There is now a 3rd edition of Raul Hilberg's opus

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friedrich braun
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There is now a 3rd edition of Raul Hilberg's opus

Postby friedrich braun » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Feb 24, 2004 2:13 pm)

There is now a 3rd edition of Raul Hilberg's

"The Destruction of the European Jews

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Hilberg/ ... ition.html

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Hannover
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Feb 24, 2004 2:46 pm)

Shyster Hilberg debunked here:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=100

and here:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=312

And his work is considered 'monumental'. What a joke.

- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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TruthSeeker
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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:46 pm)

I've been having a "debate" with an exterminationist on another forum, and he claims that he has studied the "holocaust" for 3 years. He also argues that anyone who hasn't read Hilberg's book is unfit to have any discussion about the holocaust. I presented him the transcript of the cross-examination by Doug Christie, and needless to say, he claimed that it's irrelevant. Does anyone know what happened to Hilberg? Is he still around, etc.? I know he refused to testify in the 1988 trial. But such a "monumental" and "great historian" should be around today to debate the claims made by revisionists, no? Where did he disappear? Or am I the one who is out of the loop with regards to his works? :?:

Anyway, great post, Hannover.

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Postby friedrich braun » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:58 pm)

Hilberg is NOT a historian by professional training but a sociologist.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:16 pm)

friedrich braun wrote:Hilberg is NOT a historian by professional training but a sociologist.

Yeah, the 1985 version of his book says that he's a Professor of Political Science (and I just noticed that the Yale website also says that).

Is an online biography available? I have not found any so far. I know that he has visited the camps only once, for one day only. That was mentioned in the trial transcript.

Anyway, the guy is by no means an authority on the "holocaust." I have the shorter version of his book, and it doesn't present ANY "proof." Moreover, I believe he fails to take into account, while talking about the number of victims, the number of Jews who emigrated. I think I read something about that either on IHR or CODOH. And it's true. He doesn't subtract the emigration numbers from the total number, at least in the version I have. :?

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THE GIANT WITH FEET OF CLAY

Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:35 am)

Jürgen Graf has written a book about Hilberg's "The destruction ...". The titel is "Riese auf tönernen Füssen" or in English "The giant ...". You find the English version here: http://vho.org/GB/Books/Giant/ and the German one here: http://www.ety.com/tell/reviews/hilberg/rauleinl.htm .

Graf writes among other things:

Hilberg's book has 1.300 pages. He describes very detailed the discrimination and social exclusion of the jews in Germany and later in the occupied countries. Hilberg presents many documents to proof this.

Hilberg does not present any proof of an order (by Hitler or anyone else) to murder all jews. Only 15 pages are about the mass gassings. That means only 1 % of his book are about the item that makes the holocaust singular. And additionally: this is the only chapter where Hilberg does not present a single document or proof. Only testimonies.

The book of Graf is very recommendable. :wink:

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TruthSeeker
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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:40 pm)

Indeed. What many people don't realize is that proofs that there were anti-semetic feelings do not necessary imply that they were acted upon.

Just like a proof that an order for extermination was given does not mean that the orders were necessarily carried out. So even if it were proven that there was an order, without proof that there was indeed extermination, it can't do much by itself. At least that is what logical proofs require anyway.. So unless the link between the given order and the carrying out of the order is established by proving that for example Jews were systematically exterminated, in gas chambers, etc., the order by itself does not prove that there was a holocaust. Does it?

And that fact is exactly what many many exterminationists try to hide. Their efforts to prove that there was an order would be pointless if they cannot prove that the orders were carried out. Intentions are one thing. Acts are another. Proving that there were plans of a holocaust is not enough to commemorate a holocaust, is it? :D

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:35 pm)

TruthSeeker, your point is well taken; why bother arguing about an alleged extermination order when there was no extermination? You apply logic, True Believers do not.

True Believers simply lose on both counts; there was no extermination order, there was no extermination. They can show no evidence for either.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:00 pm)

Yeah, you're right.

Even their "best" "historians" and "scientists" cannot prove it. They've got no proof. None. All they have are "givens", which they consider as proofs. So they are all guilty of begging the question, using as "proof" what they have to prove. :D


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