Evidence for the presence of gassed children in other places

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Werd
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Evidence for the presence of gassed children in other places

Postby Werd » 6 years 2 days ago (Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:02 pm)

A clip from the David Icke board.

As some of you probably know, some children from villages Lidice and Ležáky were supposedly murdered in gas vans after the actions following the assassination of Heydrich. They were supposedly gassed at Chelmno in summer 1942, in the case of Lidice the number is 82 (or 81, depending on the source), in the case of Ležáky the number is 11 children.

But, as turned out from the "overlooked" correspondence dated to 1943-1944 discovered by certain students, at least 65 children from Lidice and Ležáky were still alive in June 1944, hence two years after they were supposedly murdered! According to a recent article published in Die Welt, a document from June 1944 tells us, that 65 children from villages Lidice and Ležáky are accommodated in two locations. 46 of them are accommodated in interment camp at Svatobořice and 19 are accommodated in children´s home in Prague - Krč. They planned to transport them to the East, yet they point out this is not possible, obviously, it was June 1944.

Here is the most relevant part:
Frank Metzing und Kerstin Schicha stützen bei ihren Recherchen insbesondere auf einen Briefwechsel zwischen verschiedenen NS-Stellen über die Kinder von Lidice aus den Jahren 1943 und 1944. Am 13. Juni 1944, also zwei Jahre nach dem Verschwinden der 81 Kinder aus dem Sammellager Lodz, schreibt ein enger Mitarbeiter des Deutschen Staatsministers für Böhmen und Mähren, daß 65 Kinder von Tschechen, die standrechtlich abgeurteilt wurden, geschlossen untergebracht worden seien, davon 46 im Internierungslager in Swatoborschitz und 19 in einem Kinderheim in Prag. "Diese Kinder stammen aus den ehemaligen Ortschaften Liditz und LezÅaky, deren Einwohner im Zusammenhang mit den Massnahmen nach dem Attentat auf SS-Obergruppenführer Heydrich erschossen bezw. in ein Konzentrationslager eingewiesen wurden. Hierbei ist ein Abtransport nach dem Osten in Vorschlag gebracht worden", heißt es wörtlch in dem Brief. Für Frank Metzing liegt hier ein deutlicher Hinweis darauf vor, daß die Kinder im Sommer 1944 noch leben und möglicherweise die NS-Zeit überlebt haben.


For further reading, see also article here

I´ve also found a Czech article here which is based on the discovery of these students. This article also explains that STB in Czechoslovakia, i.e. something like KGB in Russsia, still searched in 1969 for children who survived, this is evident from the documents from Institute for Study of Totalitarian Regimes. Hence the author concludes that STB probably knew about the correspondence which prove that majority of allegedly gassed children was still alive in 1944 and the story of their murder is hence bogus.

Looking forward to see more about it in the future.

Allow me to present some rought internet translations. Here is the first hyperlink. Paragraph indentations mine.

A track that is so far no one followed

The Children of Lidice, long officially declared dead, the killing machine of the Nazis are probably still escape

From ARMIN GUIDE

In the summer of 1942, the Wehrmacht and the SS made ​​the village of Lidice near Prague to the ground. The men in the village were killed, abducted women in the concentration camps. Of their children, but lacked any trace. Two Berlin students have taken up the search again

Berlin. - In old Lidice are no people live longer. The ruins were left, built a museum, erected a memorial. A wooden cross on the mass grave recalls the ermorderten men. Where once stood the school, today there is a statue in memory of the kidnapped children. Lidice near Prague has always been renowned addition to the French Oradour as a synonym for the brutality of the Nazis against defenseless civilians, for the elimination of an entire map as a senseless act of revenge. All 184 men of the village massacred by the Nazis in 1942, they abducted the 195 women and 105 children.

While much of the women survived the concentration camp, most of the children are yet officially dead because two Berlin students raise but after years of research doubt. "We believe that at least some of these children still alive," says the 26 year old Jurassic Student Metzing Frank, who is with his girlfriend the same age, politics student Kerstin Schicha, the children of Lidice on the track.

Lidice is 1942, a small, inconspicuous place in the occupied by the German Wehrmacht "rump Czechoslovakia". But the end of May brings the village to the attention of the Gestapo. On the 27th of the month, Reinhard Heydrich, SS-Obergruppenführer and Deputy Reich Protector of Bohemia and Moravia, victim of a bombing of two Czech partisans. Traces of the perpetrators seem to lead to Lidice. Although the Gestapo can not prove that the bombers have contacts with village residents, but on June 9, falls after leaders meeting in Berlin, the decision to exterminate the village. Still in the same night, make units of Order Police, Gestapo and Wehrmacht to work. The shootings completed an executive command under the SS-Hauptsturmführer Max Rostock.

The women and children are trafficked to nearby Kladno, where they are separated on June 13. Some of the children die later, others are given to families in the kingdom as "eindeutschungsfähig". 81 children are left and are in the collection camp Lodz (Lodz under the Nazis) brought. In the records of the camp they appear for the last time on July 3rd. The last sign of life apply 14 a day later stamped postcards. The children disappear without trace from the scene.

After the second world war, the search for the children of Lidice.

The UNRA search service, an organization of former refugee agency of the United Nations, reports in April 1947, a total of 17 children had now returned home. Among them are several children who has made a search organization of the Berlin magistrate locate. After cleavage of the Magistrate in 1948 set the Berliner their search, however. The Czech authorities set out to search for the children, mainly to the 81 who were quartered in July 1942 in a camp in Lodz. 1949, they explain the 88 hitherto not discovered children officially dead. Testimony of several witnesses seem to support this finding. But doubts remained.

So twelve years later expresses the prosecutor in the Jerusalem Eichmann trial, Gideon Hauser, the view, the children of Lidice were probably still alive. The death sentences imposed on Adolf Eichmann was acquitted on this point. Frank Metzing and Kerstin Schicha based in particular on an exchange of letters between various Nazi parties of the children of Lidice from the years 1943 and 1944 On 13 June 1944, two years after the disappearance of 81 children from the transit camp Lodz during their research, writes a close associate of the German minister of state for Bohemia and Moravia, that 65 children of Czechs who have been tried summarily, were housed closed, of which 46 are in detention in Swatoborschitz and 19 in a children's home in Prague.

"These children come from the former villages Liditz and LezÅaky whose inhabitants were shot in connection with the measures after the assassination of SS-Obergruppenführer Heydrich BEZW. Sent to a concentration camp. Here a dispatch to the East has been brought in proposal", ie it wörtlch in the letter. Is for Frank Metzing here a clear indication before that the children in the summer of 1944 are still alive and may have survived the Nazi era. He wonders: "All writers who have dealt with the issue of Lidice, overlooked this letter." Frank Metzing for eight years been working on the unresolved fate of the children of Lidice.

Metzing wrote in 1989 for the State Image Berlin a training booklet for teachers on Lidice and becomes increasingly more packed by the urge to find out more. Together with his girlfriend Kerstin Schicha he first begins to circulate the literature. But that is not enough the two. They conduct research in archives from Berlin to Jerusalem, asking the surviving women of Lidice and dig through mountains of documents to be provided by the Czech foreign ministry. They find support in the historian Peter Steinbach, who teaches at the Free University and also the Head of the memorial is German resistance. Although the two students get very little financial support and do most of the work in their spare time, ensteht 1994, the exhibition "We are the children of Lidice", which is first shown in Berlin and is now housed as a permanent fixture in Lidice. Meanwhile Metzing and Schicha are so far advanced in their research that they believe to have three of the former children of Lidice found.

The final proof is already difficult because the people if they "Germanized" were wearing different names than their birth name. Additionally, they both Jungend researchers from Berlin haen only photos of the affected persons from childhood. Therefore (LKA) was formed a five-member working group on Berlin's state criminal police office, checked with forensic means the identity of the "suspects". "Only when we are really sure that there are children from Lidice in them, we will approach them and they inform about their fate from which they probably do not know anything," says Frank Metzing.

For those affected, this could well mean a shock. But Metzing is certain: "The people want to know who they are and where they come from." Unlike previous, communist times, is the search for the children of Lidice today in Prague support. "In particular, the State Department is very helpful," says Metzing. Thus came as the LKA-working group after a request from the Berlin branch of the Czech Embassy, ​​the State of Berlin pos untersützen the two students about. One request, the interior minister Jörg Schönbohm (CDU) "very much" nachkam.

In Prague it has since also indicate the contribution to the improvement of the still-difficult relationship between Czechs and Germans, the two German students do their research. Your goal to wipe out the village forever, the Nazis did not achieve. The new Lidice was established with international donations after the second world war very close to the original village.

© Axel Springer SE 2014 All Rights Reserved


Here is the second German article hyperlinked by Bob. Paragraph indentations mine.

The Children of Lidice

By Anne Rasmus

03.08.2001

Ten years ago, two students of the Free University of Berlin began with research, which attracted much attention from the public. The students looked after the children of Lidice, the Czech village of that which had been wiped out in the early hours of June 10, 1942 by German soldiers - in retaliation for the assassination of Czech patriots to the Reich Protector of Bohemia and Moravia, Reinhard Heydrich. What happened to looking after the children of Lidice and the two Berlin students? Frank Metzing, then a law student at the Free University, is now a lawyer, Kerstin Schicha works as a freelance editor and just completed her German language exam.

As early as 1989 Frank Metzing had made on the subject of Lidice. "At first I thought this would be easy, because there are too Lidice as Nazi crimes a lot of material," says Frank Metzing. But in the libraries he was little, and in the archives, he came across many unanswered questions. In particular, the fate of the children was not sufficiently documented. "The thesis that the children were killed in the extermination camp, was not to be so maintained." 1991 Metzing found in Kerstin Schicha a committed partner. Also they disturbed the many inconsistencies. "We have found so many errors in the research and found that scientists - like it for lack of time or other reasons be -. Often tend to write off their colleagues So really pull themselves serious errors through the entire literature since 1950"

The 173 men of Lidice were shot by the SS, the women had been driven to the nearby county town of Kladno and there snatched them children. There were 105 Ten children were sorted according to racial lines and given up for adoption in German families. Seven infants were in a Prague orphanage. The fate of the remaining 1949 shelved, because it was assumed they had been gassed in Chelmno extermination camp. The women came to Germany in the Ravensbrück concentration camp. 52 of them did not survive.

The two Berlin students encountered in their research in archives on a correspondence of 1943-44, in which the Lidice children were mentioned. In the letter, an SS department stated that 65 children from Lidice and Lezaki - a place that was destroyed shortly after Lidice - were closed housed in a children's home in Swatoborschitz. Supposedly, but the kids were 1,942 perished in the camp. The students wanted to investigate this contradiction. For the past ten years they roll records, talk to witnesses, ask for authorities - all in addition to study and work. 1995 an exhibition of their research results, including the first time a complete list of the children, part of the Museum of the rebuilt village of Lidice was. Even Prime Minister Vaclav Klaus traveled to the opening. The documentation was also seen in Berlin.

To this day, the fate of 81 of the then 15-year-old half to children is unclear. The research of the students were considered by the surviving women from Lidice suspicious at first, too much hurt the wounds. "But today it is so that the survivors support our work and promote," says Frank Metzing. 17 of the hundred children were already to 1949 found by a search in the ruins of post-war Europe. For example, Vaclav hemp that had been abducted five days after his eighth birthday at home. Him and his two sisters are classified as "Aryan" one. They should be brought up in families of Nazis as German. But Vaclav hemp was not taught. In the following three and a half years he went through eleven camps and orphanages. Constantly changed to his name and identity. So he called in the German children's homes Hans-Joachim Strauss, was only allowed to speak German and should be a decent Hitler Youth. When they found him on the basis of a photograph of his parents, he was housed in the Austrian Traunstein as poles Jan Wenzel. When he was eleven he returned.

The example reveals how difficult the search is, especially since the research was hampered by deliberate deceptions. Eight years studied the students - in archives in Koblenz, Berlin, Jerusalem, Potsdam and Prague. They managed to follow some old tracks to living persons who may be declared dead children of Lidice. So presumably the two-year Josef Suchy has come later than Robert in Brandenburg Beelitz to foster parents. "They did not pursue this track," says Kerstin Schicha because you did not know that the children of Lidice in Eindeutschung new names, birth dates and birth places were given.

From 1997, even the Berlin state police helped the students in their search. Using the latest computer models was calculated based on photos, like the little Josef Suchy as a grown man could look like. The students actually succeeded, relatives of the foster parents Roberts, who had since died locate. "They have confirmed to us that he has previously spoken of Lidice and escape from a camp and you could communicate only with difficulty with him, because he said in his childish prattle much Czech," says Frank Metzing. Three months before they tracked him in Frankfurt am Main, Robert died at the age of 58 years. His alleged mother in Lidice is no longer alive. So it is even too late for a genetic analysis that could prove that Robert was actually Josef Suchy from Lidice.
In another case - a woman from Prague on - could be a pending blood test bring certainty whether they had actually been kidnapped as a child from Lidice.

What is the purpose Kerstin Schicha and Frank Metzing with their research? You tell yourself that their search is not "sometime on a family reunion tantamount" to. "This is after more than fifty years, I think, also to cruel," says Kerstin Schicha. "When a mother sees her child again and say to yourself, my God, what I may have missed everything." But what a relief it would be for the last still living octogenarian women, if they were told that their child has not died, but had a life, though in Germany, under another name.

Just as Anna Neschborova who had one snatched her just born daughter Vence Slava in June 1942 in prison. For years she dreamed of her. Most recently, she saw her in a dream with the face of a nearly sixty year old woman. Survival // Lidice is called the Czech village that had been wiped out in the early hours of June 10, 1942 by German soldiers - in retaliation for the assassination of the Reich Protector Reinhard Heydrich. The FU-student Frank Metzing and Kerstin Schicha research for ten years, which is from the few survivors, especially the children brought to Germany to become.


And now here is the Czech article rougly translated by the internet.
Tuesday, September 30, 2014

The fate of the children of Lidice

Tomáš Krystlík

No Esti unison historians claim that 82 of the 98 children of Lidice was most likely murdered in Kulmhof KZ (concentration camp Chelmno nad Nerem), in each case, that died. The following facts, although do not clear their fate, but historians claim Czech greatly into question.

13th 6th 1942, Lidice children separated from their mothers in Kladno, three children were still positively selected as capable of Germanization, six pregnant women transported to Prague, where she later gave birth. The six children (not included in the total number of Lidice 98 children) received a straight German names and surnames to shoot their origin due to the adoption říšskoněmeckými families and it was entrusted to the Principal racial and osidlovacímu Office SS (Rasse- Siedlungshauptamts und der SS, Rush). Two infants died in 1942 and two in 1943 gave birth to a baby Another lady Horníková of Lidice in KZ Ravensbrück, because of her pregnancy, then no one noticed. The child was separated from his mother, his fate is unknown. Czech historians is the total number of children of Lidice count.

Seven children under the age of one year, taken 13th 6th Lidice mothers in Kladno was transferred to a hospital in Prague Charles Square, later the Institute in Prague-Krc. One of them died in Krči. Three of them meet the criteria Germanic race [the author has in mind apparently racial criteria "poněmčitenosti" - that is "satisfactory" relative share of six European Aryan races, not non-existent "Germanic race" - Ed. Luke Beera] and were offered for adoption to families, especially members of the SS. One of those children recognized as capable of Germanization, Dagmar Cheerful, for unknown reasons, was declared incompetent again for Germanization and delivered to the migration centers Umwandererzentrale Posen, Dienststelle Litzmannstadt, Gneisenaustraße 41 (Migration headquarters Poznań, Łódź workplace), where traces of it disappear. Czech historians one girl but added to the children odvezeným to KZ Kulmhof, the fate of the other three infants, allegedly unsuitable for Germanization ignore.

Rush sent the remaining 88 children (98 - 3-7 = 88) still in June 1942 to the same migration centers in Litzmannstadt, infants remained in Prague. His head SS-Obersturmbannführer Hermann Krumey several times wrote to the paper IV B 4 in the Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA, Reich Security Main Office), which was subject to Adolf Eichmann, the fact that they are subject to the Lidice children Sonderbehandlung (special treatment) or not. Eichmann had never responded. After the war generally accepted unsubstantiated assumption that Eichmann on Krumeyovy telex trap after all responded and ordered the killing of children of Lidice. But for this very crime of Israeli Eichmann trial in 1961 acquitted. In addition, the same Israeli court concluded that the use of the term Sonderbehandlung (special treatment) may not predict the death of children [Schicha - Metzing]. Similar doubts expressed and fled Häftlinge of KZ Auschwitz Rudolf Vrba (Walter Rosenberg) saying: "That's why we ask whether Sonderbehandlung always meant death in the gas chambers whether or not another meaning" [Lanzmann].

In Litzmannstadt was seven more children of Lidice as capable of Germanization and transferred to the Imperial orphanages for adoption later. The remaining 82 children have disappeared without a trace (Czech historians they are added to them as infants Dagmar Vesely, according to them, ie 88-7 + 1 = 82). Last postcards sent them to relatives in the Protectorate with the forwarding address Litzmannstadt, Gneisenaustraße 41, are stamped by the post office in Litzmannstadt dated 4th 7th 1942, the day before 3rd 7th 1942 Lidice children were still kept in the status messages of people in migration center in Gneisenaustr. 41, all with a note Abgang (exit).

After the war Czechoslovakia sought in Germany, 890 children abducted during the German occupation, including children from Lidice, especially public challenges. It was very difficult, Germany was divided into occupation zones, full of refugees and displaced from other countries, many of whom did not speak German. The German authorities, who participated in the execution of Lidice, no longer exist, their Acts were scattered after previously occupied countries or destroyed. It must also be assumed that children were offered to adoptive parents as well as children of German origin with German names, without any relationship to Bohemia, and also that adoptive parents may not want to go.

In December 1945 the three siblings found Lidice In April 1946, one additional child in August 1946 by two other children from Lidice [Schicha - Metzing]. 13th 4th 1947 search service UNRRA reported that 17 children from Lidice enrollment of children's village in Prien on Chiemsee trip to the homeland [München Neue Zeitung, 14 4th 1947].

He searched further. It was found that the Litzmannstadt the Gestapo drove trucks. Because of several tens of kilometers northwest of Litzmannstadt was in smoothing KZ Kulmhof (Chelmno nad Nerem), it was assumed that children died there. One witness, a gardener from Kulmhof in December 1947 testified that he saw sometime in the summer of 1942, they were in a concentration camp by truck brought some children. According to his testimony after the war in that concentration camp and found a Czech coins and books. Also found a receipt confirming payment of rent a truck to the 2nd 7th 1942 litzmannským Gestapo is an indication of his license plate, which by Czech historians 82 (81) children from Lidice migration centers in Gneisenaustr. 41 apparently picked up (2nd 7th spared, but the day after, 3rd of 7, were still in a state in Gneisenaustraße!). Several confirm accrue on the truck with the license plate to KZ Kulmhof there also, but they all have different dates prior to the strike date. Termination gardener is not enough to prove that there were children from Lidice brought and murdered. The KZ Kulmhof were stationed during the war Czech Jews, among them children, so finding of the local Czech coins and books can not be the death of Lidice children to draw. In addition, there is the testimony of a nurse from Rush, who allegedly accompanied the Lidice children until the end. But for those children with proven so nobody cared [Schicha - Metzing].

Czech historians united to 17 returnee children from Lidice (but 98-17 = 81, which is not 82 children). It also did not address that only 12 of them were selected for Germanization as suitable for adoption, while others by them for disposal. So the five children of Lidice or eleven, to use the data collected Kerstin Schichová and Frank Metzing) found after the war in Germany and returned to Czechoslovakia came from that 82členné group that was intended by them to destruction, was reportedly taken to a nearby KZ Kulmhof, which was , again reportedly been killed. The explanations do not bother. This incidentally proves that even part of a group of children from Litzmannstadt survived, adopted by German families.

Otherwise, the share indicated Lidice children suitable for Germanization implausibly low, because under investigation racial and Resettlement Main Office SS (Rush) from September 1943 to February 1945 was 31.2% of the Czech population can be considered "desirable or viable population growth", ie to immediate Germanization, and the other 58% of the Czech population was suitable for "the process of re-Germanization". The survey showed that only 10.8% of Czechs were racially unfit [Küpper]. A Lidice village was deviating markedly from the Protectorate average.

If we accept the thesis of the death of children from Lidice in KZ Kulmhof, so it is a mystery why about them as living, took place between 1943 and 1944 sprightly correspondence between the German authorities, one to two years after the alleged death! Also on 14 6th 1944 (!) Wrote a personal referent German minister of state for Bohemia and Moravia SS-Standartenführer Robert Gies: "65 children Czechs, who were sentenced by martial law is uniformly Accommodation - 46 of them (Czech, not German ) internment camp in Svatobořice and 19 in an orphanage in Prague-Krc. These children come mainly from the former villages of Lidice and Lagers, whose residents were measures after the assassination of SS-Obergruppenführer Heydrich shot or sent to a concentration camp ... It was suggested their deportation to the East. Their deportation is no longer possible "[Eindeutschung der Kinder von Lidice, Schicha - Metzing]. Why all historians concerned with executions in Lidice ignored this correspondence, we can only guess if there was indirect evidence, why did so.

Institute for the Study of Totalitarian Regimes (USTR) has in the Archive of Security Services (ABS) instrument from which it is evident that the Czechoslovak State Security (StB) in December 1969 ie. 24 years after the war, looking for survivors and children of Lidice is still missing [Baroch (VFE)]. It can be concluded that the secret police of correspondence between the German authorities in the years 1943-1944 she knew that at least the majority of Lidice children sent away by the Gestapo from Litzmannstadt early July 1942, still alive in June 1944 and in the Protectorate, so in the circumstances mentioned in the above Gieseho letter to presume that the war could survive. Under these circumstances, Czech historians have attributed Theme: falsification of history to state the order or nationalistic infatuation. Shameful.

PS The Lidice Memorial sculpture is 82 children who died, apparently where each of them has it in his likeness - materialized Czech myth.

Sources:

Bars, Pavel: The documentary captures how StB even 25 years after the war searched for the Lidice children, Aktuálne.cz, 8th 6th 2012 http://tinyurl.com/nofsdsn

Eindeutschung der Kinder von Lidice, 1943 Bundesarchiv Koblenz, NS 19/375, S. 9 ff

Küpper, René Karl Hermann Frank (1898-1946). Politische Biographie eines Sudetendeutschen Nationalsozialisten. Oldenbourg, München 2010; Czech: Karl Hermann Frank (1898-1946). Political biography of the Sudeten German National-Socialists. Argo, Prague 2012

Lanzmann, Claude: Shoa. DTV Deutscher Taschenbuch, München 1993

Schicha, Kerstin, Metzing, Frank: Die Kinder von Lidice. In: Tribune. Zeitschrift zum Verständnis des Judentums. Frankfurt am Main, 34th Jahrgang, Heft 134, 2nd quartal 1995

(VFE): After Lidice children searched and StB in the 60s. Parliamentary sheets, 10 6th 2012 http://tinyurl.com/powdl9u


This text was published on the author's blog and is reproduced here with his kind permission.

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Re: Evidence for the presence of gassed children in other places

Postby Hektor » 1 year 1 month ago (Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:10 pm)

From the referred German article:
Das Schicksal der übrigen wurde 1949 zu den Akten gelegt, weil man annahm, sie wären im Vernichtungslager Chelmno vergast worden. Die Frauen kamen nach Deutschland ins Konzentrationslager Ravensbrück. 52 von ihnen überlebten nicht.Die beiden Berliner Studenten stießen bei ihren Forschungen in Archiven auf einen Briefwechsel von 1943/44, in dem auch die Lidice-Kinder erwähnt wurden. In dem Brief einer SS-Dienststelle hieß es, dass 65 Kinder aus Lidice und Lezaki - einem Ort, der kurz nach Lidice zerstört wurde - geschlossen in einem Kinderheim in Swatoborschitz untergebracht worden seien. Angeblich aber waren die Kinder 1942 im Lager umgekommen.
http://archive.is/XJl4g

They basically say that it was claimed the kids were gassed in Chelmno. Meanwhile there was correspondence about them years later.


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