"Experimental" gassings?

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Hannover
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"Experimental" gassings?

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:45 pm)

One of the participants at this Forum recently said that he was open to the idea that perhaps there were "experimental" gassings of Jews. I openly challenge him or anyone else to provide evidence in support of this.

There is absolutely no evidence of a single homicidal gassing by the Germans, experimental or otherwise, that Revisionists haven't utterly demolished.

Opinions wanted.

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Postby neugierig » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:20 am)

Hannover;
“One of the participants at this Forum recently said that he was open to the idea that perhaps there were "experimental" gassings of Jews. I openly challenge him or anyone else to provide evidence in support of this.[...]”

Yeah, ok, this ’someone’ would be me. :wink:

Here is what I meant by this remark. Lets take Treblinka. The accusation is, that hundreds of thousands of Jews were transported there and killed. The bodies first buried, later exhumed and burned. All this is based on German transportation documents and eyewitness accounts. By applying common sense, I have to ask, why would the Germans destroy all physical evidence and leave the transportation reports. The answer: The transportation reports are only showing who went to this camp, the ones documenting where they were transferred to, are missing/destroyed. Can I prove this? No. Mattogno and Graf addressed this in their book, ‘Treblinka, Durchgangslager oder Vernichtungslager?’ (Treblinka, transfer-or extermination camp) The book was briefly discussed on this forum. Verdict, no satisfactory answers as to where the inmates went. I concur. As for the open air burnings of that many bodies? The wood needed for this would have turned the surrounding area into a desert, camels would be roaming it now. Still, we are not sure where the Jews went. I have heard the argument that they are somewhere. Possibly, for one can only find missing persons that want to be found. But can we prove this? No.

Now to my remark. We know Jews were transported to Treblinka. It is conceivable, nee, plausible, that some of them were sick. Hygiene was not one of the priorities, in many areas, at that time. Therefore, applying common sense again, if some of the Jews had a contagious illness, it is probable that they were done away with, to save the rest of the inmates. How was that done? I don’t know. Was gas one of the options, i.e., did they ’experiment’ with gas? It is possible. Can I prove it? No.
It is in this context I made my remark. We don’t have all the answers, and would do well to leave some room for ’reasonable doubt’, IMHO.

This is all I want to say, re. this subject. I am not interested in a ’is too-is not’, for I know too little.

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Wilf
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:49 am)

The point is evidence, not 'is too, is not'. Without evidence of gassings there were no gassings.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:05 am)

Therefore, applying common sense again, if some of the Jews had a contagious illness, it is probable that they were done away with, to save the rest of the inmates.

"Probably" doesn't mean it happened. Probably doesn't mean ANYTHING in a proof. It is merely a guess. Whether it's based on common logic or not is irrelevant. If something could be "proven" by "common sense", then we wouldn't need any evidence to convict accused criminals... Again, you can't use the "guilty until proven innocent" fallacy - because, well, it's a fallacy. :D

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Postby Sannhet » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:55 pm)

I mentioned the Lueftl report in another post I just posted and I am reminded of it here. Allow me to post an excerpt from Part 8 of the Lueftl Report:

Mass murder in the manner described, with Zyklon B and with carbon monoxide, cannot have taken place, either, because it too would violate the laws of nature, and because the necessary technical and organizational prerequisites were lacking.

Experimental killings with Zyklon B may have taken place. After fifty years, this cannot be ruled out with certainty. But such experiments would have resulted in deaths among the executioners, and the recognition that something like the [supposed] Mauthausen shooting installation would be more logical and safer.

A similar recognition would have come very quickly in any experiment using diesel exhaust gases ("get rid of that diesel and get us a spark-ignition engine"), if there had ever been any "gas chambers with diesel engines" or "gas vans" ("generator gas" from "wood gas" trucks would have been more logical). The Nazis may have been criminals, but they certainly were not stupid enough to use diesel motors and Zyklon B in the manner described.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:13 pm)

If there were any experimental executional gassings done by the Nazis, they would probably have used the new developed combat gases (like Sarin) on people who were condemmed to death already, like convicted murderers. This would probably be done under controlled conditions, with all kinds of military and medical and chemical personnel and toxiologists present.

The use of hydro-cyanide (HCN) from Zyklon-B for homicidal gassing could certainly work, but it has to be considered, that the poisonous HCN gas discharges from the Zyklon-B carrier relatively slow and over time and it could in fact take hours for the complete discharge and before even the exhaust ventilation could be started.

I don't believe in experimental homicidal gassings with diesel exhaust fumes. Diesel exhaust fumes are not that poisonous.

fge

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Postby neugierig » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:43 pm)

Sailor:
“I don't believe in experimental homicidal gassings with diesel exhaust fumes. Diesel exhaust fumes are not that poisonous.”

Hi All,
Please read my post. :evil: Nowhere did I specify what type of gas could have been used. Sailor, Diesel is out, takes way too long and as you mentioned, other, more effective products were available.

All I said is, that it is ’possible’, given the circumstances, that gas could have been an option when extreme measures had to be taken. And I stand by that. We don’t know what happened, a war was on, and unpleasant tasks had to be carried out.
So, before you guys dump on me, read my post! I don’t believe in gas-chambers, but things happen. And all I am applying is common sense, anybody heard of it? :roll:

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Wilf
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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:02 pm)

I was not referring to your post, Wilf. Really not.

But rather to the question: Were there experimental homicidal gassings. It was an awful war and shit happens. Lets face it.

fge

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:10 pm)

According to Wilf it was possible that the Germans arrested and executed Big Foots (plural = Big Feet? :lol: ). There is no more evidence for that than there is 'experimental' gassings or any other homicidal gassings.

- Hannover
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Postby neugierig » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:35 pm)

Hi Sailor!
I didn't think you were and understand what you mean, peace.

And Hannover, it's 'Big Footse's'. :roll: Hopeless.

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Wilf
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:57 pm)

Hey Wilf, it's also "possible" that the Americans had gas chambers for the Japanese-Americans they held in 'death camps' in the US.

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:47 pm)

All I said is, that it is ’possible’, given the circumstances, that gas could have been an option when extreme measures had to be taken. And I stand by that. We don’t know what happened, a war was on, and unpleasant tasks had to be carried out. :lol: He's right.A war was on,so anything like steam killings,electric conveyor belts,naked women jumping over 6 foot fences and wrestling firearms from soilders and killing them all,20,000 being gassed a day,soap,handbags,men from mars and UFO's(whom quite possibly might have abducted the inmates upon the request of the Germans for scientific research);any of these things are possible during time of war.Take note of experts such as Steven Spielberg,who makes "documented"films about ufo's,aliens and the holocaust.

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:18 pm)

Let's everyone get a grip here, we're getting a bit testy.

Back to the point; if anyone thinks there may have been experimental gassings, fine. But if you are challenged for evidence, there's no need to get defensive, either provide it or move on.

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Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.


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