Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justified?

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LYZ
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Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justified?

Postby LYZ » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:58 am)

Hi Codoh!

I've been a lurker for a while, and I decided to make my own revisionism website to spread the truth and expose the lies.

However, I thought I'll check out the local laws, just in case (I really thought i would be ok though), and when I saw this, my heart sank:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inciting_racial_hatred

> This offence refers to:

> deliberately provoking hatred of a racial group

> distributing racist material to the public

> making inflammatory public speeches

> **creating racist websites on the Internet**

> inciting inflammatory rumours about an individual or an ethnic group, for the purpose of spreading racial discontent.

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby EtienneSC » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:22 am)

There already is a British revisionist site:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/
They might be able to advise you on any local laws and their implications.

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby hermod » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:26 am)

Hi Lyz. And welcome on codoh.

IMO, You're right to be scared, at least for the future. Nothing easier than calling Holocaust revisionism "hate speech". Perhaps Britain will also pass a law against "Holocaust denial" in a near future. That wouldn't surprise me at all.

In 2003, when Roger Garaudy attacked the Gayssot Act before the European Court of Human Rights, he was responded that there is nothing wrong with the Gayssot Act and that Holocaust revisionism is "one of the most severe forms of racial defamation and of incitement to hatred of Jews" (http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=66029#p66051).
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby Hannover » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:30 am)

Indeed, as Etienne mentioned, http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/ is a good example. But more sites are always welcomed. Keep it on point and stress factual, verifiable information; with perhaps a link to this forum and others that will help your readers.

As for British laws, IMO the powers that be seem a bit fluid in their interpretation of what is supposedly "racist", "incitement", & "hateful".

I'm not sure how tightly bound Britain is to the mentioned "European Court of Human Rights".

We have a number of Brits here who I'm sure will be helpful.

Thanks and welcome.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby Dresden » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:46 pm)

The European Court of Human Rights said:

"Holocaust revisionism is "one of the most severe forms of racial defamation and of incitement to hatred of Jews""

But when they prosecute a Thought Criminal, they never produce these phantom "haters" as witnesses against the accused.

When it is claimed of a food product that it causes headaches and diarrhea, witnesses are brought forth with doctors' reports; laboratory analyses are produced, identifying the harmful ingredients; but when it is claimed of certain writings or speech that it "causes hatred of Jews", witnesses are never produced who can say, after being questioned with polygraph, and examined by a Psychiatrist:

"I have loved Jews all my life.....I dare say I used to worship them; most of my friends were Jewish, and I believed them to be G-d's chosen people; but after reading that Revisionist article, now I hate Jews and want to see them all exterminated; I have severed all ties to my former Jewish "friends", deleted their email addresses and phone numbers and seek only to harm them.....Heil Hitler!"

Where are these erstwhile Philo-semites turned Anti-semites?
Why are they never produced in a court of law?
Why has no defense lawyer, to my knowledge, ever asked the prosecution to produce witnesses to prove their case?
Are all defense lawyers cowards, corrupt, blackmailed, bribed, or threatened?.....or STUPID?

Just askin'.
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:15 pm)

LYZ wrote:Hi Codoh!

I've been a lurker for a while, and I decided to make my own revisionism website to spread the truth and expose the lies.

However, I thought I'll check out the local laws, just in case (I really thought i would be ok though), and when I saw this, my heart sank:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inciting_racial_hatred

> This offence refers to:

> deliberately provoking hatred of a racial group

> distributing racist material to the public

> making inflammatory public speeches

> **creating racist websites on the Internet**

> inciting inflammatory rumours about an individual or an ethnic group, for the purpose of spreading racial discontent.
i am one of the people behind the website whatreallyhappened.info. Two of us operate in our own names but the rest of us maintain our anonymity. if you were starting out strongly recommend you do the same. You can always change your mind later if you want to. the reverse is rather more difficult!

There are (as yet) no holocaust denial laws in Britain and the two main people we have to thank for this are both Jews: Leon Brittan and Michael Howard. However, two people known as the Heretical Two received long prison sentences under the race hatred laws for posting a cartoon on a website. The cartoon included some satirical stuff like showing Jews driving through the Red Sea in Cadillacs but in my view could not reasonably be said to be preaching hatred, but it is not my view that matters. I believe they did push copies of the cartoon under the door of a synagogue. They also had a website with what are generally considered far right views on race gender etc.

The poster BlackrabbitofInle is also British. Perhaps he will see this and will post to this thread, but if he doesn't you could PM him.

As long as you stick to the topic and to factual issues I don't think you have anything to worry about from the legal side (Nick Kollerstrom has just published a Revisionist book and Paul Eisen has published Revisionist views under his own name on his blog) but personal, professional and social risk is another matter.

Get in touch with us via the Contact tab on whatreallyhappened.info.

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby LYZ » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:05 pm)

Hey, thanks everyone!

I think I will see a professional about this and see what they say, just to be on the safe side.

Nevertheless, i'm optimistic and I will remain objective and factual, as everyone suggested.
Last edited by LYZ on Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby LYZ » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:20 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:Get in touch with us via the Contact tab on whatreallyhappened.info.


I will be happy to. Thank you for the information you provided.

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby Dresden » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:41 pm)

Kingfisher said:

"As long as you stick to the topic and to factual issues I don't think you have anything to worry about from the legal side"

I strongly disagree with that.
The more factual you are, the more you speak truth.....the more anti-"semitic" you are, and the more they will come after you.

Paul Eisen says:

http://pauleisen.blogspot.com/2014/01/i ... mitic.html

Is Holocaust denial anti-Semitic?

For me, the big question arising from this 2011 piece below by Deborah Lipstadt in The Tablet is: Is Holocaust denial anti-Semitic?
http://tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-po ... -and-error

Well, the standard response is for everyone to fall over themselves and each other, first to deny they are deniers and secondly to deny that their questioning of the Holocaust narrative is in any way anti-Semitic.

I don't agree.

Firstly, why is everyone so scared to 'deny' the Holocaust. Yes, I know that the term - one of abuse, rather like the term 'witch!' hurled at everyone 'the Jews' (I use the term to mean those Jewish leaders who make our lives such a misery) want to silence - implies that the 'denier' thinks nothing bad ever happened to Jews. No Holocaust revisionist thinks that and I'm beginning to wonder why the likes of Deborah Lipstadt can't see that.

But anyway, is not the only way to deal with bullies to stand up to them? And isn't the best way to stand up to them to say "I'm not afraid of you or of your definitions, so I accept the name!" It's what Mahatma Gandhi did at his trial 1922. It's what Adolf Hitler did at his trial 1924. It's what Nelson Mandela did at his trial in 1964

And has not the Holocaust narrative gone way, way beyond any possible kind of history? Is it not, rather than history now theology - and a false and abusive theology at that?

And what are you supposed to do a with foul and abusive dogma? Why, deny it of course! Those brave revisionists have done their work and God bless them for it, but now is the time for us all to deny the Holocaust.

So we're deniers but are we also anti-Semites? I say we are and for three reasons:

1. It seems to me that anyone with the vision and determination to question and revise such a dogma - and at such cost - must be someone who refuses to bow to an illegitimate authority. Surely such a person must refuse to bow to 'the Jews'.

2. The way Holocaust revisionists have been treated by 'the Jews' - the slurs, the assaults, the fines, the incarcerations - surely this must have rendered them hostile to this abusive power and therefore, according to my definition, anti-Semitic.

3. The Holocaust is such a primary arm of abusive Jewish power that to oppose it is, by the same definition, anti-Semitic.

And here a note: I've had the opportunity and the privilege to get to know a number of revisionists. In all of them I've seen an intelligent, peaceful and often compassionate anti-Semitism but never, not once, have I ever detected (Yes it's true, we Jews can smell it) any trace of Jew-hatred (For definition, see here.)

So, according to my, I think truthful, definition of anti-Semitism as being a legitimate opposition to a now abusive 'Jewishness', Holocaust denial is indeed fully and wonderfully anti-Semitic.

=========================================================
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:50 pm)

I don't see any contradiction between
"As long as you stick to the topic and to factual issues I don't think you have anything to worry about from the legal side"

and what Paul wrote.

Paul, writing on a different topic, makes a clear distinction, which he alludes to briefly here, between Jew-hatred, which he call stupid and despicable (or words to that effect) and antisemitism, which he defines as opposition to 'abusive Jewish power'. I count Paul a friend and though we do not meet frequently I am one of those 'Intelligent, peaceful and often compassionate' individuals he refers to. I agree with Paul's analysis but unfortunately antisemitism has become a very dangerous weasel term conflating both these concepts and thereby delegitimising all criticism. However this has nothing to do with what you quoted from my post.

We can certainly discuss it in another context, but here I am concerned with helping LYZ with practical discussion about the risks involved in the United Kingdom

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby Dresden » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:29 pm)

Kingfisher said:

"I don't see any contradiction between

"As long as you stick to the topic and to factual issues I don't think you have anything to worry about from the legal side"

and what Paul wrote"


I see a contradiction in the two; and this explains it:

"The more factual you are, the more you speak truth.....the more anti-"semitic" you are, and the more they will come after you"

The simple reason for that is: Truth is anti-"semitic", and truth is "hate-speech".
-----------------------------------------------

"I am concerned with helping LYZ with practical discussion about the risks involved in the United Kingdom"


So am I, that's why I want him to know that your statement:

"As long as you stick to the topic and to factual issues I don't think you have anything to worry about from the legal side"


.....depends on what "topic" he sticks to and what "factual issues" he discusses.

How much he is persecuted will be directly proportional to the amount of truth he speaks on his website, and especially the nature of the truth he speaks.

What "topic" are you referring to when you advise LYZ to "stick to the topic"?

What "factual issues" are you referring to that would leave him invulnerable to prosecution?

Have you looked at his website and noticed the "topics" he will be covering?

I would appreciate it very much if you would tell me what "topic" and "issues" you are talking about; it would make a huge difference in our discussion here.

Thank you! :D
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby LYZ » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:49 pm)

I may have an opportunity that will allow me to evade this, because I don't fancy just taking my chances when it comes to potentially spending years in prison, especially as I just left school 2 years ago.

I set up a business with a friend last year in Hong Kong, which has inherited the same relaxed laws on freedom of speech from the British, yet doesn't seem to be affected by their 'incitement to racial hatred laws' (these only extend to England and Wales), and obviously shouldn't be affected by the EU human rights laws. Once I have the opportunity, I think it'll be a good idea to travel there and work on my website there, where I should be free to write whatever I wish (within reason).

Would this allow me to evade these vague laws? I assume all I have to do is change the address I registered my domain with to the new HK address, but it won't surprise me if there's more to it than that.

Thanks everyone.

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 9 months ago (Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:15 am)

LYZ wrote:I may have an opportunity that will allow me to evade this, because I don't fancy just taking my chances when it comes to potentially spending years in prison, especially as I just left school 2 years ago.

I set up a business with a friend last year in Hong Kong, which has inherited the same relaxed laws on freedom of speech from the British, yet doesn't seem to be affected by their 'incitement to racial hatred laws' (these only extend to England and Wales), and obviously shouldn't be affected by the EU human rights laws. Once I have the opportunity, I think it'll be a good idea to travel there and work on my website there, where I should be free to write whatever I wish (within reason).

Would this allow me to evade these vague laws? I assume all I have to do is change the address I registered my domain with to the new HK address, but it won't surprise me if there's more to it than that.
Thanks everyone.


I wouldn't have thought that free speech was all that alive and well in HK these days, but I doubt if HD is very high in their priorities. ☺

Don't rely on geographical location of the website or the domain for protection. The Heretical Two used an American web site and fled to the US where they asked for political asylum. This was refused they were deported back to the UK.

Nevertheless, you are in no legal danger for revisionist writing here. The H2 case was aggravated by the satirical cartoon, which incidentally was not theirs. It was produced by Michael Hoffman in 1989 and is perfectly legal in America.

I think that in Britain your concerns are more social and professional than legal, based on the experiences of our group, though you have to consider possible restrictions on your movements to Continental Europe.

Again I advise anonymity, especially given your age. Then if you stick to factual historical matters you should have no trouble. I happen to think this is the best approach for other reasons too.

What I have written is my opinion. I am not a lawyer.

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby borjastick » 5 years 9 months ago (Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:38 am)

LYZ as has been mentioned earlier there are at present no holocaust denial laws in Britain. But that may not last much longer in my opinion.

The possibility exists because of several direct and indirect reasons and factors.

The first is the rise and rise of the zionist holocaust promoters, who knowing one of their key assets, the survivors, is going to be no longer quite soon have moved their attention and activity elsewhere. By that I mean that they have in recent months pushed hard that anti semitic attacks are on the rise coupled with spurious research that shows many people around the world neither know of nor care about their suffering in the holocaust.

These facts have allowed them to pressurise european governments into creating a hybrid category by combining hate speech laws and anti-semitism into one catch all group. They seem to have instantly forgotten 'Je Suis Charlie' and the freedom of expression etc. It is imperative to Israel, the holocaust and the zionist ideals that they can control anything that they don't like. Just look at the despicable antics of Netanyahu in last week's election.

As Hannover often says, anti semitism used to mean anyone who dislikes Jews, now it means anything the jews don't like. Be certain holocaust revisionism or denial is exactly what they don't like due to it being the final nail in the coffin of modern day judaism and ramping up hatred towards the jews. By which I mean that if the critical mass and mass media were convinced the holocaust is a lie the jews would suffer massively and their religion would be in tatters. Israel would be in a difficult place.

As for me I don't dislike jews but I do dislike Israel and the hate mongers who live there. Having said that I would be happy for Israel to be a happy and prosperous place for jews to live, as long as they behave and build a wall around the rest of it. It is also the best place for the loons who seem to infest the jewish faith in some part.

As for the question about the facts what facts? Keep emotion out of the equation. You may or may not like jews, it matters not if you stick to the main facts and questions that revisionism raises.

The claims of six million and gas chambers and intention to kill all jews in the holocaust have been demolished. The work now to do is communicate that to the world, and it has never been easier, due to the internet. That's why the jews are trying to group together hate speech, child porn, internet hate and antisemitism all into one neat little package that can be expunged from the internet.

Watch this space and watch your back.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Am British, Worried about Holocaust Denial Laws- Justifi

Postby Jurgen » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:41 am)

If you are concerned about keeping your identity concealed, which I would be, you can always use such services as www.fakenamegenerator.com/
"The Holocaust narrative actually breaks down on a discrete, factual level, and is only tenable when it is presented as some vague or nebulous larger than life metahistorical event" Mulegino1


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