His replies are contained here.http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=24162
Yellow is most commonly associated with jaundice and liver or digestive system complaints and neither fits death by CO or starvation. Nor does it fit those he said died from suffocation in the crammed chambers. I have never claimed yellow is possible, I have shown Berg's claims about obvious bodies being red is wrong.
So, as before I do not know why Wiernik said yellow to either and I cannot provide a medical explanation. What I will say is that he exhibits the same issues many other witnesses do to traumatic large scale events which will have cause him PTSD. Witnesses get details wrong, they exaggerate, they make mistakes. To dismiss Wiernik as a liar ignores evidence which corroborates his narrative of events at TII as it functioned as a death camp. So unlike you, I will not dismiss him as a lair.
This pathetic explanation ignores how Wiernik and other people are apparently so good with details they can remember the sizes of pits, the numbers of Jews on transports, entire gassing prodedures, the names of brutal nazis and Jewish sonderkommandos to the finest detail, but they still mix up red and yellow? HAHAHAHAHA. Nessie is trying to salvage the unsalvageable.
Furthermore, he claims TII was a death camp. "Refutations" of Eric Hunt aside, nobody on the other side of the debate, including Nessie, can bring themselves to admit that Jews went various places via these camps
and therefore did not die. The transportation system was in fact in order because the Germans changed the railway gague as far east as they need to
to get the job done. As that last hyperlink to my post with a topic on codoh and one on rodoh shows, nobody denies what the Germans did to change the railway system. Which would in fact enable mass transports of Jews further east than even David Cole wants to admit.
Much more proof of where these living Jews ended up during and after the war is locked up in archives we have not gotten to yet. Although a few examples have leaked out. Werd @ J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go then?'
Who knows how many more were seperated from relatives thought to be dead but were in fact not? Thanks to Putin's outlawing of revisionism in Russia though, we may never know how many more cases of seperated brothers like the Hollander brothers may have occured. So claiming TII was a death camp is wrong. Therefore, Wiernick is wrong on that front as well.
When it comes to my bit about 13 and 30 in Polish and how they sound nothing alike and how not even the smaller numbers, which would be reasonable depths of burial pits sound NOTHING like 30 in Polish, he refuses to admit I am correct linguistically speaking about the Polish numbers and instead offers this...
Again, please bear in mind not all of my posts appear when you try to accuse me of dodging. Mistakes are made by human error caused by a whole host of factors. The ones I would associate with being a victim of the Holocaust are; fear, stress, fatigue and pressure at the time. Recalling events afterwards there will be survivor guilt, pride, trauma. http://www.rootcauselive.com/PowerPoint
"Exposure to these stresses leads to reduced sensory capacity, fatigue,
and reduced mental alertness. These to reduced sensory capacity, fatigue,
and reduced mental alertness. These are all manifestations of human fatigue
and all greatly increase the chances that the people concerned will make
a slip, lapse or mistake."
All I asked was how stress can cause someone to mishear a statement about the depths of pits? Has it happened before that stress can alter a person's hearing? Why argue such if people under normal situations can mishear a 13 for a 30 in English due to bad pronounciation or a fair distance between the two parties? Hello.........
How can Jews under stress remember the most minute details about pit sizes, numbers of Jews per railway car or transport, names of cruel nazis and jewish sonderkommandos but not the colour of corpses? Do you not see your intellectual hypocrisy, Nessie? Do you not realize the games you are playing with your own source? This is classic cherry picking.
First of all these statements about fatigue DO NOT EXPLAIN why in one specific instance the Polish underground would write that pits in Belzec were thirty meters deep...information they CLAIMED to have gotten from a German on the inside. Was the German suffereing stress too?
When I mention the absurd stories about murder in Belzec, he replies with this.
Such information came from Polish intelligence from second, third hand reports from people who saw stuff but did not know what was actually going on.http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot
. ... _8672.html
"It is unknown by which means the Jews are liquidated in the camp. There are three assumptions: (1) electricity; (2) gas; (3) by pumping out the air.
With regard to (1): there is no visible source of electricity; with regard to (2): no supply of gas and no residue of the remaining gas after the ventilation of the gas chamber were observed; with regard to (3): there are no factors to deny this [possibility]. It was even verified that during the building of one of the barracks, the walls and floors were covered with metal sheets (for some purpose)."
The report admits the exact cause is unknown and it makes mistakes, like the metal sheeting, just like many intelligence reports make mistakes. You seem to think that witnesses and intelligence should be far more accurate and mistake free than they actually are. Hence I cannot and do not need to tell you how rooms were filled with water or mass electrocutions took place because those reports are wrong about those means of death.
Try giving a more accurate source, Nessie. Tell us what it is. It is straight from the Arad quotation I gave on this board before.http://holocaustcontroversies.yuku.com/ ... _v2JKO6XXR
"Reports on the Situation in Occupied Poland" were published in London periodically by the Polish Ministry-of-Interior-in-Exile. Some of these publications were retained in the Underground archives in Poland and the archives of the Government-in-Exile in London. In the report of the Delegatura for April 1942, Belzec was mentioned:
11. "Jews arrived in Belzec (the township) looking for a witness who would testify that Jews are being killed there. They were ready to pay 120,000 zloty. They did not find a volunteer. It is unknown by which means the Jews are liquidated in the camp. There are three assumptions: (1) electricity; (2) gas; (3) by pumping out the air.
With regard to (1): there is no visible source of electricity; with regard to (2): no supply of gas and no residue of the remaining gas after the ventilation of the gas chamber were observed; with regard to (3): there are no factors to deny this [possibility]. It was even verified that during the building of one of the barracks, the walls and floors were covered with metal sheets (for some purpose). "
So it is Arad himself which is saying this report is bogus? So the Polish undeground he writes about is peddling lies or honest mistakes, Nessie? Let's read those reports again shall we, Nessie? Let's look at that APRIL 1942 report. Mattogno quoted some of it on page 11 of his book.Werd @ Question re Mattogno's Belzec book
The first reports of Belzec appeared on April 8, 1942, a few weeks after the opening of the camp:16
“Among the Jews terrible desperation. We now know that every day there is a train arriving at Belzec from Lublin and one from Lvov, each with twenty cars. The Jews must get off, are taken behind a barbed-wire fence and murdered by an electric current or poisoned with gas and then the corpses are burnt
16 Z. Klukowski, Dziennik z lat okupacji, Lublin 1959, p. 254.
17 “pradem elektrycznym”
19 “zwloki pala”
On November 15, 1942, Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart, a member of the Polish National Council, made a declaration, in which he paraphrased the above report:24
“The methods applied in this mass extermination are, apart from executions, firing squads, electrocution and lethal gas-chambers. An electrocution station is installed at Belzec camp. Transports of settlers arrive at a siding, on the spot where the execution is to take place. The camp is policed by Ukrainians. The victims are ordered to strip naked ostensibly to have a bath and are then led to a barracks with a metal plate for floor. The door is then locked, electric current passes through the victims and their death is instantaneous. The bodies are loaded on the wagons and taken to
a mass grave some distance from the camp.”
24 Jacob Apenszlak (ed.), The Black Book of Polish Jewry, American Federation for Polish
Jews, New York 1943, p. 131.
And how, as Arad claimed
, was it verified that the 'chambers' in Belzec had metal on the floors and walls? For what purpose? If the intenet is to gas them, why are metal floors AND WALLS needed by the nazis in gas chambers? Arad never explains and neither do you Nessie.
You seem to think that witnesses and intelligence should be far more accurate and mistake free than they actually are.
Why would a German lie about pits being thirty meters deep in Belzec? How could be possibly be mistaken? Was he blind or something? Come on, Nessie.
If the Poles are supposed to be telling the truth about where they got this information from, these questions deserve to be asked. Why would the Poles say this about pit depth anway? Stress and fatigue? Was the German suffering from fatigue and the Poles believed him? Or were the Poles who published these oral reports so stressed at their typewriters that they mixed up 30 with some other number in Polish that sounds nothing like 30? Or did they too simply write down the oral report without questioning the depth of the pits?
Is that really the best you have? Claiming every mistake is an honest one that can be easily explalined? Get real. Unless you can give examples of stress causing people who AREN'T COLOURBLIND or in need of glasses as was already established about Wiernick, to mistake one colour for another, while simultaneously being able to remember other more difficult, more intricate and detailed things (cherry picking hypocrisy with a source as I explained above) then I don't buy your theory Wiernick did make an honest mistake about the corpse colour. Unless you can show proven examples of others before or after him did it for reasons you claimed, there is no HARD EVIDENCE for you to claim Wiernick honestly made such an error. Try actually strengthening your inductive argument, Nessie like a proper scientist!