"The Tubes"

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
TMoran
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 7:00 pm

"The Tubes"

Postby TMoran » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 22, 2002 8:44 pm)

Down the tubes with "The Tube"(s)

With every single camp, Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor there can be some testimony that there was "The tube" through which the Jews were whipped along to the alleged gas chambers.

For an ideal example of what these 'Tubes' would have looked like check out -

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/maps.html

Scroll down to "The Glazer Map". Click where it says in pink lettering, "Click here for Treblinka model ..."

Notice the "tube" is a corridor between two fences from the alleged changing rooms to the alleged gas chambers. Some tales can have it a wire fence with tree branches stuffed in. (Tree branches are the numero uno thing said to have been used as camouflage at all the camps.)

The tubes were supposed to keep outside parties from seeing the Jews being whipped along to the alleged gas chambers. Whether or not the tubes were inside of the compounds themselves makes no difference as to the credibility of such a thing since they are said to have been to keep persons from seeing the alleged process of mass extermination.

Such tales of tubes are totally nonsensical since they would have only blocked out one step in the over all procedure.

For every camp we would have this basic process.

Step 1. with no tube like cover-up. The Jews were brought in by the train loads. Then they were taken off and shuttled into the compounds. There we would have some kind of "selection" process and preparation. The Jews going into buildings, or in some cases right out in the open, taking their clothes off, their hair being shaved off.

Step 2. Then they would be driven into the tubes for their path to the gas chambers. Once there they are gassed.

Step 3, no tube, the bodies taken out to the burial pits.

Of course we would be told that the tubes were to keep the rest of the camp from seeing what was going on and not to keep anyone on the outside from seeing it all. But the rest of the camp and all the civilians in the area would be seeing thousands of Jews arriving everyday and disappearing into the compounds and not going out.

As for the outside world seeing what was going on and any tubes blocking it all? Let us consider the Belzec set-up which all took place on a slope.

Maps, such as we can find at -

http://www.deathcamps.org/belzec/maps.html

Since all the maps are radically different from each other we can focus on the first one "Belzec Map" taken from the book by Yitzhak Arad and showing the "tube".

Check out the 'Topographical Map' on the above site and notice how it all would have been on the side of a slope. (Also notice how there would have been an opposing slope facing the slope on which all the mass extermination would have taken place and would have been an ideal vantage point from which to see everything going on less than a kilometer away.)

According to this Holocaust map and testimonial 'facts' all the 'action' took place some distance up the slope. The distance from the rail spur to the top of the slope is about 250 yards/meters putting the gas chambers on the example map about 200 yards/meters from the rail spur and 25 yards/meters below the top.

Notice how there was supposed to have been "undressing barracks", "hair cutters" and "court yard leading to the 'tube'" a little more than half way up.

We can see on the map that the tube went straight up the slope from the processing compound.

Now we are ready to run through the whole process.

Jews brought in by the thousands in rail cars. The cars are shunted off onto the rail spur and Jews taken off. No tube there. Then without any tube they are directed up the slope some 100 or so yards/meters to the compound where they enter into the building to have their clothes taken away and their hair cut. Then they are directed into the tube. Lets say the tube also had a top cover so no one could see the transition. Thousands of Jews going into the processing building and none going out as far as anyone can see.

Then the Jews arrive at the gas chambers and are gassed. Then the bodies are taken out and distributed to the various mass graves. All that without any cover of any tube.

Many of the maps have the mass graves as just two or three and all located at the top of the slope. The one by Kola has them more or less all over the place. Thus the bodies would have to have been carried anywhere from 50 to 150 yards/meters across open ground without any tube blocking the view.

Later on as the story has it the bodies were disinterred, taken to three or four grates to be cremated which would have involved carrying them across open ground with no tube covering and then there to be piled up on grates and subjected to raging infernos, all with no tube.

Thus all the tube tales and maps that depict them are totally inane seeing how they would have only obscured a small part of the whole alleged process.

User avatar
Sailor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 810
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 6:54 pm
Location: California

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Dec 23, 2002 4:47 pm)

TMoran wrote: Thus all the tube tales and maps that depict them are totally inane
seeing how they would have only obscured a small part of the whole
alleged process.

Interesting observation.

The site quoted has more interesting things to show us. To my knowledge, not a single German document or layout diagram of the camp exists. All these different maps are sheer phantasy and nothing else. And it is amazing how many different versions of the camp layout exist, considering the fact that there were only a few buildings and areas involved.

The first map was made by a Polish surveyor K. Trautsolt who surveyed the site in November 1945 under the supervision of the Polish Judge Lukaszkiewicz, according to Mattogno in his Treblinka book. Except for the orientation, the dimensions as shown on the plan seem to be correct. Trautsolt discovered a burnt out basement and the ruins of a house. The remaining details on this drawing were not discovered by Trautsolt himself but were added later, based on information from witnesses.

A little further down on that site is a layout entitled
"1946 Map, Treblinka map drawn in 1946 by survivor Moszek Laks, named "Mietek"."
Which is interesting: It was drawn up by the witnesses Laks and Platkiewicz while they were peeling potatoes in the basement in Treblinka, and then they escaped with their plan. Their plan did not show the extermination area. Mattogno assumes that they probably did not know at that time that they were in an extermination camp. Laks arrived at the camp in September 1942 and took off in August 1943. The concept of the extermination camp was probably developed later.

Of interest is also the Stangl Map. It is important to note the picture description:
This map was drawn and used as evidence against the Lager- Kommandant Franz Stangl, during the Second Treblinka Trial in 1970. Stangl declared this plan to be "absolutely correct". [...]

Right! That is what that trial was all about now, wasn't it? "Even the SS admitted to have murdered 400,000 Jews …etc, etc." I can hear the believer gang screaming for joy. Stangl was 70 years old at the time of the trial. He died a year later. What happened during that trial? What did the man remember after almost 30 years? What was he hoping for? And where are the massgraves?

A 1944 aerial photo is also shown. The picture is also in John Ball's Air Photo Evidence where it is dated November 1944. It shows two buildings still standing. Ball also shows a picture of the same area dated May 1944, with 5 buildings still standing. Mattogno is puzzled: Who destroyed those buildings and why?

And on, and on.

What then was the purpose of the camp? Mattogno's answer: Clearly a transfer camp where the inmates had to go through a disinfestation process, undressing, cutting hair, bathing, delousing the clothes. After that, transfer to other working camps and resettlements.

According to the court rulings in Düsseldorf, Germany in 1965, the Jews who arrived from Warsaw were greeted in Treblinka as follows:

"Attention Warsaw Jews!
You are in a tranfer camp from where a continued transport to work camps will follow. In order to prevent epedemics all clothes and luggage pieces have to be checked in for disinfestation. Gold, money, foreign currencies and pieces of jewellery have to be handed over against receipt at the cash check-in. They will be returned later after presentation of the receipt.
In order to clean up, all arrivals have to take a bath prior to the continuation of their journey."
(Source: Mattogno's Treblinka, also Rückert's NS Vernichtungslager).

Mattogno does not understand why the Jews had to take a bath first before being gassed with combustion engine exhaust fumes.

And to be honest, I don't understand that either!

User avatar
Scott
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 7:00 am

Postby Scott » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Dec 23, 2002 7:35 pm)

Sailor wrote:Mattogno does not understand why the Jews had to take a bath first before being gassed with combustion engine exhaust fumes.

I think the standard story is that the bath part was just a ruse to get them into the gaschambers. But I don't see how this deception could have worked with thousands of bodies being burned on a barbecue grill just a few yards away.

Also it seems questionable that valuables would have been kept against a receipt and not simply seized, though this could have been a ruse to get them to surrender the goods easier.

And if streetclothes were taken then we would expect huge shipments of prison duds to be issued at the camp--more documentation to look for.
:)

TMoran
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 7:00 pm

Postby TMoran » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Dec 23, 2002 8:15 pm)

Sailor said along the way:
'A 1944 aerial photo is also shown. The picture is also in John Ball's Air Photo Evidence where it is dated November 1944. It shows two buildings still standing. Ball also shows a picture of the same area dated May 1944, with 5 buildings still standing. Mattogno is puzzled: Who destroyed those buildings and why?

And on, and on.

What then was the purpose of the camp? Mattogno's answer: Clearly a transfer camp where the inmates had to go through a disinfestation process, undressing, cutting hair, bathing, delousing the clothes. After that, transfer to other working camps and resettlements.'

================================

Most likely the buildings seen in the aerial recon shots of Treblinka were scavenged by Polish civilians for building materials.

At Auschwitz-Birkenau there was a process of dismantling going on in Dec.44. Aside from the Cremas, which it's claimed the Germans were destroying evidence, we see in the aerial recon shots that barracks in the women's camp were being dismantled. Then too there was the whole of the Monowitz camp, (Auschwitz III) that was built up and then dismantled having never been used. Since all this dismantling was done near the end, when the Germans were engaged in retreat, it seems unlikely that they would have been the ones who wanted the materials. Then too we have a couple of photos of Polish civilians scavenging the remains of Cremas IV and V after the Russians had taken over. Then too, much of the rest of the camp is gone today which means those hundreds of buildings were torn down for other reasons than destroying evidence. And then we would have Morris' movie "Mr.Death" showing some Birkenau brick that had been incorporated into a civilian's barn.

Since we have some 5 buildings showing up in the May 44 shot of the Treblinka site and only 2 in the Nov.44 shot we would be pretty safe in saying the missing ones were torn down in the interim of those dates and not directly after the Holocaust story tells us the Germans closed down the extermination camp and preceded to immediately raze everything. Why would the Germans have done an aerial recon of the area in Nov.44? Probably because they had already pulled out and were looking for Russian activity which would have put the latter in the area in Nov.

==============================================
Sailor continued:
According to the court rulings in Düsseldorf, Germany in 1965, the Jews who arrived from Warsaw were greeted in Treblinka as follows:

"Attention Warsaw Jews!
You are in a transfer camp from where a continued transport to work camps will follow. In order to prevent epidemics all clothes and luggage pieces have to be checked in for disinfestation. Gold, money, foreign currencies and pieces of jewellery have to be handed over against receipt at the cash check-in. They will be returned later after presentation of the receipt.
In order to clean up, all arrivals have to take a bath prior to the continuation of their journey."
(Source: Mattogno's Treblinka, also Rückert's NS Vernichtungslager).

==============================================

If the place that is said to have been the Treblinka extermination camps was used at all it would have been for short term processing of persons being shipped around. Something with temporary shelters, like tents and portable mess facilities.

But then again maybe it was just a field with an existing rail spur which would have made it an ideal place to be selected by the Russian instigators of the Holocaust story. After all that's how they went about selecting various places like Belzec and Sobibor. Places that already had existing rail spurs for other reasons.

If the Treblinka area was in fact a layover, transition place it would or could have been at the Malkinia camp which was a real barracked area we can see in the aerial recon shots not too far from the field.

[ In the aerial recon shots of Treblinka we can see it was set about half way between two villages, each only about a kilometer away and showing enough buildings that would house hundreds of civilians. Now is that any place to put a facility for mass extermination? Well, hell, if they put extemination camps almost on Main Street at such places as Auschwitz, Chelmno, Belzec and Majdanek you might as well put one at Treblinka.]

User avatar
Sailor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 810
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 6:54 pm
Location: California

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Dec 23, 2002 11:51 pm)

Scott wrote: I think the standard story is that the bath part was just a ruse to get them into the gaschambers.

Yes, that is so.

If one believes that at least 700,000 Jews were gassed with diesel engine exhaust fumes in Treblinka (or with vacuum, quicklime, electricity, steam, steam+poison)he will have no problems finding plenty of witness reports testifying to all of that.

Mattogno does not believe this, and he quoted an article by Pressac "Enquete… " of 1995, based on witness reports which describe the sequence of first disrobing, then bathing, then suffocation in an experimentation room, which is adjacent to a furnace room, and from there railroad tracks to the cemetery. Pressac believes that all three camps, Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka, were transfer camps and were equipped with disinfestation equipment for clothes.
Mattogno further refers to a report in a book by Silverstein Die Judenausrottung in Polen, 1944,
[…]the people were first sent to the bathrooms for disinfestation. After the bath they were temporarily transferred to cells. There they were told to wait until it was their turn."

And the Polish Informacja biezaca of August 17, 1942 alleged that in Treblinka "the total number of inmates on August 5 was 40,000 Jews", which would indicate an internment of the deportees after the bath.

Mattogno also lists numerous locations, camps, settlements in Poland, the Baltics and in Russia with documented Jewish populations, who came from the Warsaw area via Treblinka.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests