The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

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The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby Mulegino1 » 5 years 2 months ago (Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:25 pm)

Entire article here:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js ... naris.html


"The man behind the Nazi Abwehr spy network, Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, was a shrewd, brilliant spymaster who not only managed to keep control of the Abwehr. He outwitted the slippery Himmler at almost every turn, while joined with other high-ranking German officers in a dangerous plot to eliminate Hitler and make a separate peace with the Allies.
Still, today, Wilhelm Canaris is the number one mystery man of the Nazi regime under Hitler - a man historians hardly can classify. A man who only seldomly came out of his shell, who didn’t talk much but was rather a listener. Almost everybody who knew him didn't really know exactly what his purpose and intentions were.
On the one hand he was the great protector of the German opposition against Hitler - on the other hand he was at the same time the one who prepared all the big expansion plans for the acts and crimes of Hitler in the Third Reich. While he highly protected and motivated the opposition members who were eager to fight against Hitler, he was also hunting them as conspirators - one of the many contradictions he was forced to live with to stay in control of the Abwehr.
Wilhelm Canaris, born January 1, 1887, in Aplerbeck, Germany, was celebrated as a war hero during the First World War for his exploits as a submarine captain, and he later became a top military spy for Germany. Canaris was appointed to head the Abwehr Military Intelligence in 1935.
In 1938, he made efforts to hinder Hitler from attacking Czechoslovakia and later he played an active role as a peace keeper. Canaris personally went to Franco and told him not to allow passage to the Germans for the purpose of capturing Gibraltar. Canaris was directly involved in the 1938 and 1939 coup attempts.
Admiral Canaris was an eye-witness to the killing of civilians in Poland. At Bedzin, SS troops pushed 200 Jews into a synagogueand then set it aflame. They all burned to death. Canaris was shocked. On 10 September, 1939, he had traveled to the front to watch the German Army in action. Wherever he went, his intelligence officers told him of an orgy of massacre. Two days later, he went to Hitler’s headquarters train, the Amerika, in Upper Silesia, to protest. He first saw General Wilhelm Keitel, Chief of the Armed Forces High Command. “I have information,” Canaris told Keitel, “that mass executions are being planned in Poland and that members of the Polish nobility and the clergy have been singled out for extermination.”
Canaris told Keitel, “The world will one day hold the Wehrmacht responsible for these methods since these things are taking place under its nose.” But Keitel urged Canaris to take the matter no further.
Soon the Vatican began to receive regular, detailed reports of Nazi atrocities in Poland. The information had been gathered by agents of the Abwehr by order of Canaris, who passed them on to Dr. Josef Muller, a devout Catholic and a leading figure in the Catholic resistance to Hitler. And Muller got the reports safely to Rome.
Canaris sent another of his colleagues, Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer, on a flight to Sweden to meet secretly with Bishop Bell of Chichester. Bonhoeffer told Bell of the crimes his nation was committing, and assured Bell of growing resistance in Germany to such acts.
In March 1943, Canaris personally flied to Smolensk to plan Hitler’s assassination with conspirators on the staff of Army Group Center."


Comment: So we are supposed to believe that a traitor collaborating with the enemy- who were bombing his country to smithereens- and who regularly passed on atrocity propaganda to the Vatican (with obvious emphasis on the Polish Catholic victims, no doubt to increase Vatican hostility to the Reich) and who was the head of Military Intelligence would not have made every conceivable effort to collect the massive evidence of homicidal gassings going on- photographs and documents on microfilm, etc. and disseminate them to as wide an audience as possible?
Apparently, Canaris and the rest of the plotters hated Hitler more than they loved Germany, so it follows from logic that they would have taken every measure possible (and they certainly had the means and opportunity) to demonize the Hitler regime with ironclad physical evidence for an “industrial scale genocide”.

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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby Inquisitor » 5 years 2 months ago (Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:09 am)

At Bedzin, SS troops pushed 200 Jews into a synagogueand then set it aflame. They all burned to death. Canaris was shocked. On 10 September, 1939, he had traveled to the front to watch the German Army in action. Wherever he went, his intelligence officers told him of an orgy of massacre.


Geez - they even trotted out that tired old generic atrocity tale of ( x- number of) people being forced into (synagogue, church, etc.) and it being burned down with them inside. Some variant or another of this story has been used to demonize enemies over and again. Indeed, it appears more than once on WW2. (Oradur-sur-Glane, etc.)

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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby Hektor » 5 years 2 months ago (Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:24 am)

To my knowledge the rest of the "Resistance" is also silent about "gas chambers" used to kill people.
Or would have anybody some timely record by one of the "Resistance" figures indicating homicidal gassings?

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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby Louisa » 5 years 2 months ago (Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:51 am)

Were members of the Wehrmacht generally present in the camps?
There were of course members present for the mass slaughters in Poland and Ukraine.

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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby Hannover » 5 years 2 months ago (Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:58 am)

Louisa wrote:Were members of the Wehrmacht generally present in the camps?
There were of course members present for the mass slaughters in Poland and Ukraine.

No they were not.
What "mass slaughters"? . Please actually show us the alleged mass graves for these alleged "mass slaughters". You cannot.

And why are you changing the subject of this thread?

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The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby Hektor » 5 years 2 months ago (Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:52 pm)

Louisa wrote:Were members of the Wehrmacht generally present in the camps?
There were of course members present for the mass slaughters in Poland and Ukraine.

Canaris wasn't just a "member of the Wehrmacht" but head of military intelligence. And he wasn't the only intelligence person in the "Resistance". If there really were homicidal gas chambers, the "Resistance" would have been in the know. And of course they'd pick up on this for their justification. Did they?

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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby Inquisitor » 5 years 2 months ago (Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:19 pm)

Hektor wrote:
Louisa wrote:Were members of the Wehrmacht generally present in the camps?
There were of course members present for the mass slaughters in Poland and Ukraine.

Canaris wasn't just a "member of the Wehrmacht" but head of military intelligence. And he wasn't the only intelligence person in the "Resistance". If there really were homicidal gas chambers, the "Resistance" would have been in the know. And of course they'd pick up on this for their justification. Did they?


Indeed - for goodness sake, Canaris was personal friends (at least socially speaking) with Heydrich and his wife! Despite whatever competition existed between the various agencies, he (Canaris) no doubt had connections with more than enough folks "on the inside" in the SD/SS to have all manner of details of some industrialized, gas-chamber-fueled mass-murder operations or the plans therefore...should such things have actually existed, of course. And as the war dragged on, he'd most assuredly have used any and all of that information to undermine Hitler.


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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby hermod » 5 years 2 months ago (Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:24 pm)

Hektor wrote:To my knowledge the rest of the "Resistance" is also silent about "gas chambers" used to kill people.


Indeed...

1944 plot against Hitler, yet nothing about 'extermination'
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby laapatti » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:19 am)

Hektor wrote:To my knowledge the rest of the "Resistance" is also silent about "gas chambers" used to kill people.
Or would have anybody some timely record by one of the "Resistance" figures indicating homicidal gassings?


According to this article on Swedish diplomat Vendel, his information came from Germans associated to resistance. Part of Vendels report:

"The num­ber of Jews murdered in Lublin is estimated at 40,000. The Jews over fifty years of age and children under ten are especially subjected to extermination. The rest are left alive in order to fill the gap in the workforce; they will be exterminated as soon as they are no longer use­ful. Their property is confiscated; it mostly falls into the hands of SS men. In the cities all Jews are gathered; they are officially informed that it is for the purpose of 'delousing'. At the entrance they have to leave their clothes, which are immediately sent to a 'central warehouse textile materials'. Delousing is in practice gassing, after which all are packed into previ­ously prepared mass graves. The source from whom I received all the information about the conditions in the General Government is such that there can be no shadow of a doubt that his description is true."

http://www.jozeflewandowski.se/texter/E ... ocaust.htm

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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby Mulegino1 » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:34 pm)

laapatti wrote:
Hektor wrote:To my knowledge the rest of the "Resistance" is also silent about "gas chambers" used to kill people.
Or would have anybody some timely record by one of the "Resistance" figures indicating homicidal gassings?


According to this article on Swedish diplomat Vendel, his information came from Germans associated to resistance. Part of Vendels report:

"The num­ber of Jews murdered in Lublin is estimated at 40,000. The Jews over fifty years of age and children under ten are especially subjected to extermination. The rest are left alive in order to fill the gap in the workforce; they will be exterminated as soon as they are no longer use­ful. Their property is confiscated; it mostly falls into the hands of SS men. In the cities all Jews are gathered; they are officially informed that it is for the purpose of 'delousing'. At the entrance they have to leave their clothes, which are immediately sent to a 'central warehouse textile materials'. Delousing is in practice gassing, after which all are packed into previ­ously prepared mass graves. The source from whom I received all the information about the conditions in the General Government is such that there can be no shadow of a doubt that his description is true."

http://www.jozeflewandowski.se/texter/E ... ocaust.htm


It sounds like the unidentified source is merely repeating the wild rumors about the hygienic program being widely circulated by British propaganda, the Jewish Telegraph Agency, and the communist propagandists.

British intelligence knew that these stories about the gas chambers were really propaganda:

Statement by Head of British Intelligence about gas-chamber stories

Public Record Office Document, FO 371/34551

27 August, 1943
“In my opinion it is incorrect to describe Polish information regarding German atrocities as “trustworthy.’
The Poles, and to a far greater extent the Jews, tend to exaggerate German atrocities in order to stoke us up.
They seem to have succeeded.
Mr Allen and myself have both followed German atrocities quite closely. I do not believe that there is any
evidence which would be accepted in a Law Court that Polish children have been killed on the spot by
Germans when their parents were being deported to work in Germany, nor that Polish children have been
sold to German settlers. As regards putting Poles to death in gas chambers, I do not believe that there is any
evidence that this has been done, There have been many stories to this effect, and we have played them up,
in P.W.E. [Psy Warfare Executive] rumours without believing that they had any foundation. At any rate
there is far less evidence than exists for the mass murder of Polish officers by the Russians at Katyn. On
the other hand we do know that the Germans are out to destroy Jews of any age unless they are fit for
manual labour.
I think that we weaken our case against the Germans by publicly giving credence to atrocity stories for
which we have no evidence. These mass executions in gas chambers remind me of the story of employment
of human corpses during the last war for the manufacture of fat, which was a grotesque lie and led to the
true stories of German enormities being brushed aside as being mere propaganda...”
(signed) V Cavendish-Bentinck


Wouldn't Canaris-with an entire intelligence agency at his disposal, make every effort to prove the gas chambers to be true by providing hard physical and documentary evidence of their existence?

After all, hearsay is not very convincing. Canaris could have had some of his operatives infiltrate the camps, and take photographs of the gas chambers and sensitive documents, which could be put onto microfilm and smuggled in diplomatic pouches into Portugal ,Spain, Switzerland and the Vatican. It would have been child's play. Canaris also had aerial reconnaissance aircraft at his disposal.

Seeing as the attitude of the conspirators was that they hated Hitler more than they loved Germany, it is hard to imagine that they would have spared any effort to demonize him and his regime with hard physical and documentary evidence.

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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby Hannover » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:03 pm)

laapatti's posted link:
http://www.jozeflewandowski.se/texter/E ... ocaust.htm
and it's references reads like a Who's Who of Discredited Characters & Demolished 'Holocaust' Claims.
i.e.: Gerstein, Lacquer.
Search them at this forum and see.

laapatti quoted:
The num­ber of Jews murdered in Lublin is estimated at 40,000. The Jews over fifty years of age and children under ten are especially subjected to extermination.
Delousing is in practice gassing, after which all are packed into previ­ously prepared mass graves.

Right. 40,000 packed into alleged mass graves, but no mass graves have been excavated and no human remains shown.
Such is the 'holocaust' storyline. A big bluff.

See here for what a real excavation, Katyn forest, looks like:
Katyn facts: 'Amtliches Material zum Massenmord von Katyn'

Revisionists are just the messengers. The absurd impossibility of the storyline is the message

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby neugierig » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:18 pm)

A little from the testimony of Hans Bernd Gisevius at the IMT:

“25 April 46

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Can you tell us whether Kaltenbrunner took an even more sadistic attitude than Himmler and Schellenberg had done? Were you informed about that?

GISEVIUS: Yes. I know that Heydrich, in a certain sense, really had something akin to a bad conscience when he committed his crimes. At any rate, he did not like it when those things were discussed openly in Gestapo circles. Nebe, who as Chief of the Criminal Police had the same rank as the Chief of the Gestapo, Mueller, always told me that Heydrich took care to conceal his crimes.

With the entry of Kaltenbrunner into that organization, this practice ceased. All those things were now openly discussed among the department chiefs of the Gestapo. By now the war had started, of course. These gentlemen lunched together, and Nebe often came to me from such luncheons so completely exhausted that he had a nervous breakdown. On two occasions Nebe had to be sent on long sick leave because he simply could not stand the open cynicism with which mass murder, and the technique of mass murder, were discussed.

I remind you only of the gruesome chapter of the installation of the first gas chambers, which was discussed in detail in this circle, as were the experiments as to how one could remove the Jews most quickly and most thoroughly. These were the most horrible descriptions I have ever heard in my life. It is, of course, so much worse when you hear them first-hand from someone who is still under the direct impression of such discussions-and who because of this is almost at the point of physical and mental collapse, than when you hear of them now from documents. Nebe became so ill that actually as early as 20 July he suffered from a persecution mania and was a mere human wreck after everything he had gone through…”
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/04-25-46.asp

Gisevius was an intelligence (Abwehr) officer, and after Dulles was stationed in Zurich the two met often (Allen Welsh Dulles, Germany’s Underground, 2000, pp.128ff). However, good old Hans seems to have forgotten to mention the little detail about the Gaskammern to Dulles (Ibid, pp.xvff).

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Wilf

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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby laapatti » 5 years 2 months ago (Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:36 pm)

Mulegino1 wrote:Wouldn't Canaris-with an entire intelligence agency at his disposal, make every effort to prove the gas chambers to be true by providing hard physical and documentary evidence of their existence?

After all, hearsay is not very convincing. Canaris could have had some of his operatives infiltrate the camps, and take photographs of the gas chambers and sensitive documents, which could be put onto microfilm and smuggled in diplomatic pouches into Portugal ,Spain, Switzerland and the Vatican. It would have been child's play. Canaris also had aerial reconnaissance aircraft at his disposal.

Seeing as the attitude of the conspirators was that they hated Hitler more than they loved Germany, it is hard to imagine that they would have spared any effort to demonize him and his regime with hard physical and documentary evidence.


Hating Hitler does not obviously necessitate loving Jews. They could have had very well not given a damn about what happened to Jews. And whatever the Brits thought, by the end of 1942 Hitler was already demonized by the Soviets and by the Polish sources. They could have also thought that one needs to get rid of Hitler, that is top-priority, and it is not done by demonizing him but by killing him or in other means removing him from power, thinking showing photos or docs does not stop him killing anyone.

Another thing that is part of this is epistemology. We have seen also here how “hard” evidence for example photos are, it is not very easy to convince anyone by just showing someone a photo where someone is executed or showing photos of some people in mass graves, one needs at least more evidence of who is executed or who lies in the grave. Different kinds of sources work better here, corroborating what is shown in photos by witnesses and documents, convergence if you like. But as we know, documents can be faked as well. Thus, one could very well think eyewitness is the only convincing source, and I’m sure many think so even today. You know, Stalin trusted mostly in fake witnesses and tortured confessions instead of docs in his show-trials, even if he could have produced masses of fake docs to support his case as well.

Or one could think it is just enough when telling about these things by Nazis inside the system, people will believe, and no extra-effort is necessary. Perhaps they thought they are important persons enough that everyone would believe them even without “hard” evidence. And obviously they could have thought the gas chambers are not a big deal, but the extermination program itself in its entirety is what matters. Even if people today are obsessed with these chambers, that does not mean everyone was back then.

Concerning documents, if we are to follow the “official storyline” they would have known everything is in coded language anyhow, so nobody would believe docs actually mean gassing. Showing lists that give information people getting in and out of camps, exiting via “Sonderbehandlung” or “gesondert untergebracht”, would not have been very convincing. Showing construction documents does not help either, as they could be interpreted in so many different ways, as we very well know.

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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby Hannover » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:55 am)

laapatti, in your post above we see a lot of speculative 'could haves, maybes, & perhapses' in your attempt to rationalize the fact that neither Canaris or any of the plotters in the Hitler assassination attempt ever mentioned 'gas chambers'.

But you previously claimed in a matter of fact manner that witnesses stated that 40,000 Jews were gassed and then dumped into mass graves in Lublin, here:
http://www.jozeflewandowski.se/texter/E ... ocaust.htm

So why can't you show us excavations and the contents of these alleged mass graves? After all, it would be a huge event for 'holocaust' promoters.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: The Silence of Canaris on the "Gas Chambers"

Postby laapatti » 5 years 2 months ago (Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:05 am)

Hannover wrote:laapatti, in your post above we see a lot of speculative 'could haves, maybes, & perhapses' in your attempt to rationalize the fact that neither Canaris or any of the plotters in the Hitler assassination attempt ever mentioned 'gas chambers'.


Yes, I replied to a one speculation with another.

Hannover wrote:But you previously claimed in a matter of fact manner that witnesses stated that 40,000 Jews were gassed and then dumped into mass graves in Lublin, here:


It was a reply to a post concerning the silence of resistance on gassings, not a statement concerning the facticity of the message. Whether the information given forward to Swedes by resistance was correct or not is more or less irrelevant here and as far as I can see also off-topic.


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