Do Revisionists have a verfiable death total of Jews?

[blake121666]

[Per request, the posts in this thread were moved from other recent threads threads. M1]

Sure, over a million Jews died, primarily due to epidemic typhus.

What is your source for this? I'm not of the opinion that the number is that high. If you're not sure of this statement, I wouldn't bandy it about as much you are doing lately. Or at least qualify it in some way.

[Hannover]

Sure, over a million Jews died, primarily due to epidemic typhus.

What is your source for this? I'm not of the opinion that the number is that high. If you're not sure of this statement, I wouldn't bandy it about as much you are doing lately. Or at least qualify it in some way.

Died how?
I too find that assertion to be highly questionable.
Perhaps that is including Jews who died while in the Red Army, but still.
A verifiable source is certainly welcomed.

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. Truth needs no protection from scrutiny. The tide is turning.

- Hannover

[Dresden]

Sure, over a million Jews died, primarily due to epidemic typhus.

What is your source for this? I'm not of the opinion that the number is that high. If you're not sure of this statement, I wouldn't bandy it about as much you are doing lately. Or at least qualify it in some way.

Hannover said:

"I too find that assertion to be highly questionable, a source is certainly welcomed. Perhaps that is including Jews who were in he Red Army, but still"

What struck me as odd is what Eric Hunt said on the Deanna Spingola interview:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/deanna2/20 ... nd-friends

@ 8:46 Eric Hunt says:

"Jurgen Graf estimates that approximately one million Jews died as a result of Nazi persecution"

I didn't know Jurgen Graf had the Jewish death toll that high.
And..... "Nazi persecution"?

Sounds kinda strange to me.

[Hannover]

Steve F.:

"I too find that assertion to be highly questionable, a source is certainly welcomed. Perhaps that is including Jews who were in the Red Army, but still"

What struck me as odd is what Eric Hunt said on the Deanna Spingola interview:

Eric Hunt Interview (Aug 4, 2014) - Deanna Spingola

I'm paraphrasing because I don't want to go back and listen to the whole interview, but he said something like:

"Even Jurgen Graf says over a million Jews died from Nazi persecution"

I didn't know Jurgen Graf had the Jewish death toll that high.
And..... "Nazi persecution"? Sounds kinda strange to me.

Very strange. If Graf is Eric's source then I'm curious why Eric wouldn't check Graf's source before stating what I consider to be nonsense. And I wonder if Graf actually has a verifiable source. It could be a case of that unwarranted & strange 'throw them a bone' psychological phenomenon that appears in people who haven't quite cast away a near lifetime of conditioning.

- Hannover

[Eric Hunt]

I found Mr. Graf's estimate believable but have asked for it to be broken down. He's not saying the Germans directly killed 1 million, but directly or indirectly, between one and one half million perished as a result of NS persecution.

Take the Majdanek estimate Mattogno and Graf agree to, of over 40,000 dead at Majdanek alone. Then realize there were many more camps and ghettos. What's all that surprising about the 1 million figure then, guys? The Red Cross estimate isn't sufficient.

Mr. Graf can choose to break down his estimate for you you, but I was looking for somewhat of an official Revisionist number and he wrote me the following -

In my first revisionist book I estimated that between 500.000 and one million Jews died as a result of German persecution. (This does not include other Jewish victims, such as Jewish soldierts killed in the war or Jews deported by the Soviets who died during or after the deportation). Today I would put the figure of Jews who perished as a result of NS persecution at between one and one and a half million.

The question is, are the Germans uniquely evil for putting Jews in concentration camps when Japanese were also put in camps in America at the same time? No. Without homicidal gas-chambers-disguised-as-shower-rooms and six million, they are not.

Were the Germans responsible for the typhus epidemic? No. They tried to prevent it with the very item claimed to exterminate Jews, the insecticide Zyklon B.

In addition, the Allies are directly or indirectly responsible for Jewish casualties due to their bombing campaign.

Millions perished due to epidemic typhus in Europe throughout history, and it was a huge problem in WW1 as well.

Some have put the death toll for the Eisenhower death camps at a figure near one million. This is in contention, however.

War is War. War is hell, war is terrible.

But without homicidal gas chambers designed as shower rooms, a deliberate extermination policy, and six million, nothing makes Jewish "Holocaust" deaths any more important than any non-Jewish POWs who died during World War 2. Most of the deaths need to be blamed on "God" for creating typhus spreading lice instead of the demons the Jews created in the cartoon Nazis.

[Hannover]

Yes, I know all about typhus & Zyklon-B, you're preaching to the choir on that.

I don't consider Graf's number as "official" by any stretch. His work is generally quite good because he back things up, but what's surprising in this case is his lack of verifiable data. That's hardly what Dr. Faurisson calls 'exactitude'. I need something much more solid, something better than what someone 'figures'.

Why aren't the Red Cross numbers sufficient?

And what is the basis for 40,000 at Majdanek?

I said nothing about the Eisenhower's camps where perhaps hard facts do exist. I haven't really looked into that.

Yes there were more camps, but how big were they? Surely they were not remotely the size of Auschwitz.

There should be a lot of Jew remains / mass graves if Graf is correct. Where are they?

Too many questions, too little facts for my taste.

Thanks, Hannover

[Eric Hunt]

Dear Hannover,

I wasn't only addressing you, but others who questioned the 1 million figure. Graf wrote 1 - 1.5 million.

Graf might want to break it down when he has time, I know he's very busy.

I would suggest for you to do a similar breakdown.

The red cross records are only of the larger, famous concentration camps in Germany, Austria, Poland, and Czechoslovakia. They also allegedly only include registered prisoners. Tattoo-less evacuation Jews like Zisblatt weren't registered (we're told those not registered were gassed).

The Red Cross records don't include the ghettos and labor camps where Jews also perished in large numbers.

It doesn't include anything about Jews sent East of the Bug River. Like Korherr, The Red Cross wrote nothing specific about the death toll of the Minsk and Vilnius Ghettos or Maly Trostinecs.

So Graf's taking into account all of that with his figure.

Perhaps we can work together to offer an estimated "Revisionist" total death toll broken down into locations, etc.

[Hektor]

That 1 million figure was already present in early works of Juergen Graf. Not sure how he got that number, but I think he used the guesstemate as a form of accommodating those that otherwise would charge him with "white-washing the Nazi-Regime".

[Hannover]

That 1 million figure was already present in early works of Juergen Graf. Not sure how he got that number, but I think he used the guesstemate as a form of accommodating those that otherwise would charge him with "white-washing the Nazi-Regime".

Exactly, the weak 'throw them a bone' phenomenon.

Eric:
I realize that it would be statistically inevitable that there would be deaths by disease in those areas, but who is to say that some / much of the disease would not have occurred without German interference. Jews and others in the east traditionally lived in unhealthy, unsanitary environments, hence the source of most of the typhus problem in the first place.
But still the question remains, do we have proof that Jews in these other locations actually died in numbers that would add up to 1 million? I think not.

Thanks, Hannover

[Dresden]

Eric Hunt said:

"Jurgen Graf estimates that approximately one million Jews died as a result of Nazi persecution"

"I found Mr. Graf's estimate believable but have asked for it to be broken down. He's not saying the Germans directly killed 1 million, but directly or indirectly, between one and one half million perished as a result of NS persecution"

Germany is not guilty of that blood libel.

First of all, the "Nazis" didn't have a policy to persecute the Jews; they had a policy to deport them.

Secondly, world Jewry declared war on Germany; Jews were seen as a subversive element and could not be left free to sabotage the war effort by bombing and setting fire to German factories.

Hitler believed that it was Jews who stabbed Germany in the back with the Versailles Treaty.

Jews in American newspapers were calling for the total destruction of Germany.
Jews had to be contained.

Hitler didn't start the war, it was forced on him.

Nevertheless, there were Jewish businesses operating in Germany up until 1945.

Gypsies were running, or working at, the Berlin Circus in 1945.

Hitler had the camps designed for the inmates' health and contentment, so they could work and not revolt.

Unlike the Japanese interned in the California desert, who had dirt floors, outdoor toilets, and no running water; the "Nazi" camps had running water, warm showers, disinfestation facilities, and infirmaries.

Some of them had hospitals, dental clinics, libraries, brothels, huge kitchens, bakeries, art museums, zoos, orchestras, theater groups, plays, cinema, recreational sports, soccer fields, swimming pools, workshops, gardens, maternity wards, facilities for religious services, kindergartens, canteens, saunas, crematoria.....on and on it goes.

In one of your videos there are Jews talking about playing soccer in late 1944.

Jews were not being persecuted as a National Socialist policy.

Camp Commandants and guards were arrested, tried, and convicted(some were executed) for going against "Nazi" policy and mistreating and killing some prisoners.

The overwhelming majority of deaths were due to typhus outbreaks and starvation in the last few months of the war due to Allied terror bombing of infrastructure and supply lines.

Even though Germany was bombed into the Stone-age by the combined forces of Jewish Communism and Capitalism, yet the "Nazis" tried their best to keep the inmates alive and healthy.

Like Arthur Butz says:

"There was a war going on during World War II"

How many Jews were deported from Dresden, Hamburg, and hundreds of other German cities, thereby saving them from being roasted alive?

"I found Mr. Graf's estimate believable.....He's not saying the Germans directly killed 1
million"

Ok, Eric.....let's say that between one and one and a half million Jews were indirectly killed due to "Nazi" persecution.

Without waiting for Graf to "break it down", what are some of the ways Jews were directly and indirectly killed in your opinion, Eric?

On a side note, just to see Jurgen Graf's frame of mind, he says:

"This does not include other Jewish victims, such as Jewish soldiers killed in the war..."

But, Mr. Graf.....soldiers aren't "victims", even if they are Jewish; soldiers are casualties.

On another side note:

I like most of Gaf's work; he's one of my favorite Revisionists.

"Giant with Feet of Clay", the controlled demolition of Raul Hilberg's "Destruction of European Jewry", is one of my all-time favorites!

Thank you, Eric!

[Eric Hunt]

I'm a bit busy right now , but you guys can offer your own estimates of how many Jews died due to NS persecution.

Justifying interning / expelling them because they were a subversive fifth column is different from the death toll.

The 1 million figure isn't surprising to me, and is on the low end of Graf's estimate.

At least 1 million German POWs died while in Allied custody, too.

We are not throwing them a bone, it's what we really believe based on the evidence.

I'm trying to figure out how to best reach people with our message, part of that is by constructing our "positive" account of what actually happened rather than refuting / denying everything the other side claims.

[Hektor]

The 1 to 1.5 million isn't a conservative estimate by Graf. It's more like adding a larger number to camp death. With other words adding into this ghetto death, pogroms (locals acting as responses to Jewish involvement in Communism and atrocities), reprisal killings, KIA and general mortality. My guesstimate would be that it's lower then 600.000 unless you are adding 70 year olds that died from a heart attack as well. Then of course you get higher figures. I don't think the Jewish mortality was higher as the one of other populations involved in the war.

[Kingfisher]

We are not throwing them a bone, it's what we really believe based on the evidence.

Absolutely, Eric. The bone is a red herring, if you'll forgive the mixed metaphor. What matters is evidence, and only evidence. Where we don't have it, or don't have enough, we should suspend judgement.

[Hannover]

We are not throwing them a bone, it's what we really believe based on the evidence.

Absolutely, Eric. The bone is a red herring, if you'll forgive the mixed metaphor. What matters is evidence, and only evidence. Where we don't have it, or don't have enough, we should suspend judgement.

But where is Eric's "evidence"?

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. Truth needs no protection from scrutiny. The tide is turning.

- Hannover

[Kingfisher]

We are not throwing them a bone, it's what we really believe based on the evidence.

Absolutely, Eric. The bone is a red herring, if you'll forgive the mixed metaphor. What matters is evidence, and only evidence. Where we don't have it, or don't have enough, we should suspend judgement.

But where is Eric's "evidence"?

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. Truth needs no protection from scrutiny. The tide is turning.

- Hannover

Ask Eric that. I was supporting his generalisation.