Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Mathis

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Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Mathis

Postby Moderator » 4 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:24 am)

I thought this deserved a separate thread.

This post by Thames Darwin, aka: Andrew Mathis, is a result of Hannover's challenge to him to 'show us actual verifiable excavations, show us actual verifiable mass human remains of Jews'.
BTW, Thames Darwin has openly stated that he is Andrew Mathis.
M1.

Thames Darwin wrote:
Hannover wrote:


* Absolutely no mass graves have been shown to support the 'Jaeger Report'.

Patently untrue. You can see several photos of mass graves at the below link, many of which are in Lithuania, where Jäger operated. Now, whether they'll satisfy you is another matter:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... odies.html
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Ma

Postby Inquisitor » 4 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:39 am)

Image

This "photo" from the link is particularly convincing.


-------

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Re: Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Ma

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 4 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:04 am)

2.76 A woman and child, survivors of Birkenau, stand among the bodies of inmates on the day of the camp's liberation.

Image


In the actual film footage of this staged scene, watch for the left arm of the atrocity-propagandist shoving the child out of the barrack:

Image

2.76 A woman and child, survivors of Birkenau, stand among the bodies of inmates on the day of the camp's liberation.


Patently untrue because:

1. Snow blanketed Birkenau on January 27, 1945
2. The only footage that was supposed to have been captured on January 27, was shot by the Polish soldier Henryk Makarewicz and all that apparently remains of it are stills:
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=62028#p62028

and...

Auschwitz survivor Paula Lebovics discusses how the Soviets shot their propaganda footage sometime after they liberated the camps. She states that it was the Soviets who dressed the children in the striped prisoner jackets, and that they had never worn them prior to that. She also mentions how the Soviets collected the corpses of inmates who had died after the Germans had left and positioned them as props for their propaganda film.

Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Ma

Postby Hannover » 4 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:08 am)

This "photo" from the link is particularly convincing.

Actually, not a bad painting. :lol:

According the the standard storyline the alleged human remains in the eastern areas were all exhumed and burned, but now they're telling us 'no, here they are'. More contradictions within a narrative that is impossible.

Thames Dawin says:
Now, whether they'll satisfy you is another matter

No, it's a question of whether they would satisfy any rationally minded, unbiased individual. I mean look at these absurd, silly images.

- Who took / made these "photos"?
- Where are the negatives?
- No proof that most of these were taken during WWII
- No proof that these are victims of the Germans.
- No proof that they are Jews.
- No proof that they are not the victims of communist USSR, NKVD actions, there were countless such mass murders, today real excavations of communist atrocities have popped up all over eastern Europe
- No excavation data & methodology given, nor neutral witnesses for verificaton
- We see no blood on any of the alleged victims
- The numbers shown do not conform to the vast numbers alleged.

Now this is what a real excavation looks like:
Katyn excavations: 'Amtliches Material zum Massenmord von Katyn'
http://codoh.com/library/document/999/
and:
http://codoh.com/media/files/documents/ ... atyn_v.pdf
also see:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=758

Whey aren't excavations of alleged human remains of the alleged "death camps" shown?
They say they know exactly where they are.
quick examples:
- 900,000 allegedly buried at Treblinka
- alleged huge ash pit at Auschwitz, why not excavate and show it?

The Los Angeles coliseum holds 90,000, just imagine Treblinka, 10 X that number. but no actual excavation & remains of Jews can actually be shown.

Image

The alleged responsible party for these alleged 'mass shootings' on the WWII eastern front were supposedly the German Einsatzgruppen, who are alleged to have murdered ca. 2,000,000 Jews, that's two MILLION
So, is that:
100 graves of 20,000?
200 graves of 10,000?
400 graves of 5,000?
500 graves of 4,000?
1000 graves of 2000?
2000 graves of 1000?

This topic has come up before at this forum; from previous threads, may be some overlap of content below.
Hannover wrote:I assume those staged photos originated from the same or similar shysters who produced the ones below.

There are tons of faked and altered photos posted at this forum. Here's a classic:
see:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1060
from the Wiesenthal Center:
Image
but in reality:
Image

And these are real gems:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5810&p=41022

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5454&p=35833

and not to be missed:
Do "Documentary" Photographs Prove the
National Socialist Extermination of the Jews?
by UDO WALENDY

https://codoh.com/library/document/924/?lang=en

If you use our search function for 'fake photos', you will get quite a few.

You must always ask for a verifiable source, which you won't get of course.

Only liars use faked photos.

- Hannover

Hannover wrote:The image is famous perhaps, but more phoney than a $3 bill.

I think it's funny that someone added the numbers below your image in an attempt to make it look 'official'.

I quote Udo Walendy, from 'Do Photographs Prove the NS Extermination of the Jews?:
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndgcffor.html
pp. 243-267, from:
'Dissecting the Holocaust'
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/
Illustration Group 15 (a, b, c; next page) is said to document the execution of Polish Jews at the edge of an open grave.[42] Sometimes the shooting soldier is wearing glasses, sometimes he is not; sometimes his collar patch has white edges, sometimes not. Especially in illustration 15c he looks as though he was cut out and pasted in. There are white outlines around his uniform, and he lacks a shadow. The men at the transition into the background also look cut-and-pasted. Try to match their legs to their bodies! This is possibly a photomontage at best, but definitely, at least, a forgery with drawn-in sections. Again, this does not prove that the Germans did not shoot people, especially partisans, after they were condemned to death, and buried them in mass graves. This certainly happened and has been documented by the Germans themselves, since this was neither illegal nor unusual during time of war.
Image
Image
Image

also see:
viewtopic.php?t=441
Note there are no legs on the pasted-in men in the background.

For a good review of this and other fake 'holocaust' photos go to:
http://www.codoh.com/found/fndgcffor.html

- Hannover


- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Ma

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 4 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:00 am)

2.107 A soldier of the Soviet Red Army in a Nazi camp following its liberation, standing beside a wagon loaded with corpses.

Image


I recently exposed this photo as a fraud on my blog.
http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/photo-of-electrocuted-jewsmaterial-for.html

The photo had been passed to the US government already by late 1942; it can't show a liberated camp and what the atrocity-propagandists originally claimed:

"This photograph shows bodies of electrocuted victims piled on a truck, which
is going to a factory where the bodies will be used for making oil and soap."


Image
Image
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Alleged mass graves photos according to Thames Darwin

Postby Thames Darwin » 4 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:16 am)

To Hannover: I daresay that were you provided with similar photos but told that they were the photos of people killed by the "Judeobolsheviks," you'd accept them as evidence. In fact, I know you would accept them. I'd stake everything I have on it. To reiterate my key question to you before continuing: Do you believe the Nazis killed a single Jew who didn't deserve it?

To Bunny the Lesser: Interesting that you identified at least one fake. Given your willingness to concede that Jews were shot en masse on the eastern front, and not as "partisans," are any of the listed photos true, do you think?

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Re: Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Ma

Postby Thames Darwin » 4 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:26 am)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:I recently exposed this photo as a fraud on my blog.
http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/photo-of-electrocuted-jewsmaterial-for.html

The photo had been passed to the US government already by late 1942; it can't show a liberated camp and what the atrocity-propagandists originally claimed:

"This photograph shows bodies of electrocuted victims piled on a truck, which
is going to a factory where the bodies will be used for making oil and soap."


Image
Image
[/quote]

Unfortunately you were slightly less than honest with your captioning thereof, at least on your site.

The caption for that photo is: "Bodies of Jews who died in the Ghetto in Warsaw are being carted out. This task is performed by Russian prisoners." The photo appears on p. 110 of the PDF and is the fifth photo shown. Ergo, we can assume that the proper caption is the one marked with the Roman numeral V on page 107.

You're welcome

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Re: Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Ma

Postby Hannover » 4 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:30 pm)

Thames Darwin wrote:To Hannover: I daresay that were you provided with similar photos but told that they were the photos of people killed by the "Judeobolsheviks," you'd accept them as evidence. In fact, I know you would accept them. I'd stake everything I have on it. To reiterate my key question to you before continuing: Do you believe the Nazis killed a single Jew who didn't deserve it?

Desperation has obviously set in as you're truly grasping at straws posting some ridiculous "photos" of alleged 'mass graves' which would be laughed out of any legit court of law based upon the points that I made about them.
Your bizarre "Judeobolsheviks" silliness is an attempted subject change.
The other silly question is irrelevant to your debunked "photos" as well.

Once again, show us actual & verifiable excavations of alleged mass graves where verifiable remains of Jews can actually be seen.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Ma

Postby Hektor » 4 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:42 pm)

Thames Darwin wrote:...

Unfortunately you were slightly less than honest with your captioning thereof, at least on your site.

The caption for that photo is: "Bodies of Jews who died in the Ghetto in Warsaw are being carted out. This task is performed by Russian prisoners." The photo appears on p. 110 of the PDF and is the fifth photo shown. Ergo, we can assume that the proper caption is the one marked with the Roman numeral V on page 107.
...
I checked the document (Thanks for cooperating on this Thames and rabbit, made me find a new source for documentation) and it seems you are correct that that the Vth caption belongs to the photo. Being slightly "less then honest" is however quite different from being less then correct. I can't see what the TheBlackRabbit could in any way gain from linking up to the incorrect correction. And I also don't see any other reason for being dishonest here.

Anyway, why not skip evading for a while, and get straight to the point of this thread?

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Re: Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Ma

Postby neugierig » 4 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:28 pm)

I’ll be following this with interest. Up front, a picture with a caption has no probative value what ever. Unless of course it is part of a report filed by experts, containing all the necessary data. And, the location most be provided for verification. Sadly however, as is, no expert in crime investigation would risk his/her career to try and verify what is alleged, thus we are back to pictures of whatever. Marina Sorokina wrote that all data on alleged German crimes: “…were to be handed over immediately to the NKVD’s Bureau of State Records…”(People and Procedures, p.813).

This ESC was a farce, the NKVD ‘investigating. Werner Maser asked why German historians are reluctant to investigate, vast areas are still ‘terra incognita’. Is it because they are afraid not to find what is allegedly there?(Fälschungen, Dichtung und Wahrheit…, p.332).

No verifiable investigations by independent experts, no evidence.

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Re: Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Ma

Postby Hektor » 4 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:36 pm)

Thames Darwin wrote:To Hannover: I daresay that were you provided with similar photos but told that they were the photos of people killed by the "Judeobolsheviks," you'd accept them as evidence. In fact, I know you would accept them. I'd stake everything I have on it. To reiterate my key question to you before continuing: Do you believe the Nazis killed a single Jew who didn't deserve it?....

So how much do you have, Thames? Or do you just have a big mouth?

Fact is the holocaust literature is riddled with faked photos as already shown by Udo Walendy and others.

But lets take Hannover to the test.

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Re: Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Ma

Postby Hannover » 4 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:57 pm)

But lets take Hannover to the test.

I welcome that test. Please proceed.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Ma

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 4 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:05 pm)

After I wrote this post I wondered: Should this thread be about the alleged 2 million einsatzgruppen killings in the East and photos of any bodies or excavations from that? Because I see it's turned into photos from anywhere, Thames Darwin's source page has photos from all over.

Yes, let's see what Thames Darwin is showing us, but let's not go anywhere near an ad hominem attack. Ie where Hektor wrote "Or do you just have a big mouth?"

Shouldn't we be mostly discussing the photos in the link that Thames Darwin offers? We've done that with photo 1.8 and 1.42 which looks particularly fake, like a painting. Particularly if one knows that there were consumer cameras during WWII that took extremely sharp photos. Could people please refer to photo numbers on the site Thames Darwin offers.

The Majdanek section looks like propaganda photos. The USHMM uses one of these photos of crematory ovens
http://www.ushmm.org/learn/timeline-of- ... n-majdanek

but I doubt they'd use the others since they're so clearly propaganda. Take 3.32: A heaping pile of ash? Or 3.20: a pile of bones with skulls in the front. Did the Soviets find the camp this way supposedly or did the Soviets build this pile? In the early holocaust myth, Majdanek was a major death camp. Now in the standard story the alleged number of deaths isn't even close to alleged Auschwitz deaths. These photos appear to be from when Majdanek was being presented as a major death camp.

On the HC site I see alleged mass graves of Vinnitsa, but isn't this place where the Soviets said at Nuremberg that the Nazis slaughtered people, but it turned out that it was the Soviet NKVD that killed thousands there? Carlo Mattogno in his book Belzec, mentions Katyn Forest documentation along with the Germans documenting the thousands killed at Vinnitsa by the Soviets. Extensive documentation.

So are these photos a vestige of when Vinnitsa was blamed on the Germans and not the Soviets or is this a supposedly different killing at same place?

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Re: Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Ma

Postby hermod » 4 years 3 months ago (Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:06 am)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:The Majdanek section looks like propaganda photos. The USHMM uses one of these photos of crematory ovens
http://www.ushmm.org/learn/timeline-of- ... n-majdanek

but I doubt they'd use the others since they're so clearly propaganda. Take 3.32: A heaping pile of ash? Or 3.20: a pile of bones with skulls in the front.


And there will still be Holo-crooks and ignorant parrots asking the fallacious question "Why did the Nazis destroyed the Birkenau crematoria if they had nothing to hide?" in spite of that... :roll:
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Ma

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 4 years 3 months ago (Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:49 am)

Thames Darwin wrote:Unfortunately you were slightly less than honest with your captioning thereof, at least on your site.

The caption for that photo is: "Bodies of Jews who died in the Ghetto in Warsaw are being carted out. This task is performed by Russian prisoners." The photo appears on p. 110 of the PDF and is the fifth photo shown. Ergo, we can assume that the proper caption is the one marked with the Roman numeral V on page 107.

You're welcome


Unfortunately for you TD, you're completely wrong. But you've just made a mistake; I'm not one to throw around spurious accusations about dishonesty unlike some.

You evidently missed that there is a caption IIIa listed on page 105 of the PDF, therefore caption IV (which I quoted) refers to the 5th photograph (which is the one shown above).

Cutting to the chase: The photo shown both here and on the blog is correctly captioned.

You're welcome. :D
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney


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