Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
Dutch beginner
Member
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:34 pm

Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby Dutch beginner » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:02 pm)

As promised, here http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1075&p=66599#p66599 I start a thread about the question of the Jews, missed after the war and the question, what happened with them. English is not my native language, but I shall try to do my best.


During WW ll, 250.000 Dutch people died, as a cause of the war. Among them 102.000 Jews.
I think this figure is very reliaby:
http://www.dutchjewry.org/inmemoriam/in_memoriam.htm

Also, Dutch revisionists thinks that this is a reliable figure.


However, if you only look to the Jews, who dit not return from the camps, the number is about 99.900. I think that the number of 100.000 is a good indication of the total number of Jews died and/or killed in the camps.

The German threated the Jews inhuman.

The Dutch Jews were not allowed:
- To enter film theathre
- Te enter bars
- To go to swimming pools
- To walk in parks
- To go to the beatch
Etc. etc.

From 22 februrai 1941, the razzia on jews started.
On 25 februari 1941, the februari strike in Amsterdam was organized against these razzia's, off cource with no result.

Jews were deported to Westerbork, that was a camp with good food and there was even music and entertainment. From there, most of them were deported to Auschwitz and Sobibor.

On 15 july 1942, first group of Jews were deported to Ausschwitz.
I did a research, most of the pages (wiki, government, victim organisations) claimed that the most of the missed Jews were gassed.

Besides concentration camps for Jews, there where also some concentration camps for Dutch people (e.g. my grandfather died here:
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamp_Rees )
This was a small group. It is well known that from the labour camps of the men from village Putten, only 7,5% came back after the war.

So in my opinnion, it is possible that the most of the not returned Jews died because of bad nutricien and sickness, because the same happened in some 'normal' concentration camps.

These were the camps for Jews:
Auschwitz 60.080
Sobibor 34.313
Theresiënstadt 4.900
Other camps: Mauthausen, Bergen-Belsen

Some revisionists claimed that a large group of the Jews were deported to Russia, via transit camps like Sobibor, and Auschwits. There is also some proof for this claim. E.g., via orders and via testimony's, (Edward Crankshaw, biograph of Chroestsjov, who wrote that Stalin deported Jews to Siberia) They argue that Stalin is responsible for their dead. However, I did not find any proof for the claim that millions were killed in Russia. If that is true, more eywitnesses should be available, I think

Some revisionist think that Sobibor and other endlosung camps (but not Auschwits and Madjanek) where at the end murder camps, also Treblinca, Belzec, Chelmno), when the conditions of the prisoners went to bad and the germans were not able anymore to keep them alive, they started a massive killing.

When I believed the holocaust, as told by the MSM and on schools, I was very impressed of this documentary
http://brandpunt.incontxt.nl/seizoenen/2012/afleveringen/09-12-2012/fragmenten/het-gestolen-leven-van-lea/

about the finding of a name plate: Lea Judith de la Penha in a path in the Sobibor wood. Lea was not returned, same for her whole family! On that place, a lot of suitcase keys were found, that could proof that the Jews were taken to a shower place but did not return. What you do with keys with no use, you throw them away. It is not a hard proof, I agree.

My opinion now is that there was no plan to exterminate the Jews, and there are no evidence of gass chambers in Auschwitz. However, there are also a lot of empty trains, returning.

The revisionists, they do not have an answer too, about the disappearence of all the Jews.

I think it is important that the history about the truth, what happened, must be told. Therefore, I think it is good that the myths disappear, and the real killings, and who is responsible, must be revealed. Because lies will led to new wars. Let we hope that are some archives in Russia for instance with some useful information.

Atigun
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 493
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:13 am

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby Atigun » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:31 pm)

There were no gas chambers. The mass graves at Treblinka as described by the eyewitness, Yankel Wiernik, don't exist. It was impossible for them to be excavated as he described. There is no proof that the Germans executed anyone by means of poison gas. Why do you believe that revisionists must explain where the Jews went during WWII?

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9973
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby Hannover » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:17 pm)

Dutch beginner:

Why do you cite Wikipedia as a reliable source for anything that involves Jews?
See:
Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course
and:
racist 'Jewish Internet Defense Force' manipulates

In the earlier post that you cited you said:
After the war, the most important leaders of the NSB, together with war crimminals, were executed. 154 get the death penalty, however, only 39 were really executed, Anton Mussert was among them. The first one who was executed was Max Blokzijl, he only made propaganda for the Nazis, but that was enough to execute him according to the Judge.

The Jews in the Netherlands, who did not survive the war (102.000), they are registered with name and date of birth in the Oorlogsgravenstichting (foundation for War graves) in the Hague.
These questions also apply to your OP in this thread as well.
- Where are the verbatim court records for us to review concerning these NSB leaders and "war criminals"?
- What were the specific charges against each of them?
- What are the claimed causes of death for these alleged 102,000 Jews in the Netherlands?
- If they're claimed to have been murdered then please show us the proof.
- Were all of these alleged 102,000 Jews Dutch citizens?
- Please name the Dutch Revisionists that think 102,000 is a reliable figure? What proof do they cite for their 'reliable figure'?

you said:
The German threated the Jews inhuman.

The Dutch Jews were not allowed:
- To enter film theathre
- Te enter bars
- To go to swimming pools
- To walk in parks
- To go to the beatch
Perhaps, but please show us the laws which applied, or did you just read this at Wikipedia?
- And are you talking about treatment of Jews in Germany or Holland?
- Ultimately you are talking about much of the world's treatment of numerous peoples at the time.
- Think about the world's treatment of Africans at the time.
- Think about the world's treatment of Muslims today.
- Much like the British treatment of their subjects in India & elsewhere at the time.
- Much like the French treatment of their subjects in Indochina & elsewhere at the time.
- Much like The US treatment of Japanese-Americans at the time.
- Even today in Japan you will see "Japanese only" at bars, restaurants, etc.
- Much like it is today in Israel when it comes to Palestinians & Arabs. On & on it goes.
- And most importantly your points have nothing to do with the alleged 'murdering of Jews'
It is well known that from the labour camps of the men from village Putten, only 7,5% came back after the war.
Please give us the proof for this statement.
However, there are also a lot of empty trains, returning.
The revisionists, they do not have an answer too, about the disappearence of all the Jews.

- Give us proof that these Jews 'disappeared'.
- Which trains returned empty? Please give your source.
- Why are the outbound / return train records missing while the inbound train records are not?
- Please show us the mass graves for these Dutch Jews.
- Please show us the order/s for them to be killed.

DB, it appears you have read little Revisionist literature, or the extensive threads at this forum. Nonetheless, the debate will proceed.

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship.
Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The Internet has demolished the lies. The tide is turning.


- Hannover
Last edited by Hannover on Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Atigun
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 493
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:13 am

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby Atigun » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:33 pm)

Dutch beginner,

Don't let Hannover intimidate you too much right at the start. He's been at this a long time and can be a little overwhelming at times. You have been under indoctrination for a long time and only now are beginning to see how the hoax is maintained. You can't take it all at one bite. It will take you a while to realize just how monstrous the holocaust (holyhoax) lie truly is. I seem to recall that some old famous guy said that the learning process is unpleasant.

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3423
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby Hektor » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:35 pm)

Dutch beginner wrote:As promised, here http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1075&p=66599#p66599 I start a thread about the question of the Jews, missed after the war and the question, what happened with them. English is not my native language, but I shall try to do my best.


During WW ll, 250.000 Dutch people died, as a cause of the war. Among them 102.000 Jews.
I think this figure is very reliaby:
http://www.dutchjewry.org/inmemoriam/in_memoriam.htm

Also, Dutch revisionists thinks that this is a reliable figure.
....
Wikipedia lists a figure slightly above 200.000 for the Netherlands war dead. They actually put up a number right to the last full digit to insinuate accuracy. I seriously doubt that number for several reasons:
* The accuracy is a good hint, nobody really knows how many died and for sure they can't put up such accurate numbers.
* There is no distinction between dead and missing (Just as with the Jewish figures btw). I only recall Germany giving distinctive numbers for dead and missing. Other countries armies also list tabs for dead and missing separately. The German figures for missing were two million still in the 1990s. Those people were seriously searched for, so one can presume that most of them died in the war or shortly after 1945. You can't do that, if people haven't been searched for.
* The Jewish figure is widely based on deportation minus reported returnees. Now that's patently dishonest. They could be called missing at best. But note that the Germany missing figure is based on people filing requests. Who did file reports for missing Jews? Now if figures are already accepted with this lack of scrutiny, why believe the rest?

So I do not by the 200.000 plus figure, but I still would set the war dead for the Netherlands at a six digit figure.

Dutch beginner
Member
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:34 pm

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby Dutch beginner » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:38 pm)

@Hannover
A lot of questions to answer at this late time (in the Netherlands :? ). I only gave an overview regarding the opinions in my posting. I did not tell what I believe is the truth. The opinion, the Jews were transported to Russia, and died there, is an interesting point of view. There are indeed Jews deported to Russia, but there is no proof that they were killed by Stalin (what does not mean that it is not true).

Many information I found here: http://stopzionism.com/holocaust-leugens.html, and I also read a lot and saw some documentary's of revisionists. I do not choose for an opinion, I just gave an overview about the opinions.

Strong evidence that Treblinca was not a murder camp, is that holocaust believers, with the modernst equipment, were not able to proof that the Germans dig big mass graves. With modern equipment, you must find some tracks, but those were not found.

Otherwise, whole families disappeared. The Russians reveal the death books of Auschwitz. Can we find them there? And if not, what happened?

The rest of your question, I wil answer them tomorrow.

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3423
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby Hektor » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:49 pm)

Atigun wrote:Dutch beginner,

Don't let Hannover intimidate you too much right at the start. He's been at this a long time and can be a little overwhelming at times. You have been under indoctrination for a long time and only now are beginning to see how the hoax is maintained. You can't take it all at one bite. It will take you a while to realize just how monstrous the holocaust (holyhoax) lie truly is. I seem to recall that some old famous guy said that the learning process is unpleasant.
Most of us here have been. Many most of their lifes. And we don't blame the believers. Many arguments or "evidences" are pretty convincing to the laymen.

Dutch beginner wrote:@Hannover
A lot of questions to answer at this late time (in the Netherlands :? ). I only gave an overview regarding the opinions in my posting. I did not tell what I believe is the truth. The opinion, the Jews were transported to Russia, and died there, is an interesting point of view. There are indeed Jews deported to Russia, but there is no proof that they were killed by Stalin (what does not mean that it is not true).
I don't think the suggestion is that the Jews were deported East of Poland and then killed there by Stalin or whomever. They may have died there of natural causes long after the war. Bear in mind that the Soviet Union isolated itself under Communism. You could not simply go and leave from there. There were Russian witnesses at Western trials related to Holocaust claims. But those were more or less well coached witnesses and they had to return after the trial after getting their hands on some Western currency.

Joseph Buehler did state in Nuremberg that the Jews were to be settled somewhere in the North East of Europe. can get you the exact quote, if you want.


Dutch beginner wrote:Many information I found here: http://stopzionism.com/holocaust-leugens.html, and I also read a lot and saw some documentary's of revisionists. I do not choose for an opinion, I just gave an overview about the opinions.
Strong evidence that Treblinca was not a murder camp, is that holocaust believers, with the modernst equipment, were not able to proof that the Germans dig big mass graves. With modern equipment, you must find some tracks, but those were not found.
Otherwise, whole families disappeared. The Russians reveal the death books of Auschwitz. Can we find them there? And if not, what happened?
...

If families were deported, its plausible they stayed together after the deportation or war. In Auschwitz there were "Durchgangsjuden" as well. They were usually not registered there, but sent somewhere else.

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby hermod » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:02 pm)

Dutch beginner wrote:Besides concentration camps for Jews, there where also some concentration camps for Dutch people (e.g. my grandfather died here:
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamp_Rees )
This was a small group. It is well known that from the labour camps of the men from village Putten, only 7,5% came back after the war.

So in my opinnion, it is possible that the most of the not returned Jews died because of bad nutricien and sickness, because the same happened in some 'normal' concentration camps.


The Putten case shows that homicidal gas chambers were not needed to explain a high death rate during the most titanic war the word has ever seen.

(For those who don't know the Putten reprisal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putten_raid)

Sure a number of Jews died of diseases and other hardships of war during WW2. But the men of Putten were deported when Germany was collapsing and the living conditions in German concentration camps were getting worse. So it was not surprising that a large number of them died in labor camps. The living conditions in German concentration calmps during the last months of WW2 were not illustrative of the living conditions prevailing in those camps under normal circumstances. And I maintain that a percentage of the "Dutch" Jews who didn't return to the Netherlands after WW2 didn't die and simply emigrated to other places when various borders opened for them.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9973
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby Hannover » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:14 pm)

Dutch beginner wrote:@Hannover
A lot of questions to answer at this late time (in the Netherlands :? ). I only gave an overview regarding the opinions in my posting. I did not tell what I believe is the truth. The opinion, the Jews were transported to Russia, and died there, is an interesting point of view. There are indeed Jews deported to Russia, but there is no proof that they were killed by Stalin (what does not mean that it is not true).

Many information I found here: http://stopzionism.com/holocaust-leugens.html, and I also read a lot and saw some documentary's of revisionists. I do not choose for an opinion, I just gave an overview about the opinions.

Strong evidence that Treblinca was not a murder camp, is that holocaust believers, with the modernst equipment, were not able to proof that the Germans dig big mass graves. With modern equipment, you must find some tracks, but those were not found.

Otherwise, whole families disappeared. The Russians reveal the death books of Auschwitz. Can we find them there? And if not, what happened?

The rest of your question, I wil answer them tomorrow.
- Who said Stalin killed those Jews?
- What proof does anyone have that the Jews sent to Russia were murdered by the Germans?
- How does anyone know that they didn't go to Palestine, North America, South America, Australia, New Zealand; IOW, any place where Jews are.
- What "whole families disappeared"? Be specific. How do you know they didn't' go to Israel or other places where Jews went? You don't know, and that's the point.

Think of what would be acceptable in a legit court of law. Someone making claims and accusations will laughed out of court unless they can back up their claims & accusations. Especially when someone says that a 102,000 people were killed. Proof required my friend. The onus is upon the accuser to provide proof. That's the way real law works.

Those at this forum are not really interested in your generalities, we've heard them all. In fact that is why we are here. The generalities are do not stand up to scrutiny. Experienced Revisionists at this forum know all the details of the false allegations.
Don't let Hannover intimidate you too much right at the start. He's been at this a long time and can be a little overwhelming at times.
Sorry, I just like getting to the point. That way our readers are not misled by vague and easily refuted accusations. Besides, innocent people have and are suffering because of this Jewish supremacist nonsense. Give me a hug, Dutch beginner.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby hermod » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:43 pm)

Food for thought...

The Importance of Anne Frank

By Richard A. Widmann and David Merlin

Image
Revisionists should embrace the teaching of The Diary of Anne Frank

The story of Anne Frank and her family is well-known through the diary bearing her name. This tragic tale is frequently used to counter Holocaust revisionists. The details of the story are often forgotten or replaced with assumptions regarding the fates of Anne Frank and her family. The facts of the story actually support the revisionist view of the Holocaust. The teaching of The Diary of Anne Frank should be embraced by Holocaust revisionists and all who care about learning the truth of what really happened to Europe’s Jews during the Second World War. The popular media version of the Holocaust would have us think that almost all would be gassed upon arrival at the “death camps” and especially Auschwitz. While perhaps a few very strong Jews might be utilized for manual labor, all children, the elderly, the sick would surely be murdered as part of a program of extermination.

However tragic the story of Anne Frank and her family is, its narrative states that Anne Frank was not gassed at Auschwitz. In fact, after being transported to Auschwitz, she was later transported back west to Bergen-Belsen where she succumbed to disease —typhus, the very disease that Zyklon-B (the alleged killing agent) was used in the camps to combat. The story of Anne Frank is a typical example of the fate of many Jews during this time.

What follows is an unpublished letter from David Merlin of the Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust. Merlin submitted this letter to the New York Times in November 2013. The New York Times did not think it was fit to print. As Merlin suggests, understanding the details of the fate of Anne Frank and her family would help to reveal the truth of the policies of the German government during the Second World War. Merlin writes, “details allow us to learn what really happened.” Those details may be inconvenient to some, but due attention to them can greatly aid in dispelling the shroud of calumny and victimhood that today distorts our understanding.


Edward Rothstein
c/o New York Times
New York City

07 November 2013

I am writing to comment on your article, “Playing Cat and Mouse With Searing History,” addressing the new Anne Frank exhibit at the Los Angeles Museum of Tolerance. http://tinyurl.com/kauo33a

While Anne Frank’s story is tragic, you ignore the manner of death of the 8 people in the Annex. The official history is that non-working Jewish people arriving at Auschwitz were all “gassed.” But of the eight sent to Auschwitz on September 3, 1944 from the Annex, not one of them was killed in a gas chamber. Instead, five of the eight were transported back to Germany-Austria in November 1944.

The details of the eight individuals from the Annex are:

The Frank Family was detained for failing to report for labor service and for going into hiding.

1. Anne Frank– sent to Auschwitz, then transported to Belsen where she died of typhus (in Belsen not Auschwitz).

2. Otto Frank– left behind in Auschwitz with those in the sick barracks. Survived the War.

3. Edith Frank-Holländer–left behind in Auschwitz as the Germans retreated.

4. Margot Frank (Anne’s older sister) died of typhus in Belsen (not Auschwitz).

5. Fritz Pfeffer, sent to Auschwitz then transported to Neuengamme concentration camp where he died on 20 December 1944. His cause of death is listed in the camp records as “enterocolitis.”

6. Auguste van Pels born Auguste Röttgen (Hermann’s wife), whose date of death is unknown. Witnesses testified that she was with the Frank sisters during part of their time in Bergen-Belsen. According to German records, van Pels was sent to Bergen-Belsen concentration camp in Germany with a group of eight women on November 26, 1944. Hannah Goslar’s testimony was that she spoke to van Pels through the barbed wire fence “in late January or early February”. Auguste was transferred on February 6, 1945 to Raguhn (Buchenwald in Germany), then to the Czechoslovakia camp Theresienstadt ghetto on April 9, 1945.

7. Peter van Pels died in Mauthausen (not Auschwitz).

8. Hermann van Pels died in Auschwitz. It is often claimed that he was “gassed.” However, according to eyewitness testimony, this did not happen on the day of his arrival there. Sal de Liema, an inmate at Auschwitz who knew both Otto Frank and Hermann van Pels, said that after two or three days in the camp, van Pels mentally “gave up.” He later injured his thumb on a work detail, and requested to be sent to the sick barracks. There is no evidence whatever for the assertion that Hermann van Pels was gassed.

The pattern is the same with other groups closely associated with Anne Frank who were also sent to Auschwitz from Holland.

9. Eva Geiringer — born May 11, 1929. Sent to Auschwitz May 1944 Step-sister of Anne Frank. Survived the War.

10. “Fritzy” Geiringer, mother of Eva, Married Otto Frank. Survived the War.

11. Heinz Geiringer, brother. Survived Auschwitz but died on a forced march out of the camp.

12. “Pappy” Geiringer. Survived Auschwitz but died on a forced march out of the camp.

The Geiringers were immigrants from Austria; They too ignored a call up for labor service received July 6, 1942 and went into hiding. They were found out on May 11, 1944, detained and were sent to Auschwitz that month.

13. Janny Brandes-Brilleslijper. Was arrested for forgery. Was in the Westerbork, Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen concentration camps. Traveled to Auschwitz on the same train as the Frank family and to Belsen with Anne and Anne’s older sister Margot. Survived the War.

14. Lientje, sister of Janny. Was in the Westerbork, Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen concentration camps with Janny. Survived the War.


Elsewhere you have praised the “relentless pursuit of historical details.” You are right. Details allow us to learn what really happened. In this case the details tell us that none of the people traveling with Anne Frank died in “gas chambers.” Why? And why did the Germans transport Anne, her sister, Janny, Lientje and so many others back into Germany in 1944? These are details which should profoundly affect our, and your, understanding of German policies.

Yours for history based on honesty and historical detail,

David Merlin

Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust

PO Box 439016

San Ysidro, California

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/redire ... e-frank%2F
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby hermod » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:37 pm)

Dutch beginner wrote:When I believed the holocaust, as told by the MSM and on schools, I was very impressed of this documentary
http://brandpunt.incontxt.nl/seizoenen/2012/afleveringen/09-12-2012/fragmenten/het-gestolen-leven-van-lea/

about the finding of a name plate: Lea Judith de la Penha in a path in the Sobibor wood. Lea was not returned, same for her whole family! On that place, a lot of suitcase keys were found, that could proof that the Jews were taken to a shower place but did not return. What you do with keys with no use, you throw them away. It is not a hard proof, I agree.


As Aktion Reinhardt was an economic expelling-spoliation operation (Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt, the 3rd Reich’s Secretary of State for Finances, not after Reinhard Heydrich as repeated on and on by Jewish media and storytellers...erhm...historians), with the belongings of the deported Jews taken from them and sent to the Germans who had lost everything under Allied bombs, there's nothing suspicious in finding suitcases keys near Sobibor. Airports are full of lost suitcases, but nobody concludes that their owners are dead...

http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.be/2009 ... -1986.html



My opinion now is that there was no plan to exterminate the Jews, and there are no evidence of gass chambers in Auschwitz. However, there are also a lot of empty trains, returning.


What would have been the purpose of trains returning full? A little journey in the Polish countryside?

If you decided to deport, let's say, the Arabs out of the Netherlands, I'm pretty sure there would be many planes returning empty from Arab countries.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

Dutch beginner
Member
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:34 pm

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby Dutch beginner » 5 years 6 months ago (Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:13 pm)

@Hanover
Hi, I shall answer a few of your questions. Tomorrow may be more

It is well known that from the labour camps of the men from village Putten, only 7,5% came back after the war.
Please give us the proof for this statement.


It is very good documented that only 7.5% of the Putten men returned at home, the rest died. In a previous reply, the link was already provided.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putten_raid

On the night of 30 September-1 October 1944, a car carrying two officers and two corporals of the German Army was ambushed by members of the Dutch resistance near a bridge, Oldenallerbrug, between the Putten and Nijkerk. Participating in the action was a sergeant from the British Parachute Regiment, Tex Banwell, who had been captured at Arnhem and escaped, but remained behind enemy lines to assist the Dutch resistance with handling their new British weapons. In the fighting, one of the resistance fighters, Frans Slotboom, was wounded and later died. One German officer, Lt Otto Sommer, was also wounded, but escaped to a nearby farmhouse to raise the alarm; Sommer died the following day. The two German corporals fled, and the second officer, Oblt Eggart, was injured and captured. He was also wounded and was abandoned by the resistance fighters in a place where he could be found by the Germans.


The German reprisal raid was conducted the following day. At the command of General Friedrich Christiansen, Putten was surrounded by German forces led by Fritz Fullriede. The women and men of the village were captured and separated, and over one hundred houses in the village were set on fire. Six men and a woman were shot dead during the raid.
The women were held at the church until 9pm, while the men and boys were detained separately nearby at the village school. On 2 October, 661 men between the ages of 18 and 50 were taken to Amersfoort concentration camp, where 59 older or unfit men were released. The remaining 602 men left Amersfoort on 11 October and taken to Neuengamme concentration camp as forced labour. During the transportation, 13 men escaped by jumping from the train. From Neuengamme, some were moved on to other camps or sub-camps, including Ladelund, Bergen-Belsen, Meppen-Versen, Beendorf, Wöbbelin and Malchow. Only 48 men returned after the end of the war, but another 5 died from their mistreatment after they arrived home. A total of 552 men died, mostly victims of malnutrition, slave labour and infectious diseases.


About your other question:

However, there are also a lot of empty trains, returning.
The revisionists, they do not have an answer too, about the disappearence of all the Jews.

- Give us proof that these Jews 'disappeared'.
- Which trains returned empty? Please give your source.
- Why are the outbound / return train records missing while the inbound train records are not?
- Please show us the mass graves for these Dutch Jews.
- Please show us the order/s for them to be killed.


There is only little proof. Why did the germans a thoroughly cleaning action, if they have nothing to hide. regarding the camps in the east of Poland?

Regarding the camps in the very east (Sobibor, Treblinca, Belzec, Chelmno) the germans had big problems to keep the people there in live. In a memo to Adolf Eichmann Hopner floated this idea in 1943:
A danger persists this winter that not all of the Jews (of the Warthegau distrinct in Poland) can be fed. It should be seriously concider if the most human solution is not to finish off those Jews, incapable of work by some quick working means. In any case, this would be more pleasant then letting them starve to death

This memo was published in David Cole's Republican Party Anymal. Somewhere in the book, he admits that camps like Treblinca had pass through stations, but also a lot of empty trains returned.

However, hard proof that the Jews were killed there, he did not offer. Neither he gave an explanation about the empty trains.

In my opinion, it is possible that 94% of the Jews dit not return because they die of natural causes. But if the death books of Auschwitz, hand over in 1989 to Auschwits museum, are revealed, why not perform an investigation, if we can find the missed Jews?

I know that people claim that a lot of Jews were transported to Russia. But if they were alive, why do they not come out during glasnost period?

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9973
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby Hannover » 5 years 6 months ago (Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:29 pm)

- The "Dutch resistance" was an illegal, non-uniformed group, today they are called terrorists. Under international law, when caught, execution of these terrorists was completely legal.

Someone writing whatever they want at Wikipedia is not necessarily fact. Provide proof for:
The German reprisal raid was conducted the following day. At the command of General Friedrich Christiansen, Putten was surrounded by German forces led by Fritz Fullriede. The women and men of the village were captured and separated, and over one hundred houses in the village were set on fire. Six men and a woman were shot dead during the raid.
The women were held at the church until 9pm, while the men and boys were detained separately nearby at the village school. On 2 October, 661 men between the ages of 18 and 50 were taken to Amersfoort concentration camp, where 59 older or unfit men were released. The remaining 602 men left Amersfoort on 11 October and taken to Neuengamme concentration camp as forced labour. During the transportation, 13 men escaped by jumping from the train. From Neuengamme, some were moved on to other camps or sub-camps, including Ladelund, Bergen-Belsen, Meppen-Versen, Beendorf, Wöbbelin and Malchow. Only 48 men returned after the end of the war, but another 5 died from their mistreatment after they arrived home. A total of 552 men died, mostly victims of malnutrition, slave labour and infectious diseases.
- As stated previously, Wikipedia is extremely unreliable, again: Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course and racist 'Jewish Internet Defense Force' manipulates

Again, tell us which trains returned empty, if you think that is suspicious. And as stated, wouldn't empty returning trains make sense since Jews were transited out and unloaded?

The accusers are bound by rule of jurisprudence to present evidence for their case, not the other way around. Quit dodging.
About your other question:

I ask you again:
- Why are the outbound / return train records missing while the inbound train records are not?
- Please show us the mass graves for these Dutch Jews.
- Please show us the order/s for them to be killed.
Why did the germans a thoroughly cleaning action, if they have nothing to hide.
If you are speaking about the unsupportable claim that the Germans tried to hide all the alleged human remains, then you have no proof that they did nor does anyone else. Please provide your proof, not just words. No dodging here.
Regarding the camps in the very east (Sobibor, Treblinca, Belzec, Chelmno) the germans had big problems to keep the people there in live. In a memo to Adolf Eichmann Hopner floated this idea in 1943:
A danger persists this winter that not all of the Jews (of the Warthegau distrinct in Poland) can be fed. It should be seriously concider if the most human solution is not to finish off those Jews, incapable of work by some quick working means. In any case, this would be more pleasant then letting them starve to death.
This memo was published in David Cole's Republican Party Animal.
Where is the original German "memo" which backs this text up? And no, David Cole is not proof. Citing David Cole is frankly humorous. See him demolished here: David Cole on Treblinka

The Jews were not "missing" (aka: 'mass murdered') and you nor anyone else has proven they were. It's as simple as that really.

Here are more questions you dodged after you raised each issue:
- Where are the verbatim court records for us to review concerning these NSB leaders and "war criminals"?
- What were the specific charges against each of them?
- What are the claimed causes of death for these alleged 102,000 Jews in the Netherlands?
- If they're claimed to have been murdered then please show us the proof.
- Were all of these alleged 102,000 Jews Dutch citizens?
- Please name the Dutch Revisionists that think 102,000 is a reliable figure? What proof do they cite for their 'reliable figure'?
- Who said Stalin killed those Jews?
- What proof does anyone have that the Jews sent to Russia were murdered by the Germans?
- How does anyone know that they didn't go to Palestine, North America, South America, Australia, New Zealand; IOW, any place where Jews are.
- What "whole families disappeared"? Be specific. How do you know they didn't' go to Israel or other places where Jews went? You don't know, and that's the point.
I know that people claim that a lot of Jews were transported to Russia. But if they were alive, why do they not come out during glasnost period?
Why would they have 'came out' during that period?

question:
What was the population of Palestine during the war? What is 'Israel's' population today? Where did they come from?

Dutch beginner, no offense, but you do not appear to be a Revisionist or have Revisionist leanings, but maybe I'm wrong. I believe you are in over your head here. We see that a lot. Some guy reads very dubious sources and then thinks he has the answers. He is challenged and resorts just making statements which do not stand up to rational inquiry.

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship.
Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The Internet has demolished the lies. The tide is turning.


- Hannover

(edited for typo)
Last edited by Hannover on Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby hermod » 5 years 6 months ago (Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:36 pm)

Dutch beginner wrote:Why did the germans a thoroughly cleaning action, if they have nothing to hide. regarding the camps in the east of Poland?


There was a war on. Remember? Already heard of something called scortched earth Policy? The Germans destroyed anything that could be used by the Soviets while they were retreating. Nothing unusual in that. No reason to be suspicious about such things in times of war.

Leaving delousing stations close to crucial railway junctions behind them when the Soviet troops were coming wouldn't have been a good idea at all.

The Germans have also dismantled the penal-labor camp at Treblinka 1, but nobody claims there were extermination facilities there and the Germans had something to hide at that place in spite of that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_2yoCvuIio

Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec were in most Allied & Soviet newspapers during WW2. The Nazis knew it. Do you really think that they believed they could hide millions of murders by dismantling a few buildings and dumping ashes and bones in pits (not even in pits far way, but in the mass graves of their own alleged "extermination camps")? :shock:


Dutch beginner wrote:the germans had big problems to keep the people there in live. In a memo to Adolf Eichmann Hopner floated this idea in 1943:
A danger persists this winter that not all of the Jews (of the Warthegau distrinct in Poland) can be fed. It should be seriously concider if the most human solution is not to finish off those Jews, incapable of work by some quick working means. In any case, this would be more pleasant then letting them starve to death


In 1961, Eichmann denied he ever received this memo.

The next document is exhibit T/219, document No. 1410. This is a communication from the Wartheland District, sent by a Sturmbannfuehrer - whose name, according to the reference, must be Hoeppner - to Eichmann. The stamped date of dispatch is not clear. There is a stamp at the top of the communication, 16 July 1941, and another communication, dated the same day, 16 July 1941, Posen, is attached. It is difficult to understand how a communication dated 16 July 1941, can already have an incoming stamp for the same day in Berlin.

This incoming stamp is not entirely legible, but next to it are the initials "UWZ" - Umwandererzentrale (migration centre). In the bottom left-hand corner, it says "Zu den Akten" (for filing). That is how I read this note. In other words, no action was taken. The contents of the communication are particularly significant. I would first refer you to paragraph 1. This states that, as far as the Final Solution of the Jewish Question is concerned, in discussions in the Reichsstatthalterei (Reich Commissioner's Office) - probably meaning Bohemia and Moravia - various references were made to solving the Jewish Question in the Warthe District of the Reich - therefore it was not Bohemia and Moravia, but the Warthe District. Then a proposal is made as to how to solve the problem.

I now turn to paragraphs 4 and 5, five, which are of interest here.

Paragraph 4: "There is a danger this winter that it will not be possible to feed all the Jews. It should be seriously considered whether the most humane solution would not be to do away with the Jews, unless they are capable of working, by means of some quick method. In any case, this would be more convenient than letting them starve to death." The proposal is also made that, in this camp, all the Jewesses who might bear children should be sterilized, in order to provide a total solution to the Jewish Question in this generation.

Witness, did you receive this communication? What steps were taken as a result?

Accused: Had I received the communication and actually held it in my hands, I am quite sure that, despite the twenty years which have intervened, I would have remembered it, because of its drastic contents. I can, therefore, state quite truthfully that I did not receive this communication. I should like, in addition to the explanations given so far, to try and ascertain whether this communication was dispatched at all. In the covering letter it says, "I would welcome your reaction." On the left it says, "z.d.A." - zu den Akten (for filing).

[...] I may observe that, if this were the original of the document or the file minute, then it would be signed; if it were the duplicate, it would be initialled - and neither is true here, neither the first nor the last page is signed. That is all I wish to say.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eic ... 78-01.html
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9973
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Missed Jews from the Netherlands after world war ll

Postby Hannover » 5 years 6 months ago (Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:47 pm)

Dutch beginner said:
Why did the germans a thoroughly cleaning action, if they have nothing to hide.
And noting that he puts faith in David Cole I quote this from David Cole on Treblinka :
Hannover wrote:Cole said:
The Nazis had over a year to eradicate the traces of Treblinka. And the Soviets and Poles have done God-knows-what to that area since 1945. So the physical landscape as it exists now is worthless. And the survivors testimonies are worthless, too, as they proved in the ‘80s by either purposely or “by fuzzy memory” nearly sending a man to his death for being an “Ivan the Terrible” that he never was (Demjanjuk).
But in his 'Forty-Six Important Unanswered Questions Regarding the Nazi Gas Chambers', here: http://codoh.com/library/document/987
Cole says:
(36) As the Nazis were preparing to abandon the Majdanek camp, they destroyed the crematorium building. Why were the gas chambers not similarly destroyed? Why would the Nazis leave their weapons of mass murder intact for the world to see? How hard would it have been for the Nazis to destroy the gas chambers, just like they did the crematorium building? At least, shouldn't the Nazis have filled in the Zyklon B induction holes, which serve as direct proofs of homicidal gassings? Either way, the destruction of the crematorium is clear proof that the Nazis had both the time and the ability to demolish buildings in the camp if they wanted to. Why were the gas chambers not demolished?

This is good. "The Nazis had over a year to eradicate the traces of Treblinka", but somehow left entire alleged 'gas chambers' intact at Majdanek even though they had plenty of time eliminate them. Cole, hoisted by his own petard.
There were no indications of mass extermination in which to "eradicate".
The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship.
Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The Internet has demolished the lies. The tide is turning.


- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSN [Bot] and 11 guests