisitor
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 449
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:40 am

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby Inquisitor » 7 years 6 hours ago (Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:43 am)

Kingfisher wrote:Problem is, of course, that as in all cases like this, the correction will not find it's way into the mass media and into the public consciousness, because there is no one out there in the mass media who is going to take up the challenge.


Indeed - how convenient for the exterminationists and gate-keepers! Peddling the official "holocaust" narrative means never having to say you are sorry...or wrong...or misinformed...or scientifically deluded...or off by a few million here, a few million there...and so forth. :roll:

User avatar
HeiligeSturm
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:57 pm
Location: Euro-Zion

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby HeiligeSturm » 6 years 11 months ago (Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:42 am)

The evil Germans forgot to smash that tile when they dismantled the camp at Treblinka.
Or perhaps they to forgot to attach it to the floor in the first place. Quite cruel.

This must be unused tile as there's no visible marks indicating that it was used in floor (or wall).
Did they use cement or something like that to attach these tiles?
Carol Stulberg: Were you ever in the gas chamber? Did you see the gas chamber?
Morris Venezia: Of course I was every day over there.
Carol Stulberg: Can you describe to us what it looked like?
Morris Venezia: It’s nothing to describe

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby hermod » 6 years 11 months ago (Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:17 pm)

HeiligeSturm wrote:The evil Germans forgot to smash that tile when they dismantled the camp at Treblinka.
Or perhaps they to forgot to attach it to the floor in the first place. Quite cruel.

This must be unused tile as there's no visible marks indicating that it was used in floor (or wall).
Did they use cement or something like that to attach these tiles?


For the white tiles, yes because they were on the walls. For the orange tiles, I don't know.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
Kingfisher
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1673
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:55 pm

Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Smithsonian Special - Treblinka

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 11 months ago (Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:02 am)

My source says the tiles were cemented and on most of the tiles there was still the cement. I don't see anything suspicious here, poor adhesion or a bubble in the cement, or may be just a piece of broken tile left behind on the site by the builders.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests