Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French attack

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Kladderadatsch
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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Kladderadatsch » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:34 am)

Kingfisher wrote:
Kladderadatsch wrote:If anyone can make out @7:15 and @10:59 a little better, let me know and I'll fix the subs. Along, of course, with any other corrections people might have . . .
7:15 = Tel un cancer elle s'etend... (sorry accents are tricky on my keyboard)

10:59= On voit aujourd'hui ou en est l'Europe.


Thanks Kingfisher, that's great. I also finally picked out "ulcéré" @13:00. (I had cheated and put in "insulted" since that fit the context.) It's funny, it's like one develops a mental block somehow: they all seem perfectly obvious now that I can hear them. But then that's why we all need another pair of eyes and ears sometimes. Much appreciated.
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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby borjastick » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:08 am)

Here's an excerpt from a fairly spikey exchange with an old mate of mine on Facebook yesterday. It was all to do with the Paris shooting and free speech which this thread discusses. He got worked up and fired this at me:
..., I stand by what I said about Freedom of Speech being universal, but I'm not going to discuss Holocaust Denial. I don't believe man landed on the Moon one bit, but saying the Holocaust didn't happen? Fuck me! We're not on the same page, not the same book, not even in the same Library. If you want to post about the Holocaust not happening, then go ahead. I won't shoot or bomb you, but I won't enter into that discussion - mainly because there are plenty of things that make us friends where we have common interest, and similar views. But, crikey! Holocaust Denial! It explains a lot about some of your other posts.


Interesting eh how some people rationalise their own bizarre thoughts but completely miss the point of discourse and of course free speech on matters such as the holocaust. So he's happy to announce he doesn't believe man was on the moon, though the scientific evidence would have you otherwise, but will not begin to learn about the holocaust when the scientific evidence debunks all of his commonly held belief in the matter.
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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Hannover » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:49 am)

B.
There's just too many beliefs that are shaken when those like your old pal open their eyes. So many simply can't handle the truth. The implications overwhelm them into denial of science, logic, & rational thought processes. Think of all the reductio ad hitlerum arguments that necessarily crumble.

In many ways it is comical. So many actually show physical symptoms when confronted with truth:

twitching, shaking, nervous & incoherent language, hyper-ventilation, bulging eyes, dry mouth, pacing, grinding teeth, etc.

Interesting and entertaining to observe. :lol:

Best, Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of Truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby hermod » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:07 am)

Today's most moral standards come from the Holohoax. Our societies are founded on a trail of reductio ad hitlerum values which are based on historical lies. "Holocaust denial" amounts to a reset button. Few people can stand the collapse of their entire value system and ethical standards.

The non-belief in moon landings doesn't damage somebody's moral standards. That's easy. A little game without consequences.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Hannover » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:14 am)

'What, things that I was taught in government schools are wrong?'

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of Truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:35 pm)

At last something in the mainstream press deviating somewhat from the uncritical and unquestioning worship of of Charlie Hebdo, raising at least one of the issues raised in this thread, and in an unexpected place, the Guardian. A cartoon sequence by the cartoonist Joe Sacco, a committed Palestinian sympathiser. http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/jan/09/joe-sacco-on-satire-a-response-to-the-attacks
Sacco (uniquely in the MSM, I think) raised the issue of Siné, fired by Charlie Hebdo for "anti-semitism".
[Siné's] article and cartoons in the magazine Charlie Hebdo relating to Jean Sarkozy's marriage to Jessica Sebaoun-Darty, the Jewish heiress, touched off a controversy, after journalist Claude Askolovitch described them as anti-Semitic.[3] The magazine's editor, Philippe Val, ordered Siné to write a letter of apology or face termination. The cartoonist said he would rather "cut his own balls off", and was promptly fired.[4] Both sides subsequently filed lawsuits, and in December 2010, Siné won a 40,000-euro court judgment against his former publisher for wrongful termination.

Maurice Sinet also reported a death threat posted on a site run by the Jewish Defence League. The text said "20 centimeters of stainless steel in the gut, that should teach the bastard to stop and think".
Wikipedia

Here is the background from the NewYork Timeshttp://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/world/europe/05france.html?_r=0

Of course, no mention of Vincent Reynouard.

(Edited as accidentally posted before completion)

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:50 pm)

In 2008 Philippe Val, the then-editor of Charlie Hebdo, fired one of its cartoonist for refusing to apologise for an "anti-Semitic" comment that appeared in the publication in July 2008; the cartoonist was later prosecuted for hate crimes.

French cartoonist Sine on trial on charges of anti-Semitism over Sarkozy jibe

A Left-wing cartoonist is to go on trial on Tuesday on charges of anti-Semitism for suggesting Jean Sarkozy, the son of the French president, was converting to Judaism for financial reasons.

By Henry Samuel in Paris 6:00AM GMT 27 Jan 2009


Maurice Sinet, 80, who works under the pen name Sine, faces charges of "inciting racial hatred" for a column he wrote last July in the satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo. The piece sparked a summer slanging match among the Parisian intelligentsia and ended in his dismissal from the magazine.

"L'affaire Sine" followed the engagement of Mr Sarkozy, 22, to Jessica Sebaoun-Darty, the Jewish heiress of an electronic goods chain. Commenting on an unfounded rumour that the president's son planned to convert to Judaism, Sine quipped: "He'll go a long way in life, that little lad."

A high-profile political commentator slammed the column as linking prejudice about Jews and social success. Charlie Hebdo's editor, Philippe Val, asked Sinet to apologise but he refused, exclaiming: "I'd rather cut my balls off."

Mr Val's decision to fire Sine was backed by a group of eminent intellectuals, including the philosopher Bernard-Henry Lévy,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/4351672/French-cartoonist-Sine-on-trial-on-charges-of-anti-Semitism-over-Sarkozy-jibe.html


see also:

On Thursday evening, the American Jewish Committee castigated a number of Western news outlets for "self-censorship," because they blurred details of several cartoons published by Charlie Hebdo that had angered Muslims.

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Wikileaks-Jewish-pro-censorship-lobby-of-legitimized-attacks-on-Charlie-Hebdo-387183
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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:12 pm)

We see once again that the right to freedom of speech depends very much on what you subjects you speak about:

France wins battle to ban 'anti-Semitic' comedian

French comic who is considered anti-Semitic was banned from performing just hours after a court in Nantes said he could go ahead with his show

By Hannah Flint 8:31PM GMT 09 Jan 2014


A top court in France has upheld the ban on a performance by the controversial comic Dieudonne M’bala M’bala, a move the government has hailed as a “victory” over anti-Semitism.

The decision comes less than two hours before the comedian was due to give the opening performance of his national tour in the western city of Nantes, despite his lawyers claiming a breach of his freedom of expression.

The ban had been lifted only yesterday by local judge Jean-Francois Molla who said that a perceived risk to public order could not be used to “justify as radical measure as banning the show”. However, France’s highest administrative court, the Council of State, ruled that the show should be allowed to go ahead.

Interior Minister Manuel Valls, who has led the campaign to ban the comedian’s performances, said: "We cannot tolerate hatred of others, racism, anti-Semitism or holocaust denial. That is not France. This is a victory for the Republic.”

The decision marks a landmark break with legal precedent in France, where previous attempts to ban Dieudonne from performing foundered against constitutional provisions on free speech.

The government has accused the comedian of insulting the memory of Holocaust victims, and his show has widely been condemned as anti-Semitic. He currently faces seven convictions for anti-Semitic hate speech as well as an investigation that he owes tax authorities more than 800,000 euros.

News of the decision was booed by Dieudonne’s fans who had assembled outside the venue where he was due to perform. Police vans are already camped out in Nantes after expectations that both supporters and opponents of the comedian will demonstrate this evening.

The 47-year-old comedian was due to give 22 shows as part of a national tour across France. The first was to be performed to 63,000 people at 43 euros a ticket. A government circular had recommended that local governments suspend Dieudonne’s show if they believed it could lead to criminal offences.

Bordeaux and Brittany followed suit in addition to Nantes. The ruling today leaves the rest of his tour uncertain.

However, many remain divided over whether the performances should be banned altogether. The League of Human Rights said a ban would “rally support for Dieudonne for those who consider themselves oppressed”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10562264/France-wins-battle-to-ban-anti-Semitic-comedian.html



The biggest threat to French free speech isn’t terrorism. It’s the government.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/what-it-means-to-stand-with-charlie-hebdo/2015/01/08/ab416214-96e8-11e4-aabd-d0b93ff613d5_story.html
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:47 pm)

Good posts BR, which make clear that the "free speech" they claim to be defending is self-congratulatory bullshit.

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 4 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:24 am)

Kingfisher wrote:Good posts BR, which make clear that the "free speech" they claim to be defending is self-congratulatory bullshit.


Thanks Kingfisher.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 4 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:23 am)

Peter Hitchens writes in the Mail:

As for freedom, here’s an interesting thing. The French Leftist newspaper Liberation reported on September 12, 1996, that three stalwarts of Charlie Hebdo (including Stephane ‘Charb’ Charbonnier) had campaigned in their magazine to collect more than 170,000 signatures for a petition calling for a ban on the French National Front party. They did this in the name of the ‘Rights of Man’.

You, like me, may dislike the National Front greatly. But lovers of liberty simply do not seek to ban parties they do not like.

This is a double paradox. The French National Front exists mainly because a perfectly reasonable concern about mass immigration was sneeringly dismissed by the mainstream French parties. Something similar is happening in Germany, where large demonstrations against ‘the Islamisation of the West’ in many cities have been scornfully attacked by that country’s elite.

If reasonable calls for restrictions on immigration had been heeded when they were first made, right across Europe, would we now be in the mess we are in? If it is officially regarded as irresponsible, or ‘exploitation’, or ‘sickening’, or ‘divisive’ to say this, then we do not live in freedom, and those who claim to speak in its name are not telling the truth


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3OWiUqyUL
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Moderator » 4 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:28 am)

I have removed posts in this thread which were not relevant to the free speech topic of this thread.
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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Kladderadatsch » 4 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:53 pm)



lol, it's about time ramzpaul made his CODOH debut. Equal-opportunity offending, complete with pigs, Muslims, Anne Frank, Fabius-Gayssot, and lots of jabs at our reigning hypocrats. And some fine pronunciation of that there French talk!

Charlie He :lol: bdo!


(For anyone who hasn't seen the film, the stuff about "here piggy piggy" refers to the rape scene in "Deliverance." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRxUbv90lLI NSFW.)
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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Meanjean » 4 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:05 pm)

I live in the US, and we have social muzzling. You can lose friends, jobs, spouses and social standing by even attempting to speak the truth. The 6 Million is so ingrained, there seems to be no escaping it.

I was engaged to an intelligence agent many moons ago. We were discussing the Holohoax, I mean the Holocaust, and he told me that the Jews had been kicked out of every country they entered for the past 2,000 years. WHAT ARE THEY DOING WRONG??? That turned me around completely. :bom: Been on their tails ever since.
Waiting to be told the right thing.

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Werd » 4 years 10 months ago (Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:22 pm)

The truth is ramzpaul has always been hip to the Zionists, but he has been hush hush about it on youtube. I can tell he used to read judicial-inc.biz and also the old anti Jewish libertyforum.org site. In August 2008 with the Russian Georgia War, he made a video pointing out historical deja vu. How when the Russians went into Ossetia to protect the ethnic Russians, it was a lot like Hitler was going into Poland to protect the ethnic Germans that we know were slaughtered by the communists. He took that video down. He was catching too much shit for it and I think he almost had his account suspended.


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