Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

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Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby hermod » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:02 am)

[background: Rudolf Vrba is claimed to be involved with the Vrba–Wetzler / WRB report which supposedly revealed what was allegedly going on inside of Auschwitz. Moderator 8/4/14]

I know that some of the Auschwitz registers are missing, but I wonder if there was a "Walter Rosenberg" (Vrba's real name) registered at Auschwitz on June 30, 1942. Is the register for that day missing or not? Has any revisionist verified if Rudolf Vrba was really at Auschwitz-Birkenau in the first place? Or can that information be found somewhere online?
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby Hektor » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:15 pm)

He claims he had prisoner number 44070 in Auschwitz
Vorsitzender Richter:
IIa. BIIa. Und da waren Sie im Block?
Zeuge Rudolf Vrba:
14.
Vorsitzender Richter:
14. Und welche Häftlingsnummer hatten Sie dort? [Pause] Welche Häftlingsnummer? Sie haben doch eine Nummer.
Zeuge Rudolf Vrba:
Ja. Meine Nummer ist 44.070.
Vorsitzender Richter:
44.070. Und haben Sie in Auschwitz und in Birkenau unter Ihrem richtigen Namen Vrba gelebt, oder hatten Sie
Zeuge Rudolf Vrba [unterbricht]:
Nein.
Vorsitzender Richter:
Welchen Namen hatten Sie da?
Zeuge Rudolf Vrba:
Ich habe in Auschwitz und Birkenau unter dem Namen Walter Rosenberg gelebt.
https://archive.org/details/Zeugenaussa ... itzProzess
... and that he was registered there under the name Walter Rosenberg.
Don't know, if there are any documents to support this. And even if that's so, who says he's the same Walter Rosenberg that was there. Since Jews were also working for the "politische Abteilung", they'd access to camp documents. Take for instance Raya Kagan:
https://archive.org/details/Zeugenaussa ... itzProzess
Yes, that's right. Jews were working for the camp Gestapo, even if that sounds funny in the light of the many homicidal gassings taking place at the same time.

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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby hermod » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:16 pm)

Hektor wrote:He claims he had prisoner number 44070 in Auschwitz
... and that he was registered there under the name Walter Rosenberg.
Don't know, if there are any documents to support this. And even if that's so, who says he's the same Walter Rosenberg that was there. Since Jews were also working for the "politische Abteilung", they'd access to camp documents. Take for instance Raya Kagan:
https://archive.org/details/Zeugenaussa ... itzProzess
Yes, that's right. Jews were working for the camp Gestapo, even if that sounds funny in the light of the many homicidal gassings taking place at the same time.


That would be very interesting to get the complete list of the names registered on the day when Vrba/Rosenberg supposedly entered Auschwitz. That would prove that the man who "told the world about the killing factories at Auschwitz" wasn't even there, what I strongly suspect. That would hurt the Holo-myth pretty badly. And the contrary (Vrba indeed registered) wouldn't prove his story was true anyway. I think it's a matter which deserves to be investigated further...
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby Hektor » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:09 pm)

Agreed, that would be interesting. Same applies to Wetzler of course.
If I recall it rightly some of the descriptions given by Vrba and Wetzler contain details that someone that had been there would NOT have gotten that wrong. I think it relates to the distances of the camp sides. Some of the stuff they tell seems to be "insider" knowledge though.


This is how they displayed the gas chamber in a sketch. Not even remotely how it would have looked from Birkenau camp:
Image

I am almost certain those guys were never in Auschwitz Birkenau before 1945.

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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby hermod » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:21 pm)

Hektor wrote:Some of the stuff they tell seems to be "insider" knowledge though.


Stuff that they could know from other sources. Auschwitz-Birkenau was everything but a closed "hermetic" place in a remote area as it is in the Holocaust narrative. The Polish resistance had infiltrated all parts of the camp very early and exchanged information, food & medicine with the outside world (http://codoh.com/library/document/2336/). Inmates were often released (after performing a labor sentence for a while). Others were transferred to other camps. And others escaped long before Vrba and Wetzler allegedly did. The Birkenau "giant crematories" were reported in Allied newspapers before they were equipped with gas chambers for propaganda purpose. No secrecy at Auschwitz during WW2, contrarily to what today's Holocaust promoters claim.

IMO, Vrba and Wetzler received general information about the Birkenau crematories & a few details about life at Auschwitz and they concocted their horror story with that.

Can't be a coincidence that Vrba is a cousin of Vera Atkins'...who later extracted Hoess' 'confession' with other Jews.
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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby Hektor » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:33 pm)

It could be a manufactured story from fragments being picked up. What puzzles me is how they got the core of the story that wrong, since the shape of the crematoria could even be seen from the camp, especially during the period it was constructed.

The Vrba - Atkins link is indeed highly suspicious.

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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby hermod » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:39 am)

Hektor wrote:It could be a manufactured story from fragments being picked up. What puzzles me is how they got the core of the story that wrong, since the shape of the crematoria could even be seen from the camp, especially during the period it was constructed.


Very probably because Vrba was never a prisoner at Auschwitz.


The Vrba - Atkins link is indeed highly suspicious.


That's true. That's a matter of suspicion. Firstly, because the probability of having 2 relatives 'telling the world' about the Top Secret "Holocaust" at Auschwitz from 2 separate channels is close to zero. Secondly, because I strongly doubt that the wealthy Rosenbergs, who were close friends of the almighty Rothschilds, would have stayed in Slovakia when there were anti-Jewish persecutions there. IMO, Vrba was already in the United States, UK or Canada years prior to his alleged farcical arrest (http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Vrb ... and_arrest).
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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby Hektor » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:27 am)

hermod wrote:....

That's true. That's a matter of suspicion. Firstly, because the probability of having 2 relatives 'telling the world' about the Top Secret "Holocaust" at Auschwitz from 2 separate channels is close to zero. Secondly, because I strongly doubt that the wealthy Rosenbergs, who were close friends of the almighty Rothschilds, would have stayed in Slovakia when there were anti-Jewish persecutions there. IMO, Vrba was already in the United States, UK or Canada years prior to his alleged farcical arrest (http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Vrb ... and_arrest).


The metapedia entry tells us more:
When he arrived in Birkenau, Vrba discovered that Alfréd Wetzler (1918–1988), someone he knew from his home town, was registered as prisoner no. 29162 and working in the mortuary.[8] The men decided to try to escape together. With the help of the camp underground, at 2 p.m. on Friday, April 7, 1944—the eve of Passover—they climbed inside a hollowed-out space in a wood pile. It was outside Birkenau's barbed-wire inner perimeter, but inside an external perimeter the guards kept erected during the day. The other prisoners placed boards around the hollowed-out area to hide the men, then sprinkled the area with Russian tobacco soaked in gasoline to fool the guards' dogs, a trick learned from Russian POWs.[16]
At 20:33 that evening, the commander of Auschwitz II, SS-Sturmbannführer Fritz Hartjenstein, was informed by teleprinter that two Jews had escaped.[17] The men knew from previous escape attempts by others that, once their absence was noticed during the evening appell, the guards would continue to search for them for three days. They therefore remained in hiding until the fourth night, almost getting caught at one point when a guard stood on the pile of wood right above them. On April 10, wearing Dutch suits, overcoats, and boots they had taken from "Canada," they made their way south, walking parallel to the Soła river, heading for the Polish border with Slovakia 80 miles (133 km) away.[12] Vrba later wrote that they had no contacts outside the camp and had to make their way alone, but Ruth Linn, dean of education at the University of Haifa—who wrote a book about Vrba—writes that Polish historiography argues the escape was possible only with help from the Polish underground inside the camp, and local people outside it.[18]
... It says that Wetzler worked in the mortuary, exactly which one I don't know. But if it is one of the two big ones, he actually should know it from own observation. Now try to reconcile this with their sketch.

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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby Dresden » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:59 am)

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Vrb ... and_arrest

"Vrba was born in Topoľčany, Czechoslovakia, to Elias and Helena (née Grunfeldova) Rosenberg, who owned a steam sawmill in Jaklovce, near Margecany. Because he was a Jew, he was excluded at the age of 15 from the Gymnasium (high school) of Bratislava under the Slovakian version of the National Socialists' Nuremberg Laws, and went to work instead as a labourer in Trnava"

Why didn't he go to work at his parents' sawmill?

"He wrote in his memoirs that jobs were hard to come by for Jews; anything available went first to non-Jews

Did his parents also prefer non-Jews to their Jewish son at their sawmill?.....if so, why?

Why did Vrba's wealthy parents boot him out of the house when he was only fifteen years old?
Did he have some character defects?.....ya' think?

"There were restrictions on where Jews could live and travel, and they were required to wear a Yellow badge. In 1942 it was announced that Jews would be sent to "reservations" in Poland, beginning with young men. Vrba, then aged 17, decided to flee the country to join the Czechoslovak Army in England"

"With money from his mother, he took a taxi from Topoľčany to Hungary....."

That must have cost a pretty penny!

".....but as a Slovak Jew with no legal status he realized it would be dangerous to continue on to Britain"

Why didn't he realize that before he hailed the cab?

Some things just don't seem to make sense!
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby Hannover » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:40 pm)

Something fishy here, from the cited Metapedia link.
... the story is misrepresented in Hebrew textbooks by omitting Vrba's and Wetzler's names or by minimizing their contribution. Standard histories of the Holocaust typically refer only to the escape by "two young Slovak Jews," "two chaps," or "two young people,"[45] and represent Vrba and Wetzler as emissaries of the Polish underground in Auschwitz, as mere messengers
Indeed, by obscuring the names the matter becomes more difficult to trace & sort out.
Steve F. says:
"He wrote in his memoirs that jobs were hard to come by for Jews; anything available went first to non-Jews
Yet his family owned a sawmill.
"There were restrictions on where Jews could live and travel, and they were required to wear a Yellow badge. In 1942 it was announced that Jews would be sent to "reservations" in Poland, beginning with young men. Vrba, then aged 17, decided to flee the country to join the Czechoslovak Army in England"
"With money from his mother, he took a taxi from Topoľčany to Hungary....."
Travel restrictions, yet he & his mother traveled with money?

A whole lot doesn't make sense, especially the whoppers which make up the easily debunked WRB / Vrba–Wetzler report.

Remember who it is that controls Wiki & Meta content.

Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course

racist 'Jewish Internet Defense Force' manipulates

Also tons of info. on Vrba and Wexler here:

Jean-Claude Pressac and the War Refugee Board Report
By Carlo Mattogno
http://codoh.com/library/document/2314/

Rudolf Vrba's Gas Chamber Amnesia
By Thomas Kues
http://codoh.com/library/document/641/

Did WRB Report co-author Wetzler exist?

Rudolf Vrba, star 'eyewitness' - lie after lie

"eyewitness" Vrba - a liar demolished in court

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby hermod » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:34 pm)

Hektor wrote:The metapedia entry tells us more:
When he arrived in Birkenau, Vrba discovered that Alfréd Wetzler (1918–1988), someone he knew from his home town, was registered as prisoner no. 29162 and working in the mortuary.[

... It says that Wetzler worked in the mortuary, exactly which one I don't know. But if it is one of the two big ones, he actually should know it from own observation. Now try to reconcile this with their sketch.


A mortuary at Auschwitz-Birkenau? Impossible! Everybody knows that the Auschwitz-Birkenau morgues were not morgues but homicidal gas chambers and the crematory ovens were used solely to cremate the countless corpses of gassed Jews. Well, almost everybody... :roll:
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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby Hektor » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:01 pm)

hermod wrote:....A mortuary at Auschwitz-Birkenau? Impossible! Everybody knows that the Auschwitz-Birkenau morgues were not morgues but homicidal gas chambers and the crematory ovens were used solely to cremate the countless corpses of gassed Jews. Well, almost everybody... :roll:
That's why one needs more specifics about Wetzler, were exactly was he working what Krema. And indeed his/their testimony is going to cause problems for them:
1.) If he worked at the crematorium, why is his lay-out sketch completely bogus?
2.) If he worked in the mortuary, where was the gas chamber (your point).

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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby hermod » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:08 pm)

hermod wrote:Auschwitz-Birkenau was everything but a closed "hermetic" place in a remote area as it is in the Holocaust narrative. The Polish resistance had infiltrated all parts of the camp very early and exchanged information, food & medicine with the outside world (http://codoh.com/library/document/2336/). Inmates were often released (after performing a labor sentence for a while). Others were transferred to other camps. And others escaped long before Vrba and Wetzler allegedly did. The Birkenau "giant crematories" were reported in Allied newspapers before they were equipped with gas chambers for propaganda purpose. No secrecy at Auschwitz during WW2, contrarily to what today's Holocaust promoters claim.


A wartime newspaper article to illustrate what I've said:

Image
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article ... y=dateDesc

In March 1943, the Polish government-in-exile knew that there were several crematories at Auschwitz-Birkenau. Of course, the Polish government-in-exile used the high death rate due to typhus epidemics raging at that time (http://www.historiography-project.com/m ... books.html - http://www.heretical.com/miscella/rudolf.html) for anti-German atrocity propaganda, but it shows that details about Auschwitz-Birkenau were known outside.
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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby Hektor » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:32 pm)

It seems the "Leichenhalle" / mortuary was an annex to a building in Auchwitz Birkenau. That's what I am getting from an email by Rudolf Vrba alias Walter Rosenberg.
From: vrba <[email protected]>
List Editor: [email protected]
Editor's Subject: Re: Information about Joseph Neumann (Vrba)
Author's Subject: Re: Information about Joseph Neumann (Vrba)
Date Written: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:45:52 CDT
Date Posted: Sun, 26 Sep 1998 16:45:52 -0400
Re: Information about Joseph Neuman

I knew Joseph Neumann, former "old " prisoner in Auschwitz-Birkenau.
When I met him for the first time, he worked in the Leichenhalle in Birkenau
(BIb), it was situated as an adnex to Block 27. There he worked together
with Alfred Wetzler who had a close prisoner number (29162) to that
of Neumann. I met Josef Neumann for the first time in January 1943 in the
Mortuary in Birkenau.

I knew also the SS-man Pestek, who facilitated the escape of Lederer
from Birkenau. This I described in my book "I cannot forgive", recently
re-published by Regent College in Vancouver and available from Regent
Bookstore ( e-mail: [email protected])in English and from
Haifa University Press in Hebrew.

I met Joseph Neumann again in Frankfurt/Main in 1964 during the Auschwitz
trial, in Frankfurt.

Joseph Neumann lived after the war in USA, 812 N.Wells Street,Chicago 10,
Illinois,where he had his business (New Metal Crafts Inc., Designers ,
Manufacturers, Lighting fixtures,Ornamental Iron and Bronze). His phone
number at that time was SUperior 7-6991-2-3-4.

He died several years ago but his family lives in Chicago.

Rudolf Vrba
[email protected]
http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse. ... &user=&pw=

On the escapes the following observation has been made:
The Telegrams to the Gestapo
In the archives (block 24), I could see that I was the only visitor and that there were several employees who appeared to be idle. I was provided with a volume containing the telegrams received by the Staatspolizeistelle of the Gestapo in Hohensalza. These were original documents. Among them were the telegrams reporting the escape of Rosenberg, Wetzler, Mordowicz and Rosin. I studied them for 45 minutes, comparing them with the other telegrams. In outer aspect (paper, seals, ink) they seemed authentic, although since I lack the qualifications of an expert, I am not really the one to express an opinion as to their authenticity. As for the content, it surprised me that they offered no marks of identification for the prisoners, not even their camp register numbers.....
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v10/v10p-99_Aynat.html


Something seems to be fishy here.

Here is the report btw. http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/pdf ... lish45.pdf But without the drawings.

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Re: Was Rudolf Vrba registered at Auschwitz?

Postby hermod » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:01 pm)

Hektor wrote:
hermod wrote:....A mortuary at Auschwitz-Birkenau? Impossible! Everybody knows that the Auschwitz-Birkenau morgues were not morgues but homicidal gas chambers and the crematory ovens were used solely to cremate the countless corpses of gassed Jews. Well, almost everybody... :roll:
That's why one needs more specifics about Wetzler, where exactly was he working what Krema. And indeed his/their testimony is going to cause problems for them:
1.) If he worked at the crematorium, why is his lay-out sketch completely bogus?
2.) If he worked in the mortuary, where was the gas chamber (your point).


Apparently, Wetzler was working at "a small wooden mortuary" close to Krema II (http://codoh.com/library/document/640/).

Hektor wrote:On the escapes the following observation has been made:
The Telegrams to the Gestapo
In the archives (block 24), I could see that I was the only visitor and that there were several employees who appeared to be idle. I was provided with a volume containing the telegrams received by the Staatspolizeistelle of the Gestapo in Hohensalza. These were original documents. Among them were the telegrams reporting the escape of Rosenberg, Wetzler, Mordowicz and Rosin. I studied them for 45 minutes, comparing them with the other telegrams. In outer aspect (paper, seals, ink) they seemed authentic, although since I lack the qualifications of an expert, I am not really the one to express an opinion as to their authenticity. As for the content, it surprised me that they offered no marks of identification for the prisoners, not even their camp register numbers.....
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v10/v10p-99_Aynat.html


Something seems to be fishy here.


So it seems that Vrba was indeed at Auschwitz (if the telegram mentioned by Aynat is authentic).
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915


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