FREE ERNST ZUNDEL RALLY!

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Hannover
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FREE ERNST ZUNDEL RALLY!

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:57 pm)

FYI.
- H.

FREE ERNST ZUNDEL RALLY!

March 28, 2004
2 PM

Metro West Detention Center

111 Disco Rd. Toronto , Ontario , Canada .

Ernst Zundel is a political prisoner being persecuted and prosecuted for no crime other than expressing his views on the Second World War. At the behest of the powerful and vindictive Holocaust Lobby, Mr. Zundel is being held, without bail, in solitary confinement at the Metro West Detention Center . He is being treated worse than a common criminal, denied even the basic amenities provided to other prisoners.

In surreptitious, Star Chamber hearings, held behind closed doors, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), relying on the questionable testimony of highly-politicized government agents, concluded that Mr. Zundel - an avowed pacifist - is a "security threat to Canada ." Mr. Zundel was not allowed to attend, or present evidence in his own defense at these secretive proceedings. He has been denied the right to face his accusers and their accusations.

Mr. Zundel came to Canada in 1958 and by any standards, was the model immigrant and citizen, first putting himself through university in Montreal and later becoming Canada 's premiere graphic artist. His artistry graced the covers of Canada 's top national magazine and his paintings - which invariably reflect his pacifist, nonviolent philosophy - adorn the walls of some of the finest homes in the country. In his profession, he provided meaningful employment to countless Canadians, both young and not-so-young. Literally thousands of people - of every race, color and creed - are proud to call Ernst Zundel their dear friend.

Ernst Zundel has never been convicted of any crime in Canada . His only "crime" is a passionate defense of freedom of speech - the right to defend his own German people against the libelous accusations of a very vocal and powerful lobby. For his noble efforts, he has been beaten, bombed, slandered and even thrown in jail by a shameful system, all too willing to do the bidding of these special interest groups.

For over ten years, Ernst Zundel defended the rights of Canadians to freedom of speech, even taking the battle to the Supreme Court of Canada, where he ultimately won a victory for all Canadians in 1992, with the abolition of the archaic, "False News" law.

Now Ernst Zundel needs YOUR help. Show the world that his fight for the right of free expression was not in vain. Join freedom-loving people in defense of our rapidly-eroding rights.

WHEN: SUNDAY, MARCH 28, 2004, 2 pm

WHERE: 111 Disco Rd , Toronto Ontario

Disco Rd and Carlingview Drive

WHY: For Freedom and Justice

more:
http://www.zundelsite.org/zundel_persec ... 28-04.html
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby rrohde » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:05 pm)

What do you think... what will happen to Ernst Zuendel ultimately? Is there chance for him to be released and go on with his life, or is it more likely for him to be deported to Germany ...?

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Mar 20, 2004 4:28 pm)

I can't tell what will happen to him... although being politically incorrect, chances are, he'd be deported... :? Not because he's guilty, but because the thought police will find him guilty. If he's deported to Germany, chances are, he'd spend lots of time in jail... I don't know..

I hope he'd be released... hmm.. but I have my doubts.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it to the rally.. :(

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Postby Sannhet » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:36 pm)

Maybe it is best if he is sent back to Germany to face jailtime. I mean think about it, he would make headlines and thereby expose millions to his work (if they are so inclined to investiagate it), and from his work they would investigate other Revisionist work (simply reading the short Lueftl report is enough to change even the most dogmatic Holocaust-believer's mind, if they have an open-mind in the first place that is). So he might end up helping to sway the people of Europe and especially of Germany away from the yoke of the Holocaust-cult. If people look at his situation and say, "This is ridiculous, he should not be in jail" or "I wonder what he has to say, anyway?" then his incarceration is a victory for Revisionism. I'm sure Zundel wouldn't mind jailtime in Germany if it would help his cause.

Think about Nelson Mandela; he was jailed for many years, but the incarceration did nothing but help his cause by producing headlines, sympathy, and a closer look at the situation in South Africa by the rest of the world.

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Ernst Zündel, a compulsory lever to dismantle Israel?

Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:14 am)

Here you find some more information about why they won't let him go:

http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/persecution/zundel1.htm

The difference is: Nelson Mandela was imprisoned because he was a leading member of a terroristic organisation that had murdered a lot of innocent people. Zündel himself is innocent of any conviction, has a clean criminal record, and has actually caused wrong Canadian criminal law to be changed.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:28 pm)

Sannhet,

I disagree. I don't think a country that is down on its knees because of the "holocaust" TO THIS DAY would actually be awakened that easily! I think a lot of Germans know about Zündel's incarceration now... I don't see people "realizing" that it's wrong per se or even if they do, I don't see them TALKING about it and admitting that it's wrong. Talking about the "holocaust" or about the Nazis or asking QUESTIONS about what happened is strictly a taboo issue in Germany. It's probably the worst crime you can commit in Germany. I was reading something by Norman Finkelstein about this (i.e. political correctness in Germany):

What politically correct Germans really fear, I suspect, is the loss of power and privilege attendant on challenging the uncritical support of all things Jewish. Indeed, their public defense of the indefensible not only breeds cynicism in political life but, far from combating anti-Semitism among Germans, actually engenders it. Isn't this duplicity typically credited to a dread of, or a desire to curry favor with, a presumed all-powerful Jewry? One also can't help but wonder what thoughts run through the heads of politically correct Germans about Jews when the ones they typically consort with, prostrate themselves before in unctuous penance, and publicly laud are known to be the worst sort of hucksters.


I don't necessarily agree with all that Finkelstein says, but I think he's making some good points here. The situation in Germany is not ONLY a result of German political correctness, but a result of international pressure, including world jewry. Consider what generations of Germans have been taught by politically correct curricula and condemnation of the "evil" Nazis who mercilessly slaughtered jews, gypsies and homosexuals. So now they not only feel guilty for what the Nazis allegedly did, but feel that they have an obligation to make up for it. How? By silence... And also consider how HUGE the "holocaust" claims are. It's not just about 20,000 people. It's about 6 million jews allegedly killed. They've been TAUGHT to feel guilty about all this! The guilt won't go away in one month or one year or even 15 years. The whole system should be changed so that they'd have a collective awakening. It's not as easy as seeing Zündel in jail and thinking how wrong it is. Because they don't think it's wrong. And even if they do, they will make sure they wouldn't admit it in PUBLIC.... I know this because I have relatives in Germany. The situation there is the epitome of PC. As long as holocaust revisionism is considered VERY WRONG (and people like Zundel are being jailed for it), there really is not much hope of radical change in Germany.

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Postby Sannhet » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:11 pm)

TruthSeeker wrote:Sannhet,

I disagree. I don't think a country that is down on its knees because of the "holocaust" TO THIS DAY would actually be awakened that easily!

Maybe not, but it is possible, and I don't see any other practical alternatives. Heck, in 1986 no one predicted the USSR would collapse, but one thing led to another and five years later ...

I think a lot of Germans know about Zündel's incarceration now... I don't see people "realizing" that it's wrong per se or even if they do, I don't see them TALKING about it and admitting that it's wrong. Talking about the "holocaust" or about the Nazis or asking QUESTIONS about what happened is strictly a taboo issue in Germany.

You are right about that, but again I refer to the Soviet Union, it was also an intellecutally repressive country (far moreso than Germany in 2004), but all of a sudden things started happening and the floodgates opened. Maybe Zündel will open another set of floodgates; although I can see why you are skeptical about it. But how many experts in the mid 1980s were predicting an immenent collapse of the USSR?

The situation in Germany is not ONLY a result of German political correctness, but a result of international pressure, including world jewry.
Consider what generations of Germans have been taught by politically correct curricula and condemnation of the "evil" Nazis who mercilessly slaughtered jews, gypsies and homosexuals. So now they not only feel guilty for what the Nazis allegedly did, but feel that they have an obligation to make up for it. How? By silence...

Everyone here (I presume) went through similiar schools; but we, for whatever reason, began to doubt the official story (the ever-changing official story). And once a person is willing to approach the Holocaust with an open mind and once they are are open to reading Revisionist material, it is very difficult for him to cling to the old dogma. All that really needs to happen is debate, and maybe Zündel can be the catalyst for debate. It is a long shot, but better a long shot than no shot at all :?

It's not as easy as seeing Zündel in jail and thinking how wrong it is. Because they don't think it's wrong. And even if they do, they will make sure they wouldn't admit it in PUBLIC.... I know this because I have relatives in Germany. The situation there is the epitome of PC. As long as holocaust revisionism is considered VERY WRONG (and people like Zundel are being jailed for it), there really is not much hope of radical change in Germany.

You may be right, but if today were March 21st, 1986 instead of 2004, I would not think in my wildest dreams that the Soviet Union would collapse in a few years. It is impossible to know what will happen. And if Zündel has to be in jail, he might as well be in a German jail as being in a German jail is far more likely to be the catalyst needed to bring about real debate on the Holocaust.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:36 am)

Maybe not, but it is possible, and I don't see any other practical alternatives. Heck, in 1986 no one predicted the USSR would collapse, but one thing led to another and five years later ...

Point taken. I agree that it's possible, but I think it would take more time for something major to take place.

Maybe Zündel will open another set of floodgates; although I can see why you are skeptical about it. But how many experts in the mid 1980s were predicting an immenent collapse of the USSR?

True. I hope so.

Everyone here (I presume) went through similiar schools; but we, for whatever reason, began to doubt the official story (the ever-changing official story). And once a person is willing to approach the Holocaust with an open mind and once they are are open to reading Revisionist material, it is very difficult for him to cling to the old dogma.

Well, I never was "educated" about the holocaust at school. Everything I "knew" about it was from TV or the internet. And then one day, I heard about Zundel, and did a search on him, and found stuff about revisionism. I guess you're right, if people hear about Zundel, they're probably gonna look him up, but again, that's really difficult for someone in Germany, where websites are blocked and search results are filtered. But not impossible, I suppose.

And if Zündel has to be in jail, he might as well be in a German jail as being in a German jail is far more likely to be the catalyst needed to bring about real debate on the Holocaust.

Well, if he's found "guilty" of whatever it is, he'll probably be deported, and most probably he will end up in jail in Germany. But if he's not found guilty, he'd be able to stay in Canada, and further publicize revisionism, no? Unless they put conditions on him... I know that in a lot of cases, people were banned from using the web, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they do something like that to Zundel even if he gets out of jail. They surely won't let him get away without any "punishment."

Bottom line is: It depends on what you think would be more effective. A hypothetical reaction to Zundel's incarceration in Germany, or the possibility of Zundel being able to continue with his work to educate more people about the "holocaust" in Canada. Again, if he's gonna be placed in jail, I'd rather it be in Germany, too. But I think that's a given anyway, unless I'm mistaken. Is he a Canadian citizen? I thought his application was denied by the CIC. Correct me if I'm wrong. Jews are pressurizing the government to deport him to Germany. So chances are, if he loses, he will be deported...

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:21 pm)

They surely won't let him get away without any "punishment."


It should be noted that Zuendel has been held in solitary confinement for over a year without any charges. He has broken no laws.

Canada is called 'Absurdistan' for good reason.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:16 pm)

Yes, I am aware of that. That is why I said that he won't get away with nothing. He's already paid for something he hasn't done...

His confinement is just the epitome of idiocy. It goes to show the level of pressure Jews place so that their claims wouldn't be debunked.

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Possible Showtrial in Germany

Postby neocon » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:57 pm)

If Z is put on a Showtrial here in Germany it could very well be the first time
that i take part in a "Free Zundel Rally". Heck it could be the
first time i take part in any public political thing.

Maybe he could change something in this brainwashed,
re-educated and de-nazificated Country.

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:29 pm)

Quick note. There's been a lot of speculation about Ernst being sent to Germany. That would have been, according to news reports, a 'brain storm' of those that incite his persecution. Over a year ago.

I would say if Germany was willing to take Ernst in it would have happened. Maybe they recognize a hot potato when they see one.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:37 pm)

So if Germany refuses to take him in, and Canada deports him, where would he go? To any country that accepts him? :?:

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Postby Sannhet » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:29 pm)

ClaudiaRothenbach wrote:
Sannhet wrote:Think about Nelson Mandela; he was jailed for many years, but the incarceration did nothing but help his cause by producing headlines, sympathy, and a closer look at the situation in South Africa by the rest of the world.
The difference is: Nelson Mandela was imprisoned because he was a leading member of a terroristic organisation that had murdered a lot of innocent people. Zündel himself is innocent of any conviction, has a clean criminal record, and has actually caused wrong Canadian criminal law to be changed

Whether or not Mandela was a "leading member of a terroristic organisation" is irrelevant, the point is that his imprisonment helped his cause immensely. People looked more closely at the South African situation, and it soon became en vogue to condemn South Africa.

Is this not exactly what Revisionists want? For people to take a closer look and to generate debate? Zündel being treated ridiculously and unfairly by a Kangaroo Court and being sent to a German prison would make headlines across the globe; it would expose his name and his work to millions; and it would almost certainly generate sympathy (to compare, Mandela was treated unfairly and sent to prison, it made headlines from New York to Singapore especially after years went by, it brought the anti-Apartheid struggle to the world's attention, and it certainly generated sympathy). The same formula worked in South Africa, maybe it will work with regard to the Holocaust as well

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:21 am)

Yes but if Zundel wins his case, it will also be a step forward, won't it?

The rally itself is a step forward. If it's reported in newspapers (not in some corner of the page) it will arouse curiosity in readers who were previously aloof to revisionism.

But I do see your point, and your claims might be true, unless something that wasn't calculated for comes up, to our surprise... what if no one reported it? I know this is too far-fetched, but what if he were secretly deported to Germany? :?


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