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TruthSeeker
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Romanian Jews

Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:07 pm)

<My apologies if a similar topic has been posted, I tried the search feature but didn't come up with anything specific to the "holocaust" in Romania - feel free to merge topics if it's repetitive :D >

I was talking with my grandfather last night, and he was telling me about his younger days. He was in Romania until the end of WWII. He said he used to work for a Jew (throughout the war). He also said his father had a shop, and German (Nazi) soldiers used to come and buy things from them, and they were very well-dressed and nice.

He also said that Jews at the time (and I think they still do it) had something (square shaped?) on their door, and I believe that inside it is a small "bottle" that has the 10 commandments or something. I've never seen it myself, but he's pretty sure it's something specific to Jews. I asked him if he remembers any Jews being taken away or anything of the sort (after all, it would've been easier to find the Jews if they put those things on their doors, right?), he says no, none. He says they had a lot of shops and were in very good positions...

Contrast that with:

There followed a period of anti-Semitic terrorism that lasted for five months. It began with the confiscation of Jewish-owned shops, together with the posting of signs marked "Jewish shop" and picketing by the green-shirted "legionary police." The reign of terror reached its height when Jewish industrial and commercial enterprises were handed over to the members of the "Legion" under pressure from the Iron Guard. The owners of the enterprises were arrested and tortured by the "legionary police" until they agreed to sign certificates of transfer. Bands of "legionnaires" entered Jewish homes and "confiscated" any sums of money they found.


and

The prohibition against Jews working in certain professions and the "Romanization of the economy" continued and caused the worsening of the economic situation of the Jewish population.


How many jews in Bucharest were allegedly killed or deported? Because my grandfather (who was 20 at the time) said he didn't see anything of the sort. They also had relatives throughout the country, and he says none reported any such "unrest" (killings). :?

And from the Simon "we forge photos" Wiesenthal Center:
Image
Date: Jan. 23, 1941

"Fascist legionnaires-members of the Iron Guard-attacked Jews in Bucharest, during an attempted coup. They forced 127 Jews into trucks, drove them to the outskirts of the city and murdered them."
http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/gallery/pg2 ... 20801.html

Image
"After WWII, Jewish emissaries from Palestine came to Europe to help organize Jewish survivors and arrange their immigration to Palestine. Seen here are members of Ha-Shomer ha-Za'ir, who later settled in various kibbutzim in Palestine."
http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/gallery/pg3 ... 38034.html

Can you see them grinning? For survivors of the "holocaust," they seem to be pretty happy...

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:04 pm)

How right you are:
And from the Simon "we forge photos" Wiesenthal Center

That photo is just an example of the slime ball tactics of the Wiesenthal Center. Put a caption on any picture of corpses and you have 'proof' of the so called 'holocau$t'. For all we know that photo could be victims of Allied terror bombings or mass shootings & rapes by the Communists.

I believe it was the Romanian president or primeminister who recently stated that the so called 'holocau$t' did not occur in Romania [nor anywhere else as alleged - H.]. I'll search for that statement.

It's just more of the 'big lie' technique, which is classic judeo-supremacism at work. Make your claims loud enough, long enough and people will believe them. Especially when people can get arrested for questioning them.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:22 pm)

After an international outcry in reaction to a Romanian Government statement on June 13, 2003 claiming that “within the borders of Romania between 1940 and 1945 there was no Holocaust,” the Government of Romania acknowledged that the country’s former leaders participated in the Holocaust during World War II by deporting and exterminating Romanian Jews. The Government issued a statement on June 17, 2003 that Romania “was guilty of grave war crimes, pogroms, and mass deportation of Romanian Jews to territories occupied or controlled by the Romanian army” during World War II and that the pro-Nazi Romanian regime employed “methods of discrimination and extermination, which are part of the Holocaust.”

The Romanian Government assured ADL that the statement was formally denounced and retracted by the government. In a letter from Mircea Geoana, the Romanian Minister of Foreign Affairs, the government called the incident “regrettable.”

“I personally pledge for my Government’s interest and determination to facilitate the historic study and research of the persecutions to which the Jewish citizens have been subjected in Romania during 1940 – 1944 and to assume responsibility over these actions of ethnic intolerance,” Mr. Geoana said in the June 17 letter. “Furthermore it is our desire to foster cooperation with the international institutions and organizations interested in this issue and with which we have always had an open dialogue.”

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/4270_52.htm


4 days is all it took to turn the statement 180 degrees 'round. :roll:

President Ion Iliescu (a one-time Ceaucescu intimate) declared: “The Holocaust was not unique to the Jewish population in Europe. Many others, including Poles, died in the same way… Jews and Communists were treated equally… However it is impossible to accuse the Romanian people and the Romanian society of this [massacre of Jews].”


Two weeks later, and despite the fact that the interview was conducted by a Romanian-speaking Israeli journalist (Grig Davidovitch) and tape recorded, Iliescu denied having ever said what he did and accused Ha'aretz of misquoting him and distorting his words.


And the journalist having been an Israeli means that he's "honest" about what he was claiming that Iliescu said? Notice the use of the word "despite"!!! :shock:

And some more (hilarious) comments not specific to Romanian Jews:

While one may argue that the Romanian statements are not equivalent to Holocaust denial in its most extreme (i.e. outright denial), in some sense it is far more pernicious. Denying the existence of gas chambers in Auschwitz is today not unlike suggesting that the earth is flat or that man never really landed on the moon.


But there is overwhelming evidence that Romanian soldiers and gendarmes murdered at least 270,000 Jews between the years 1941 and 1944.

Such as? Touched up (or taken out of context) pictures from Simon "we forge photos" Wiesenthal Center?

http://www.wjc.org.il/antiwatch/antisem ... mania.html

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:31 pm)

Utter rubbish and intimidation by the judeo-supremacists, just because they say so doesn't make it so. They make enormous amounts of money, acquire vast political powers, and gain preferrential treatment from the lies. They must try to keep it going at all costs...'once you lie, you must continue to lie' ... is a saying that's appropriate to them.

There is not one single mass grave or any commensurate physical evidence to support the allegations of such in Romania, or anywhere else.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:03 pm)

Indeed. This is hilarious:

In addition to the letters of apology and the clarifications that Iliescu and his prime minister made to their Israeli counterparts, several concrete decisions were taken. A committee of international historians is to be established, to fully investigate Romania's role in the Holocaust; Romania will declare a national day of remembrance for victims of the Holocaust; and Romanian Education Minister Alexandru Athanasiu will visit Israel in October to examine Holocaust study programs for his country's schools.

More brainwashing! Let's brainwash Romanian kids, and make them feel guilty too!!!

So keen was Athanasiu to undertake his mission that he asked to visit here during the course of this week, but he was firmly told by Jerusalem that Israel objects to "a process of crisis management combined with elements of public relations ... It will take some time before the lessons of this incident will be fully learned. The time is not yet right for the slate to be wiped clean." Experts and senior Foreign Ministry officials in Jerusalem view this educational effort as a fitting response to the Romanian president's "sins."

Notice how THEY (jews) are dictating the entire world how they will think and act... What the hell...

The first sin: Relativizing the Holocaust

Iliescu's comments to Haaretz (which he later revised), claiming that "the Holocaust was not unique to the Jewish population of Europe," have been described by Israel as "a form of Holocaust denial." A similar response could be found in the mass-circulation Romanian newspaper Evenimentul Zilei, which wrote that "when he mixed the Jews' martyrdom with the persecution of Communists, Polish people or Gypsies, Iliescu embraced - deliberately or not - part of the revisionist theory." Even if the president's comments were not intended to deny the Holocaust, banalizing the Holocaust is also a grave sin.

Ha, and LYING is not a sin?!?! Who defines what is sin anyway? I hope not the Simon Wiesenthal Center?

The second sin: Rewriting history

Iliescu seeks to clear the name of Romania's wartime leader. He claims that "[Marshal Ion] Antonescu no longer supported the Final Solution. On the contrary, he took steps to protect the Jews." But it is now known that the Marshall, who insisted on using a derogatory term whenever referring to Jews, was in no need of help from Hitler. In 1941 he was already working on a plan for the elimination of Romanian Jewry. His regime was directly responsible for the murder of 420,000 Jews. If not for the Germans' defeat at Stalingrad, he would have forged ahead with his plan for genocide.

In attempting to disconnect the Romanian people from all responsibility for "phenomena related to the Holocaust," Iliescu also sins against the historic truth. Documents that have recently been uncovered paint a very gloomy picture of the Romanians' behavior throughout the Holocaust. Romanian society, with very few exceptions, saw Antonescu as a legitimate ruler and cooperated with him. In contrast to the situation in most occupied European countries, there was no Romanian underground. No one rose up against Antonescu or against the expulsion and murder of the Jews.

The second sin: Rewriting history - indeed, and to WHOM does that EXACTLY apply? Surely not the Jews? Again, the tactic of making all non-Jews feel "guilty" about their role in the "holocaust" is at work here.

The third sin: The property issue

The property that was expropriated in Romania after the war is valued at $5.3 billion - one tenth of Romania's gross domestic product. Iliescu cannot compensate only the Jews, without angering his public. With that, his comments raise suspicions that he sees Jewish "preoccupation" with the Holocaust as a cover for avarice. In addition, Iliescu never states that he himself appears on the long list of the country's former Communist rulers who acquired the nationalized property at exceedingly low prices in the 1990s.

The third sin: avarice. At least have some respect to your "alleged" dead and stop wanting money and more money. All your acting skills collapse when it comes to money.

The fourth sin: The motives behind the interview

According to one interpretation, Iliescu, who ends his term of office in 2004, is hoping to be named chairman of the Senate. For this, he will need the vote of the extreme nationalist Romania Mare (Great Romania) party. Thus, throughout the interview, Iliescu was sending out a message to supporters of that party, the second largest in Parliament.

Historian Dr. Rafael Vago of Tel Aviv University says that the interview to an Israeli newspaper was perhaps intended to prove to the nationalists that their president is determined not to allow outside interference - Western or Jewish - in Romania's internal affairs.

Either way, the "blunders" in the interview are too frequent to be viewed as mere slip-ups. The fact is that they came just weeks after the government in Bucharest announced that the Holocaust did not happen on Romanian soil. The president's comments are fuel on the revisionist bonfire, joining his reprehensible comments made in a Bucharest synagogue in January 2001, where he attacked the "artificial inflation" of the number of Holocaust victims.

Too many people in Romania share Iliescu's views. Just as for years the Austrians built themselves an image of "Nazism's first victim," so the Romanians have nurtured for themselves the myth of "the European country where the Holocaust did not happen." One can only hope that the snowball set in motion by Iliescu's interview will help them to deal with the darker periods of their history and to shatter the walls enclosing their erased memory of history.

Haaretz: "Romanians have nurtured for themselves the myth of "the European country where the Holocaust did not happen."

Me: "Jews have nurtured for themselves the myth of 'God's chosen people', who have been slaughtered by the Nazis and whose slaughter has gone unnoticed in many countries (read: not enough reparation payments), and whose suffering through years of persecution will be paid for when they crush the revisionists with their thought police."

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages ... ntrassID=1

---

Romania to teach on holocaust
17/09/2003 16:58 - (SA)

Romania - Romania's culture minister urged his country on Wednesday to fully acknowledge its role in killing thousands of Jews during the Holocaust, an apparent attempt to heal relations with Israel.

"Romania participated in the Holocaust, and we have to face history," the minister, Razvan Teodorescu, said at a ceremony marking the inauguration of a teaching manual on the Holocaust.

Romania's traditionally good ties to Israel were strained in June after the government claimed there was no Holocaust inside Romania's borders. Romania was a German ally during most of World War II.

Israel and Romania's Jewish community protested, and the government eventually acknowledged that Romania's wartime leaders deported and killed Jews.

But tensions resurfaced in July when Romanian President Ion Iliescu was quoted by an Israeli paper as saying, "the Holocaust was not unique to the Jewish population in Europe. Many others, including Poles, died in the same way."

After Israel protested those remarks, Iliescu pledged to support Holocaust education in Romania and set up a memorial day to commemorate Holocaust victims. The new teaching manual comes as part of that effort.

"The barbarism of the Holocaust was unique in history and should not be repeated," Teodorescu said at the ceremony, which was attended by US and Israeli diplomats as well as several representatives from the Jewish community.

The book, called "Teaching the Holocaust in the 21st Century," was written by a French author and translated into Romanian.

During communist times, schoolbooks taught that Germans were the sole perpetrators of the Holocaust, ignoring the involvement of Romania's wartime leaders.

Since the fall of communism in 1989, schools have only slowly begun to address the issue of Romanian involvement in the atrocities.

Romania was home to 760 000 Jews before World War II. An estimated 420 000 were killed during the war. More than 20 000 Romanian Gypsies also died after being deported to camps.

Today, about 6 000 Jews live in Romania.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News ... 87,00.html


So how much do you think Teodorescu got paid? :D

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:40 pm)

Documents that have recently been uncovered paint a very gloomy picture of the Romanians' behavior throughout the Holocaust..

Notice how these 'documents' are only claimed but never shown, typical of those with something to hide.
While one may argue that the Romanian statements are not equivalent to Holocaust denial in its most extreme (i.e. outright denial), in some sense it is far more pernicious. Denying the existence of gas chambers in Auschwitz is today not unlike suggesting that the earth is flat or that man never really landed on the moon.

It is the judeo-supremacists who advocate positions which defy science and are unsupportable by evidence. The gas chambers are childs play to debunk...and they know it.
But there is overwhelming evidence that Romanian soldiers and gendarmes murdered at least 270,000 Jews between the years 1941 and 1944.

Oh really? What evidence? They have none and can't show any. Just saying there's evidence doesn't make it so.
Romania was home to 760 000 Jews before World War II. An estimated 420 000 were killed during the war. More than 20 000 Romanian Gypsies also died after being deported to camps.

Yawn...no evidence for their laughable 420,000 or the pathetic gypsy canard.

summary & open challenge:
All self-serving propaganda, religious superstition, wishful thinking, and no evidence. Anyone reading this is more than welcomed to debate Revisionists here. They can't, they won't; they know informed Revisionists can refute their lies.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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