David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Werd » 6 years 2 weeks ago (Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:54 pm)

hermod wrote:
Mala wrote:Does anyone know how many non jews Cole believes were killed at these four camps?


Don't say that non-Jews were killed at the Reinhardt camps and Chelmno or Holohoax promoters will go mad, the same way Thomas Blatt did in 1987 when he discovered that Communist Poland was claiming that Soviet POWs, Poles and Gypsies had also been killed at Sobibor. :roll:

01:40-06:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v78KTbU922c

Here is the exchange.
What hurts me as a jew and one of the few survivors, I'm afraid that maybe in 10 years, all will be falsified. In the sign over there, the first mentioned are "250,000 Soviet POW's" Next the sign says "Jews, Poles and Gypsies." Not true. (The POW's were Jews, the Poles were Jews, and there were no Gypsies.). Now the church is here. In 10-20 years nobody will know Jews were annihilated here.

Let me show you something. This is a Mass for Sobibor, written by the well known Austrian composer Austreicher. The entire story of Sibobr is told in the music. This is the composer's forward. and this is my forward.

And this is yours?

This is my forward here.

Show me anywhere the word JEW.

Jew?

Crucifix I can see...altar in Sobibor

Maybe it's in my forward...This is dedicated to the pope and he accepted it. There is another writing, my life story. There...there is this...

I told him in plain language and he still did not understand is that I have a vision about this future chapel. That 25 years from now, people will come and kneel in front of the cross and pray for some uknown Christian. I told him it hurt me because they had killed us Jews. And simply that didn't make a dent. My battle is a losing battle.

I think he is more upset and afraid that Jews will not get mentioned at all in any capacity. I don't think he gives a damn if POW's are mentioned, as long as their racial/cultural heritage is mentioned. He is bewildered that there is a cross but not a menorah or a star of david to remind people of who else was in the camp. In terms of pure historical accuracy, yes, Jews were interred in the camp. So if there is any proof that ethnic Poles and ethnic Russians were in the camp, that would put a nail in the coffin for Thomas Blatt, a so called survivor of a gas chamber death factory.

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby cold beer » 6 years 2 weeks ago (Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:10 pm)

Blatt just can't seem to believe what he's experiencing.
After decades of peddling his (inconceivable) stories the people building this memorial, for the most part, don't even acknowledge that he's even there.
You can almost see "don't you know who I am?" written all over his face.
But It just keeps going in one ear and right out the other.
Last edited by cold beer on Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby cold beer » 6 years 2 weeks ago (Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:43 pm)

I have a strong suspicion that the translation isn't accurate.
I have a hard time believing (at the 1:50) that the monk would say that eyewitnesses from the area said that only Jews died there and then go on to say it should not be a memorial exclusively for Jews.
It sounds incoherent and leads me to suspect it might be a distortion intended to rile up indignation.

Does anyone speak Polish who could tell us if the translation is accurate?

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Moderator » 6 years 2 weeks ago (Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:44 am)

Forumites:
Thread Check time.
There's some good posts in this thread, some even about David Cole's book. :roll:
I'm considering moving some of the posts to more specifically related threads. That's a lot of bloody work though. What do you think?
Thanks.
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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Werd » 6 years 2 weeks ago (Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:13 pm)

Well given my guilt at prolonging the discussion about Thomas Blatt, I think those relevant posts could stand to be their own topic.

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Bonesy » 6 years 2 weeks ago (Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:16 am)

Moderator wrote:I'm considering moving some of the posts to more specifically related threads. That's a lot of bloody work though. What do you think?

Yes, just keep this thread to talking strictly about the book. Any specifics ought to go in their respective threads as per forum rules. I haven’t quite finished his book yet but it's been a good read so far!
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Mala » 6 years 2 weeks ago (Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:42 pm)

David Cole wrote about Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka:

...There is a strong, in my opinion very strong, circumstantial case that the aforementioned four camps were killing centers.

...

...And whereas I can make a case that a majority of Jews sent to those camps were sent there to be killed,..

The contemporaneous Nazi documents make clear the raison d’être of those camps...

However, regarding my belief that the camps were one-way stops for the majority of Jews sent there, that I can prove with exceptionally strong evidence.


And where are the remains of all these dead jews David?

There are 75 alleged mass graves in which the remains of all these allegedly killed jews are interred: http://www.nafcash.com/

Which begs the simple question for David Cole to answer:

How many of the 75 so-called “huge mass graves” claimed to exist at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka ( II ) can you prove - with the utmost certainty - contain the remains of at least 19 bodies?

Just think of all the vodka Cole could buy with $75,000.00?

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby ivam » 6 years 2 weeks ago (Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:14 am)

I like that challenge site, if you look at the statistics, it shouldnt be hard to find the teeth of 6 bodies considering there is 28 billion teeth supposedly at treblinka. Yet no one has claimed the price? one must wonder why :)

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby diaz52 » 6 years 1 week ago (Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:16 pm)

Finished the book and here's my conclusions:

Firstly, its a very entertaining read. He's led a very interesting life. However to be honest, stories of Jews 'making it' in Hollywood just don't impress me. I don't mean to be rude but it just isn't nearly the accomplishment he makes it out to be. I mean they run the place. So a guy with an obviously Jewish name like 'David Stein' becoming a mover and a shaker in Hollywood is like an incredibly hot chick 'making it' in the porn business, lol. I mean c'mon. Having said that, the book is very humorous and insightful, a sort of behind the scenes look at a world populated with exciting actors and famous people. So again its a very entertaining book.

Secondly, at one point he provides the most pivotal line in the book, in that he states (and I'm paraphrasing): I tried the truth in the 1990s, and people didn't like it. That sums it up right there. He went down that path and saw that it led nowhere, at least from his point of view. Perhaps he was just ahead of his time, as he points out at that time before the internet you had 'media gatekeepers' and editors who would chop up any interview you gave with the intent of making you look foolish or like a hater, etc. You couldn't get around that at the time. Add to this the personal attacks and the price on his head and you can see why he walked away from revisionism.

Thirdly, he makes a big deal about the difference between Holocaust revisionism and Holocaust denial, the former being (in his opinion legitimate and latter being 'beyond the pale'). His last line of the appendix is a stark statement about this:

"As long as the "outing" has renewed interest in my old work, I might as well try to explain myself, as I don't want anyone- friend or foe- to think that I ever "denied the Holocaust.""

I personally haven't ever thought of there being much of a gulf between the two ideas or terms. I think he's making a distinction without a difference for rhetorical reasons. He's saying "Yeah, okay, I'm a Holocaust revisionist. But those guys over there, those Holocaust Deniers, they're the real villains. They're the ones you want to attack, not me." LOL.. Gee thanks Dave.

Fourth, boy he really goes after people personally. And I don't mean just the ones that 'disowned' him after the outing, which he is understandably bitter about. But also guys like the fat guy from Oregon who cleans out septic tanks. Wow, he dogs that guy big time in a personal way long before the outing. Talk about taking a two-by-four to the head of an easy target- a fat gentile worker bee from a pissant nothing town who wears a CPAP at night. Classy, Dave. Real classy. And he does that to numerous 'nobodies' who slighted 'The Great David Cole/Stein' in some way or another, like the fat hispanic 'chauffeur' guy. He pretty much displays a classically Jewish arrogance in his dealings with 'stupid and cowardly' gentiles. Whatcha gonna do. To be fair though, David does pretty much say that he's an asshole and then for much of the book goes on to prove it again and again.

And lastly, its obvious that he's taken the following tactic to try and salvage some measure of respectability. He cannot deny what he so powerfully argued in the 1990s as its right there on his film and on the talk show videos for all to see. However that information was in regards to Auschwitz. So his argument now is 'yes I said those things about Auschwitz, but that's all. I basically believe the rest of the Holocaust story, with regards to Belzec, Sobibor, Chelmno and Treblinka,' although he believes the German policy became one of using the Jews for labor and not for extermination as the German war effort soured. So what does someone who gets caught with this hand in the cookie jar say? They say 'yes i did it, but that was the only time i did it.' He's cutting his losses in the hopes of salvaging some remnant of his reputation. As a poster already commented, he's pulling a David Irving.

Personally I like both David Irving and David Cole. Both have paid a price personally for their beliefs. I don't begrudge either of them a bit. In a better world they wouldn't have had to go through these contortions to try and clear their names and live peacefully and productively, doing what they do best. Cole is a fascinating figure and I certainly wish him well.

Is there disappointment at his obvious waffling? Yeah, there is. I was hoping to send this book to my brother and some friends to idk get them to consider Holocaust revisionism and not merely dismiss it. This book could have had the power to do so. Maybe it still does. I do know that his 'Auschwitz' video did a lot to help me and others change their whole perspective on this great, powerful and destructive lie- it allowed us to see beyond the illusion and behind the curtain at the man working the levers. And for that I'll always be grateful.
-You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
-The establishment can't control the web, and the control of information through all means but one, is no control at all.

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Inquisitor » 6 years 1 week ago (Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:07 am)

Great analysis diaz52!

I think the question for me is simply this - is Cole/Stein a help or hindrance to "holocaust" Revisionism at this point? While his early work will always be respected for what it was, one cannot dismiss his Irving-esque belief in much of the official narrative, while continuing to essentially argue against the claims at Auschwitz alone. Supporting the now thoroughly debunked claims of the "Reinhardt Camp" murder-mills without a shred more tangible evidence than that found at Auschwitz, is not exactly intellectually-consistent, to say the least. Moreover, this sort of half-measures approach leaves tons of "ammunition" for the enemies of Revisionism to latch onto - "see, even 'deniers' like David Cole/Stein believe there WAS a holocaust, and that this or the other thing, DID occur, at such and such camp, blah, blah..."

Obviously, any exposure to the truth is a good thing...in theory. But when too many half-truths and arbitrary observations, or sins of omission, if you will, dominate the project, I can't help but think that no, this isn't really helping the cause after all.

Perhaps I'm missing something...

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby diaz52 » 6 years 1 week ago (Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:31 am)

Inquisitor wrote:Great analysis diaz52!

I think the question for me is simply this - is Cole/Stein a help or hindrance to "holocaust" Revisionism at this point? While his early work will always be respected for what it was, one cannot dismiss his Irving-esque belief in much of the official narrative, while continuing to essentially argue against the claims at Auschwitz alone. Supporting the now thoroughly debunked claims of the "Reinhardt Camp" murder-mills without a shred more tangible evidence than that found at Auschwitz, is not exactly intellectually-consistent, to say the least. Moreover, this sort of half-measures approach leaves tons of "ammunition" for the enemies of Revisionism to latch onto - "see, even 'deniers' like David Cole/Stein believe there WAS a holocaust, and that this or the other thing, DID occur, at such and such camp, blah, blah..."

Obviously, any exposure to the truth is a good thing...in theory. But when too many half-truths and arbitrary observations, or sins of omission, if you will, dominate the project, I can't help but think that no, this isn't really helping the cause after all.

Perhaps I'm missing something...


Thank you Inquisitor. And yes I think you're right about it not helping the cause very much compared to what it could have been, and that's a shame. This could have been a huge leap forward. There's no question about it, that this was a let down. His waffling has diluted the impact that the book could have had. But I don't think its a total loss.

My brother, whom I love dearly, is very much a case in point. I had spoken with him for years about this topic, and as he's become a born again evangelical and a Christian zionist we've all but ceased communicating. Not that it matters but I myself am a Catholic. I say not that it matters as I do know a good many evangelicals who are not Israel-worshippers as so many have sadly become. However back to my point, I remember my brother did once email me a link to an article on David Irving. The article was after David had been released from prison and he was doing his groveling & back tracking, as his way of waving the white flag to the Judeo-supremacists. And my brother's statement in the email was: "See? Even this guy who you've spoken about in the past admits that millions of Jews were exterminated by the Nazis."

So the damage had been done. I replied that Irving is doing what he felt he had to, to save whats left of his tattered future, and his daughter's future, that he'd paid a heavy personal price, indeed his very freedom for a year for speaking about what he believed, etc. However it sounded weak, like a rationalization, like a stretch. I believe it to be true but it doesn't sound very convincing.

I was really excited about Cole's book I guess for four main reasons:

First, Cole bypasses the first line of defense of the establishment that Holocaust deniers/revisionists are 'haters and anti-semites, due to Cole being a Jew. And the whole 'self-hating Jew' thing doesn't have nearly the impact of calling someone a racist or an anti-semite. So they can't and always couldn't throw those powerful slurs at him.

And secondly, I was expecting and hoping his book would be argued as intelligently, passionately, and as effectively as his work from the 90's. And while he's still very bright even with his CVS discount vodka sauce addled brain, his waffling sucks all the conviction and passion out of his work. His shockingly frank revelations about his sessions of self gratification were amusing though, lol. And his sense of humor is still sharp, and made for an entertaining read if nothing else.

Thirdly, his book was being sold in stores like Walmart and Barnes & Nobles. The whole 'replublican party animal' aspect of his story seemed to have allowed the Holocaust revisionist aspect of the book to fly under the radar of the censors. It's even being sold in Germany for Heaven's sake. That's something positive right there. It could and probably has reached a lot of people that books that deal with this subject normally do not. The impact clearly won't be what it could have been but it may cause some to pause and think twice about what they've been told about Auschwitz particularly.

And lastly, I was sure that an effective presentation of his revisionist views would lead people to seek out his videos on youtube, both his excellent 'David Cole interviews Dr. Franciszek Piper' and his Donahue and Montel Williams videos. And on this point, his book probably will do this. So this isn't a total loss.

And on the bright side Cole's recent work such as his 'Museum of Tolerance Caper' and his audio tapes of Michael Schermer making various admissions are great, great stuff.

So it's a letdown but its not a total loss. We didn't get the grand slam we were hoping for but maybe we ran a batter in. Good can still come of it. I haven't decided if I'm going to send a copy of it to my brother, but I may. We'll see.
-You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
-The establishment can't control the web, and the control of information through all means but one, is no control at all.

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Inquisitor » 6 years 1 week ago (Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:54 pm)

diaz52 - the story you relate with your brother is (as you obviously know) precisely the type of scenario I was alluding to. I want to believe that this book wasn't a total loss - and I do hope that this will prove to be the case. My fear is that most people (like your brother) will do as people naturally do - that is to say, they will simply gloss over the...shall we say, 'inconvenient' aspects (Auschwitz), and latch onto the more "comfortable" assertions (by Cole, Irving, etc.) that the 'rest of it' really DID happen as stated, and thus, the broader Revisionist message is more or less lost (or worse, "disproven") entirely. Thus, the real deniers of truth will say, so what if a few details aren't 100% true - on the whole it STILL happened, and hence Revisionism is ultimately just "nit-picking" and all the usual accusations.

In the broadest sense - what I dislike most about this whole matter is that it (intentionally or not) ultimately supports the notion that there WAS an official, concerted effort to murder/exterminate Jews on the part of the Reich. (or at least by Himmler alone as Irving inexplicably insists) So long as that assertion stands or is supported(whether wholly or in part) the rest is just academic, and likely lost on all but us precious few, who are crazy enough to actually believe that the whole truth needs to be told, otherwise it's not truth at all! In the same way none of the gate-keepers or Exterminationists care that a high-priest like Hilberg doesn't even claim 6-million murdered, yet the official total always remains 6-million - "unimportant details," they will dismissively snort, "just details."

I hope I'm not belaboring the point here. I just had high, if cautious, hopes for this book. I no longer feel very positive about it at all.

Now we can all wait for that Irving Himmler tome to ice the proverbial cake! :roll:

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 6 years 1 week ago (Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:17 am)

I like your insights Diaz!

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 1 week ago (Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:14 am)

I can't say how much in what I am about to put forward is a valid analysis, but I can't help thinking:

Cole's new book is getting a pretty big circulation, it's selling in the mainstream, carried by the major book stores. It's being distributed in countries where revisionism is illegal, even in Germany. It's presenting some strong revisionist arguments to people who otherwise would never be exposed to them, but who may well be open to debate on the subject.

How much of this could Cole have got through if he "denied the Holocaust" as a whole? So he presents his known views on Auschwitz, but makes a distinction between Revisionists and Deniers, placing Zundel and Faurisson in the latter category and openly expressing his personal dislike for them. He adds that he believes that the Reinhard camps were death camps, but presents zero evidence in support beyond his own conviction. Since then he has not made any public statement about them.

Could it be he has done an open or covert trade-off whereby his book gets published and gets wide distribution in return for not going beyond what he had earlier embraced? His dislike for Zundel seems personal and genuine, but he makes a clear distinction between this and Zundel's right to express himself and not be imprisoned for it, which he has defended on film.

Unfortunately he's hooked on the demon drink, even openly swigging from the bottle on his videos. Very sad.

Revisionists have to take a mixed view on all this. It is a blow that Cole is not supporting them on Treblinka, etc., but on the other hand his questioning of Auschwitz and his defence of the Revisionists' right to be heard, including on those issues where he appears to disagree with them is being asserted to a whole new public, who will be encouraged to go and look further. At the same time he is evidence against the picture that only died-in-the-wool Nazis, racists and anti-Semites question the official story.

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Dresden » 6 years 1 week ago (Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:12 am)

Kingfisher said:

".....he is evidence against the picture that only died-in-the-wool Nazis, racists and anti-Semites question the official story"

That's right, Kingfisher.

Now we can say:

"See, people.....it's not only died-in-the-wool Nazis, racists and anti-Semites that question the official story.....even delirious drunks question it in their drunken stupors, as they guzzle from their bottles and poison their minds"'
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith


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