"Survivors" who deny the holocaust.

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Kingfisher
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Re: "Survivors" who deny the holocaust.

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 1 month ago (Sat May 17, 2014 4:32 am)

Norman Finkelstein quotes his mother, who was in Auschwitz, as saying "If so many survived, who did the Germans kill?" (my paraphrase). Of course that can be read two ways.

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Re: "Survivors" who deny the holocaust.

Postby Zulu » 5 years 4 weeks ago (Sat May 17, 2014 2:29 pm)

NZSRP wrote:Thanks guys!

One of my searches on Burg threw up a little gold mine, (http://www.whale.to/b/burg_h.html). The image at the bottom of the page lists another two survivors who knew nothing of gas chambers as well.

Marika Frank Abrams
Dr. Benedikt Kautsky

So now I have four including Burg and Paul Rassinier.

My next task, which I think may prove nigh on impossible, is to try and find non revisionist source quotes for their denials. In my arguments (not angry arguments, but fun debate/discussion arguments) my friend has said that I should not be using revisionist material to quote from because it is biased......to which I respond with, "Then you cant use orthodox source material because it too is biased. Plus the fact that the orthodox does not want to talk about eyewitness deniers because they are not telling the right story."

Here are quotes and related sources for the statements including the one by Marika Frank Abrams you cited.
From the IHR's article Auschwitz: Myths and Facts By Mark Weber
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

Maria Vanherwaarden
An Austrian woman, Maria Vanherwaarden, testified about her camp experiences in a Toronto District Court in March 1988. [16] She was interned in Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1942 for having sexual relations with a Polish forced laborer. On the train journey to the camp, a Gypsy woman told her and the others that they would all be gassed at Auschwitz. Upon arrival, Maria and the other women were ordered to undress and go into a large concrete room without windows to take a shower. The terrified women were sure that they were about to die. But then, instead of gas, water came out of the shower heads.

Auschwitz was no vacation resort, Maria confirmed. She witnessed the deaths of many fellow inmates by disease, particularly typhus. She saw some take their own lives. But she saw no evidence at all of mass killings, gassings, or of any extermination program.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
16. Testimony in Toronto District Court, March 28, 1988. Toronto Star, March 29, 1988, p. A2; B. Kulaszka, ed., Did Six Million Really Die?: Report of the Evidence in the Canadian 'False News' Trial of Ernst Zündel (Toronto : 1992), pp. 253-255.
( http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/21herwaarden.html )


Marika Frank (Abrams)
A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from Hungary in July 1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated daily. She likewise testified after the war that she heard and saw nothing of gas chambers during the time she was interned there. She heard the gassing stories only later.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
17. Sylvia Rothchild, ed., Voices from the Holocaust (New York: 1981), pp. 188-191.

Another interesting case: a denier in spite of himself. That is the case of an eyewitness who gave a testimony under oath
at the Zündel trial (Toronto, 1985)

Arnold Friedman
Witness Arnold Friedman

The prosecution counted on the testimony of "survivors." These "survivors" were chosen with care. They were supposed to testify that they had seen, with their own eyes, preparations for and the carrying out of homicidal gassings. Since the war, in a series of trials like those at Nuremberg (1945-46), Jerusalem (1961), or Frankfurt (1963-65), such witnesses have never been lacking. However, as I have often noted, no lawyer for the defense had ever had the courage or the competence necessary to cross-examine these witnesses on the gassings themselves.

For the first time, in Toronto in 1985, one lawyer, Douglas Christie, dared to ask for explanations. He did it with the help of topographical maps and building plans as well as scholarly documentation on both the properties of the gases supposedly used and also on the capacities for cremation, whether carried out in crematory ovens or on pyres. Not one of these witnesses stood the test, and especially not Arnold Friedman. Despairing of his case, he ended by confessing that he had indeed been at Auschwitz-Birkenau (where he never had to work except once, unloading potatoes), but that, as regards gassings, he had relied on what others had told him.[*]

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p417_Faurisson.html
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
[*] More precision on the trial transcript is given by Robert Faurisson in another article "Les témoins des chambres à gaz d’Auschwitz" (Witnesses to the gas chambers of Auschwitz)
"Les pages 304-371 retracent l'interrogatoire et le contre-interrogatoire d'Arnold Friedman ; ce dernier s'effondre aux pages 445-446 quand il finit par avouer qu'il n'a en fait rien vu, qu'il a parlé par ouï-dire parce que, disait-il, il avait rencontré des personnes convaincantes ; "

"Pages 304-371 trace the examination and cross-examination of Arnold Friedman, the latter collapses on pages 445-446 when he admits he has actually seen anything, he spoken by hearsay because, he said, he met with convincing people;

http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com.es/ ... hwitz.html

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Re: "Survivors" who deny the holocaust.

Postby Zulu » 5 years 4 weeks ago (Sat May 17, 2014 2:52 pm)

Zulu wrote:Another interesting case: a denier in spite of himself. That is the case of an eyewitness who gave a testimony under oath
at the Zündel trial (Toronto, 1985)

Arnold Friedman

Another involuntary denier who never saw gas chambers at Auschwitz.

Elie Wiesel
Elie Wiesel won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986. He is generally accepted as a witness to the Jewish "Holocaust," and, more specifically, as a witness to the legendary Nazi extermination gas chambers. The Paris daily Le Monde emphasized at the time that Wiesel was awarded the Nobel Prize because: [1]
These last years have seen, in the name of so-called "historical revisionism," the elaboration of theses, especially in France, questioning the existence of the Nazi gas chambers and, perhaps beyond that, of the genocide of the Jews itself.

But in what respect is Elie Wiesel a witness to the alleged gas chambers? By what right does he ask us to believe in that means of extermination? In an autobiographical book that supposedly describes his experiences at Auschwitz and Buchenwald, he nowhere mentions the gas chambers. [2] He does indeed say that the Germans executed Jews, but ... by fire; by throwing them alive into flaming ditches, before the very eyes of the deportees! No less than that!
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1. Le Monde, October 17, 1986. Front page.
2. There is one single allusion, extremely vague and fleeting, on pages 78-79: Wiesel, who very much likes to have conversations with God, says to Him: "But these men here, whom You have betrayed, whom You have allowed to be tortured, butchered, gassed, burned, what do they do? They pray before you!" (Night, New York, Discus/Avon Books, 1969, p. 79). In his preface to that same book, François Mauriac mentioned "the gas chamber and the crematory" (p. 8). The four crucial pages of "testimony" by Elie Wiesel are reproduced in facsimile in: Pierre Guillaume, Droit et Histoire (La Vieille Taupe, 1986), pp. 147-150. In the German-language edition of Night (Die Nacht zu begraben, Elischa [Ullstein, 1962]), on 14 occasions the word "crematory" or "crematories" has been falsely given as "Gaskammer" ("gas chamber[s]"). In January of 1945, in anticipation of a Russian takeover, the Germans were evacuating Auschwitz. Elie Wiesel, a young teenager at the time, was hospitalized in Birkenau (the "extermination camp") after surgery on an infected foot. His doctor had recommended two weeks of rest and good food but, before his foot healed, the Russian takeover became imminent. Hospital patients were considered unfit for the long trip to the camps in Germany and Elie thus could have remained at Birkenau to await the Russians. Although his father had permission to stay with him as a hospital patient or orderly, father and son talked it over and decided to move out with the Germans. (See Night, p. 93. See also D. Calder, The Sunday Sun [Toronto, Canada], May 31, 1987, p. C4.)

Source A Prominent False Witness: Elie Wiesel By Robert Faurisson http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/wiesel.shtml

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Re: "Survivors" who deny the holocaust.

Postby NZSRP » 5 years 4 weeks ago (Sun May 18, 2014 7:51 am)

I love you guys. Thanks so much for the plethora of information!

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Re: "Survivors" who deny the holocaust.

Postby Hektor » 5 years 3 weeks ago (Tue May 20, 2014 12:14 pm)

NZSRP wrote:....

I have seen a number of the USC Shoah foundation videos of testimonies of people being transferred through Treblinka, and making theatres and playing football etc, but I haven't found any of these where they directly state that there was no gassings taking place.
...

I don't expect ordinary people who were in camps or deported to outright "deny the Holocaust", but many are reporting not to have seen the pink elephants in the room. That's enough for me. Their numerous existence makes "Holocaust Survivors" performatory Holocaust deniers anyway.

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Re: "Survivors" who deny the holocaust.

Postby NZSRP » 5 years 3 weeks ago (Wed May 21, 2014 8:12 pm)

Hektor wrote:I don't expect ordinary people who were in camps or deported to outright "deny the Holocaust", but many are reporting not to have seen the pink elephants in the room. That's enough for me. Their numerous existence makes "Holocaust Survivors" performatory Holocaust deniers anyway.


I agree, this is one of the reasons I gave to this chap about why there arent many, because most of actually them believe that it happened and that generally the closest we may get is an admission of "I never actually saw anyone gassed"

What I would like to know, is how have they obtained the USC Shoah videos, all I can find on the net is directions to the nearest Shoah place to go and watch them.

Plus, it must have taken hours upon hours to watching that dribble to find the few gems, so "big ups" and thanks to those that have put in that effort.

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Re: "Survivors" who deny the holocaust.

Postby Hektor » 5 years 3 weeks ago (Sat May 24, 2014 3:02 pm)

NZSRP wrote:
Hektor wrote:I don't expect ordinary people who were in camps or deported to outright "deny the Holocaust", but many are reporting not to have seen the pink elephants in the room. That's enough for me. Their numerous existence makes "Holocaust Survivors" performatory Holocaust deniers anyway.


I agree, this is one of the reasons I gave to this chap about why there arent many, because most of actually them believe that it happened and that generally the closest we may get is an admission of "I never actually saw anyone gassed"...

That may have been a common response. But you won't hear that much about it. Good question would be, when the "survivors" became persuaded that the "Holocaust was real".

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Re: "Survivors" who deny the holocaust.

Postby cold beer » 5 years 3 weeks ago (Sat May 24, 2014 5:47 pm)

NZSRP wrote:
Hektor wrote:I don't expect ordinary people who were in camps or deported to outright "deny the Holocaust", but many are reporting not to have seen the pink elephants in the room. That's enough for me. Their numerous existence makes "Holocaust Survivors" performatory Holocaust deniers anyway.


I agree, this is one of the reasons I gave to this chap about why there arent many, because most of actually them believe that it happened and that generally the closest we may get is an admission of "I never actually saw anyone gassed"

What I would like to know, is how have they obtained the USC Shoah videos, all I can find on the net is directions to the nearest Shoah place to go and watch them.

Plus, it must have taken hours upon hours to watching that dribble to find the few gems, so "big ups" and thanks to those that have put in that effort.

They have hundreds of 'shoah' testimonies on youtube, a small fraction of the over 50,000.
Undoubtedly testimonies which are the most incriminating to the storyline won't get uploaded.
Even so there are a surprising number of 'gems', as you say, in the online testimonies.

In a radio interview Eric Hunt said that at the viewing locations you are able to do searches of the testimony content.
Apparently they must have the testimonies in text format.

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Re: "Survivors" who deny the holocaust.

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 3 weeks ago (Sun May 25, 2014 3:15 pm)

cold beer wrote:In a radio interview Eric Hunt said that at the viewing locations you are able to do searches of the testimony content.
Apparently they must have the testimonies in text format.
I doubt if they have the entire testimonies as text. More likely they attach keywords and key phrases to enable searching.

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Re: "Survivors" who deny the holocaust.

Postby Hektor » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:19 pm)

cold beer wrote:http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-archive.blogspot.com/2009/10/professor-michel-de-bouard-former.html

Professor Michel de Bouard, former inmate at Mauthausen, admits Holocaust record is "rotten to the core", rife with "fantasies" and "exaggerations"

Michel de Boüard

In 1986, Michel de Boüard, former inmate at Mauthausen, honorary dean of the Faculty of Letters at the University of Caen, member of the Committee for the History of the Second World War, member of the Institut de France, said:

In the monograph on Mauthausen that I published in Revue d’Histoire de la [Deuxième] Guerre mondiale in 1954, I mentioned a gas chamber on two occasions. When the time of reflection had arrived, I said to myself: where did you arrive at the conviction that there was a gas chamber in Mauthausen? This cannot have been during my stay in this camp, for neither myself nor anybody else ever suspected that there was one there. This must therefore be a piece of ‘baggage’ that I picked up after the war; this was [an] admitted [fact] but I noticed that in my text - although I have the habit of supporting most of my affirmations by references-there was none referring to the gas chamber . . . (Ouest-France, August 2-3, 1986, p. 6).
...

Contrast this with this: http://www.reddit.com/r/history/comment ... tion_camp/
A few months ago, I went on a trip to visit my 93 year old grandfather for the 70th anniversary of him being liberated from his concentration camp in Mauthausen, Austria. He took us on a tour of the camp and told stories of what went on and asked that I share his story to pass on to friends and colleagues and future generations in the hope that we don't make the same mistakes again. So, if you have some time, please give this a read as it is a very big part of my life and I certainly wouldn't be here today if he hadn't survived. Its probably better to download it than view it through Google viewer or whatever because it messes up the formatting, but if there are any problems let me know. Feel free to ask me any questions. Thank you all.

Here is the link to my google doc: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/ ... sp=sharing


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