Mengele? Does Revisionism discuss him?

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Hannover
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu May 03, 2007 8:51 am)

Gertrud wrote:
PLAYWRIGHT wrote:Secondly, at the time, Kor was an ten-year old Hungarian girl raised in Romania. Mengele didn't speak Hungarian (one of the world's most difficult languages), and she didn't speak German. I'm dying to know how she could have understood what he said.

German was widely understood in the northwestern parts of Romania which had belonged to the Austro-Hungarian empire.

The Austro-Hungarian empire ended in 1918. There is no reason to believe that a 10 year old Hungarian girl, raised in Romania, and born many years after the Austro-Hungarian empire, was taught German. A trilingual ten year old, I don't think so.

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Postby Henry » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu May 03, 2007 10:37 am)

Just because the Austro-Hungarian empire ceased to exist in 1919 (not 1918, it was the Treaty of Saint-Germain that dissolved the Empire), it doesn't mean that people in those areas stopped knowing, or even learning German. There wasn't a 'population transfer' of ethnic Germans, as there was after the Second World War, so we can also assume ethnic Germans remained in the area. There were, after all, German speakers in the Sudetenland and Poland in 1938 and 1939, were there not?

This Kor woman was ten-years-old when she was with Mengele in Auschwitz? So she's born in, let's say, 1932. Her parents would certainly have known German and they may have spoken it to her. In fact, they may have spoken it at home on a regular basis - many Jewish and Slavic families living in certain areas of Austria-Hungary did because many of them were of mixed ethnic background. I recently read a biography of Odilo Globocnik. He was apparently Slovenian, Austrian and Hungarian. He was raised speaking German.

Teaching of German continued right up until the end of the Third Reich in Central and Eastern Europe, by the way, because it was the language of philosophy and science.

There exists a third possibility. If she was a rural Jew then she spoke Yiddish, which has a thirty or maybe forty percent comprehension level with German. 'Good enough for government work' as I've heard some Yanks say.

As for the possibility of a ten-year-old being able to speak three languages, I know anecdotal evidence isn't the best, but I know a woman who speaks three languages and was fluent in all of them by the time she was able to speak in full sentences. Her father was German and her mother was Greek, but she was raised here in Britain, so they English as well.

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Postby Breker » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu May 03, 2007 10:58 am)

We found this bit at:
http://www.vho.org/VffG/1997/3/Kor.html
Kors is looked into, a snipet:
Now we have the reason of all this fuss. Some old ladie, afraid of dying, imagines that, ages ago, she and her sister have received a mysterious substance from the evil doctors down there in A. This looks like a story for "X-files". The truth is elsewhere. Now they start criticizing the Nuremberg highly selective way of collecting documents (a possibility which was denied to the defense counsels). Now they realize that Nuremberg itself is a heavily biased approach of history, done in the name of immediate political and military needs, including the consolidation of Soviet occupation of half Europe.

Eva Mozes was born in a Rumanian village in 1934. Same region as arch-liar Elie Wiesel. From Auschwitz she returned, with her twin sister, to Rumania, and then to Israel (1950-1960).

Breker

LE TEMPS IRREPARABLE
Paris, 24 October 1998
[email protected]
Fugit irreparabile tempus

JUST ANOTHER AUSCHWITZ LIAR

Dr. Münch, 87, "gave" a testimony to Bruno Schirra, an "independent" journalist; it was published in Der Spiegel on Sept. 26, 1998. He has been a SS physician in Auschwitz in 1943 and after. The greatest suspicion should be exercised before accepting this statement, mostly because the son of the old man wrote to the weekly to express his amazement. He said the mind of his father has been "weakened" since two years. He thinks his father's sentences, over the phone, have been "either misunterstood or misinterpreted".

We have now a declaration he signed in 1995, presumably at a time his mind was not yet too much threatened by senility. Here is the affidavit he gave to a to Mrs Eva Mozes Kor in January 1995 in Auschwitz:

I, Dr. Hans Münch hereby attest that, as an SS physician on duty in Auschwitz in 1944, I witnessed the selection process of those who were to live and those who were to die. Other SS physicians on duty in the camps made selections at the platform where the transports arrived. They also made selections in the barracks. I was exempt from performing selections because I had refused to do so.

I further attest that I saw thousands of people gassed here at Auschwitz. Children, old people, the sick and those unable to work were sent to the gas chambers. These were innocent human beings: Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, Hitler's political opponents -- anyone who did not fit Hitler's idea of a pure Aryan race.

I am signing this paper of my own free will to help document the cruel intolerance of my fellow SS.

I, a former SS physician, witnessed the dropping of Zyklon B into simulated exhaust vents from outside the gas chamber. Zyklon B began to work as soon as it was released from the canisters. The effects of the gas were observed through a peephole by an assigned doctor or the SS officer on duty. After three to five minutes, death could be certified, and the doors were opened as a sign that the corpses were cleared to be burned. This is the nightmare I continue to live with fifty years later.

I am so sorry that in some way I was part of it. Under the prevailing circumstances I did the best I could to save as many lives as possible. Joining the SS was a mistake. I was young. I was an opportunist. And once I joined, there was no way out.

Dr. Hans Münch
January 27, 1995, Auschwitz

Assuming the author of the statement to be healthy at the time, we can easily identify a series of lies. We use here the word "lies" on purpose. As it will be shown, it is not possible that certain statements which are contrary to the truth were made by accident.

As a physician, he "witnessed" the "selection" at the platform (the "Ramp") but did not take part in them:
Very unlikely. The platform was outside of the main camps. You could not be there and "witness" if you had no official business there. If he did not participate in the "selection" (which, in itself, is a cause for condemnation in German courts), then he had no business being there and he describes the scene from reading it in books written after the war. This cannot be believed. Either he was ordered to participate in "special treatments" leading to the death of inmates and he is lying to hide his guilt, or he never received such an order, and he lies about his alleged "resistance". In his Spiegel interview, he says he worked with Dr. Mengele, "a charming man", and that he just "refused" to do what he had been told to do. But at the same time he says that he injected pus in prisoners' gums, to experiment on "human material". If Mengele was only a tiny fraction of the evil man recounted by the orthodox histories of the camp, Dr. Münch would not be in a position to tell us his story now. Rebellion in the SS carried a heavy sentence. Or Dr. Mengele was not the man described in late stories and the reason why Dr. Münch did not participate in an extermination programs was that there was no such program in Auschwitz at the time. He adds that once he had joined the SS, he could not quit, which is quite untrue.

He saw thousands of people being "gassed" in Auschwitz. He says: "anyone who did not fit Hitler's idea of a pure Aryan race". This statement is totally absurd. Tens of millions of people who "did not fit Hitler's idea of a pure Aryan race" did survive the Nazi period, including hundreds of thousands in the camps. Dr. Münch betrays here a will to conform to the ideological needs of the present state in Germany.

He "witnessed the dropping of Zyklon B into simulated exhaust vents "from outside the gas chamber". The trouble is that there is no hole on the ceiling, as can be verified today by inspecting the ruins of the gas chambers, still visible in Auschwitz concentration camp. Dr. Faurisson has called the world's attention to this FACT: there are no holes in the concrete slab which was the ceiling. Now the handful of testimonies recognized in the trials all mention or suppose the existence of holes to "introduce" the poison into the "chambers". But the physical evidence shows that these stories are not fitting with reality. The description given by Dr. Münch is a physical impossibility. But it can be found in a number of books and "testimonies" of other liars, like Dr. Vrba, Dr. Niyszli and such like. These testimonies must now be either amended -- and a new explanation of the technique of poisoning should be quickly discovered -- or abandoned, with the story of the gassings itself.

But the most enormous lie is in the following sentence: "After three to five minutes, death could be certified, and the doors were opened as a sign that the corpses were cleared to be burned". All this is utterly impossible, contradicts the laws of physics and chemistry and is a pure invention. This man is just quoting worn out literary precedents. He is not as creative and inventive as Wilkomirski.

Maybe the most disgusting is his assertion, without qualification, that he contributed to save as many lives as he could. If anyone can believe this, then this would open a new window in the area of Jewish gullibility, which, we have reckoned already, is limitless when the magic word "Holocaust" is pronounced.

In another statement reproduced on the CANDLES website, he declared: "I had to watch the operation of the gas chambers and then, when the bodies were dead, I had to sign the death certificates."

Now, here again, the man is playing on several sides of the reality. It is true that the death of one inmate triggered a flow of papers. We know from former Polish members of the camp administration that twenty-one signatures were required for an ordinary death (33 in case of unnatural death). And Münch comments on the general bureaucracy: "You had to sign a lot: that was top secret. That was just a formality." But the catch is in the official history: there were no death documents for those allegedly "gassed". The official history mentions days when 2000 people were allegedly gassed. If we stick to that history, Münch is a liar when he says he signed for the gassed dead bodies. And if we get away from the official history, Münch is a liar because there was no gassing. Which lie is the most profitable in Germany today?

Münch proudly proclaimed that "...a string of my prisoners spoke up for me..." at his 1947 trial in Poland, where he was acquitted.

From another message by the same source (Witte): "Since 1943 Dr. Münch was occupied in the "Hygienisch-Bakteriologische Untersuchungsstelle der Waffen-SS und Polizei Südost" in Auschwitz-Rajsko.
The problem is that Rajsko is an external subcamp, devoted to agricultural research and specially the development of plants that could be used in the production of naturel rubber (Ersatzgummi). Some scholars have insisted that revisionist author Thies Christophersen, who had been at Rajsko, was disqualified because being there precluded any possibility to observe what was happening in the Stammlager or Birkenau. This should then be extended to Dr. Münch who was apparently in the same situation.

"According to testimonies of survivors, who had been working with him in the "Rajsko Laboratory", for the Krakowian Auschwitz Trial of 1947 he however refused taking part in selections on the ramp and attending gassings any longer so that consequently on his own initiative he needn't in future either. Generally speaking his attitude and behavior towards prisoners was judged very positively by these survivors in 1947."

"What makes it difficult to bring him to court once again ( ne bis in idem ), is the fact that he was the only one of 40 Auschwitz SS-defendants in Crakow who was acquitted by Court and set free because of testimonies in his favour by former prisoners. It is little known that after the war he wrote a basic study on "Hunger and Expectation of Life in Auschwitz" for the Polish Public Prosecutor, later published by the Auschwitz International Committee." (Witte)
This shows that Dr. Münch was not a revolted guy but rather an obedient civil servant who dutifully collaborated with Polish authorities when requested to.

The case of the lady who "whitewashed" him again is also interesting. Her name is Eva Moses Kor She is the founder of C.A.N.D.L.E.S., a Holocaust museum. <http> She participated in the Dec. 96 USHMM "Doctor's Trial Conference". Whatever that is.

Here is the report of someone who met her:

"Eva Moses Kor had compelling reasons to do extend the forgiveness. She was trying to get ex-SS men or anybody else with knowledge of what she and other twins were injected with to come forth with the information. Her sister (her twin sister also subjected to Mengele) was at the time suffering with or had died from bladder cancer. The sister's doctor said that tests detected a strange substance present in her body, but the doctor could not identify it. Moses Kor and her sister felt certain that the mystery substance was the cause of the bladder cancer and that the substance entered the sister's body via an SS syringe at Auschwitz." [Miriam Mozes died in 1993, 48 years after she had left the camp.] Another case of extravagant gullibility! How can you believe you get a cancer 48 years after an injection? How mad are these people?
But there is more to it. The story of the twins, whatever its kernel of truth, has developped into a huge myth of incontrolable proportions. This is what the commentator is adding:

"The US government was in possession of much unreleased information seized from the SS, but the IMT prosecutors did not see as necessary for their specifics of 1946. A small group of scholars were also allowed to sort though the materials to find what *they* considered relevant. But of the total material, they considered only a small amount to be *relevant.* (Our emplasis) ... But the twin survivors felt that the probability was high that such information was contained within. They petitioned and petitioned the US government all to no avail. It was only after much petitioning that Eva Moses Kor issued her forgiveness. It was a last ditch effort to try to get somebody with knowledge to come forth. And this signing took place as part of a normal survivors's conference at Auschwitz. So press was already there. And any extra publicity Moses Kor and Muench might have made would have been designed to try to get the word to as many ex-SS and their families as possible so that whomever among them has knowledge of what the twins were exposed to will learn of the amnesty." (Witte)

Now we have the reason of all this fuss. Some old ladie, afraid of dying, imagines that, ages ago, she and her sister have received a mysterious substance from the evil doctors down there in A. This looks like a story for "X-files". The truth is elsewhere. Now they start criticizing the Nuremberg highly selective way of collecting documents (a possibility which was denied to the defense counsels). Now they realize that Nuremberg itself is a heavily biased approach of history, done in the name of immediate political and military needs, including the consolidation of Soviet occupation of half Europe.
Eva Mozes was born in a Rumanian village in 1934. Same region as arch-liar Elie Wiesel. From Auschwitz she returned, with her twin sister, to Rumania, and then to Israel (1950-1960). Joined the army there. Later married and settled in Indiana, USA. See her biography on her website. Another case of delusion. Here is the description of what was done to the twins, culled from her autobiography and reproduced on the Candles Website: "Three times a week we were marched to Auschwitz to a big brick building, sort of like a big gymnasium. They would keep us there for about six or eight hours at a time -- most of the days. [...] We would have to sit naked in the large room where we first entered, and people in white jackets would observe us and write down notes. They also would study every part of our bodies. They would photograph, measure our heads and arms and bodies, and compare the measurements of one twin to another. The process seemed to go on and on." (Echoes from Auschwitz, Kor). The laboratory experiments were described by Kor as follows: "Most of the time, they would take blood from one arm, and they gave us shots in the other." (Echoes from Auschwitz, Kor).

We learn that "Hans Münch, 87, a retired German physician who admits to helping Nazi doctor Joseph Mengele carry out medical experiments on concentration camp inmates is again under investigation." As Le Monde observed, "having been acquitted in Cracow for his part in the medical experiments, he could be sued for his taking part (contested) to the "selections" of Jews, or, simply, for incitement to racial hatred because of his statements in der Spiegel". The German "journalist" has planted in Münch's mouth some expletives about the "Eastern Jews" and their servility. As one H-Holocaust police-minded "historian" said: "A friend of mine in Germany has pointed out that the Frankfurt/Main prosecutor's office "Staatsanwaltschaft Frankfurt/Main, Konrad-Adenauer-Str. 20, D-60313, Frankfurt/Main, Germany" would be happy to receive information which would assist with the current investigation. Cops, cops, all cops... With whom else could we discuss?

Sources:
* Dr. Hans Münch interview in Der Spiegel, 26 September 1998;
* Dirk Münch' letter in Der Spiegel, 10 October 1998;
* Dr. Münch's statement: posted on H-Holocaust by Peter Witte <p> on 22 and 23 Oct. 1998;
* Info on Mrs Kor by Hosea Azriel <ravazriel>, 19 October 1998.
* On the paper flow after the death of inmates in Auschwitz, see Dr. Tadeusz Paczula"s contribution to vol. II (1, p. 38-73) of Anthologie, ed. by Jerzy Rawicz, Przeglad Lekarki Auschwitz (International Committee), 1969. This is known as "The Blue Collection". Dr. Paczula was for a time in charge of Totenbücher, where deaths were registered;
* The stories of Dr. Münch and Eva Kor as told -- in the style of fairy tales -- on the Website CANDLES, (The name is an acronym for Children of Auschwitz Nazi Deadly Lab Experiment Survivors), founded by Eva Mozes Kor, at <http>. She is based in Terre Haute, Indiana. Probably a very boring place. It is a part of the booming US Shoah-business; her biography is in a file called "eva". She sells a biography, Echoes from Auschwitz. She can be reached at <Candles>;
* The Associated Press reports on 14 Oct the investigation of Dr. Münch.
* Dr. Hans Münch, "Glod i czas przezycia w obozie oswiecimskim", (Hunger and Expectation of Life in Auschwitz) in Przeglad Lekarski, 1967, Vol.1, p. 79-88.
* On twins see "twin", a file on Candles website. Kor quotes the following works:
-- Lifton, Robert Jay. The Nazi Doctors. The United States: Basic Books. 1986.
-- Nyiszli., Dr. Miklos. Auschwitz: A Doctor's Story of Survival. New York: Fawcett Crest. 1960. [A well known forgery]
-- Posner, Gerald L. and John Ware. Mengele. The Complete Story. New York: Dell Publishing. 1986.
-- Ramati, Alexander. And the Violins Stopped Playing.
* Arnaud Leparmentier, "Les souvenirs sans remords du dernier médecin nazi d'Auschwitz", Le Monde , 3 October 1998, p. 1.

LE TEMPS IRREPARABLE, Paris. Our communiqués can be seen at <http>
and at <http>
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Hannover
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu May 03, 2007 11:31 am)

This is just another example of Holocaust BS 101.

Given Kors record of lying, why should anyone believe anything she has said? She makes claims which are laughable, presents no evidence, and her stories do not hold up to scrutiny.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby PLAYWRIGHT » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sun May 06, 2007 9:15 pm)

Gertrud wrote:
PLAYWRIGHT wrote:Secondly, at the time, Kor was an ten-year old Hungarian girl raised in Romania. Mengele didn't speak Hungarian (one of the world's most difficult languages), and she didn't speak German. I'm dying to know how she could have understood what he said.

German was widely understood in the northwestern parts of Romania which had belonged to the Austro-Hungarian empire.


Yeah, ok, I did some checking, and there's actually a census on this, dating from just before the First World War. 21% of people in the Romanian-Hungarian border region of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, including Jews, spoke German as a first or second language. Undoubtedly more used it as a lingua franca for trade and social purposes, so it's possible that Kor spoke German, though I'd like to see some solid evidence she did.

Also the evidence for another Kor claim - that her son, born in the 1950's, developed his cancer in his forties (in other words, in the 1990's) as a result of Mengele's injections. A "time-bomb" injection like this, inducing cancer decades later and in multiple generations, would be the Eighth Wonder of the medical world, worthy of a front page on the New England Journal of Medicine. For obvious reasons, we're not soon going to see that.

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Postby Hektor » 1 decade 10 months ago (Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:04 pm)

Breker wrote:We found this bit at:
http://www.vho.org/VffG/1997/3/Kor.html
Kors is looked into, a snipet:
Now we have the reason of all this fuss. Some old ladie, afraid of dying, imagines that, ages ago, she and her sister have received a mysterious substance from the evil doctors down there in A. ....Eva Mozes was born in a Rumanian village in 1934. Same region as arch-liar Elie Wiesel. From Auschwitz she returned, with her twin sister, to Rumania, and then to Israel (1950-1960).

Breker

LE TEMPS IRREPARABLE
Paris, 24 October 1998
[email protected]
Fugit irreparabile tempus

JUST ANOTHER AUSCHWITZ LIAR

Dr. Münch, 87, "gave" a testimony to Bruno Schirra, an "independent" journalist; it was published in Der Spiegel on Sept. 26, 1998. He has been a SS physician in Auschwitz in 1943 and after. The greatest suspicion should be exercised before accepting this statement, mostly because the son of the old man wrote to the weekly to express his amazement. He said the mind of his father has been "weakened" since two years. ....I, Dr. Hans Münch hereby attest that, as an SS physician on duty in Auschwitz in 1944, I witnessed the selection process of those who were to live and those who were to die. ...Assuming the author of the statement to be healthy at the time, we can easily identify a series of lies. We use here the word "lies" on purpose. As it will be shown, it is not possible that certain statements which are contrary to the truth were made by accident.
...
To my knowledge Muench suffered from Alzheimer:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/674049.stm
So perhaps not a liar, just someone talking nonsense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_M%C3%BCnch

When examined Dr. Muench reveals himself rather as an embarrassment for Holocaustianity.

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Postby PotPie » 1 decade 10 months ago (Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:49 pm)

PLAYWRIGHT wrote:The lurid crap about injecting dye into children's eyes in order to change their color, or sewing children together to create Siamese twins needs no comment.


Sure it needs comment: Bwaaahhahahahahahaha!!!

I'm actually thinking about a study on Mengele later on, for a possible revisionist paper. I'm curious as to the extent of sources of his evilness, although I'm sure they're of no better quality than those for mass-gassings.
Mengele was the single most Omnipresent figure of WWII. He was present at all selections at Auschwitz-Birkenau and Dachau while simultaneously conducting countless medical experiments and supervising his staff of physicians. The poor guy must never have gotten any sleep. Himmler was nearly as Omnipresent at this, even showing up at non-functioning alleged gas chambers.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 10 months ago (Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:25 am)

A full review by Thomas Kues of Gerald Posner and John Ware's book Mengele: The Complete Story can be found in Smith's Report #154:

http://www.codoh.com/newsite/sr/online/sr_154.pdf


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