Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby historystudent300 » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat May 02, 2015 7:21 am)

I'd throw some money in, if some sort of crowd-funding could be organized to speed the translation of this, (and other revisionist videos.)

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby NLH » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat May 02, 2015 8:15 am)

I find the topic of the Einsatzgruppen, "the so-called German killing squads that operated behind the Eastern front" (Dalton) or "the teams of SS who followed behind the regular army on Barbarossa, wiping out civilians as they went" (Turley), very interesting.

Surely we have English/French revisionists here willing to work on subtitles? It seems like their is a great body of work missing on this topic from a revisionist perspective, as pointed out in the initial post of this thread, and this video series might be a good place to start.

historystudent300 wrote:I'd throw some money in, if some sort of crowd-funding could be organized to speed the translation of this, (and other revisionist videos.)


Good idea.

Some information:

In 2009, Joseph Bishop wrote, The Einsatzgruppen and the Holocaust:
http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... ocaust.php

Dr. Thomas Dalton also discusses the subject in his review here:

"Longerich dedicates Part III to the Einsatzgruppen, those roving militias that allegedly killed between one and 1.5 million Jews in the occupied Soviet territory. As those who have researched this topic know, the entire basis for the claimed shootings is murky..."
Source: http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... cution.php


In 2011 Jürgen Grad stated:

"Together with two other revisionists, I plan to write a study on the Einsatzgruppen question."
Source: http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... ionism.php


Any news on this or anything similar by anyone else?

EtienneSC wrote:Carlo Mattogno has expressed an intention to deal with it and Robert Faurisson has criticized some French work.


Any sources for these?
"Believe me, I came into Auschwitz in a much worse condition than I actually left it."
- Kitty Hart-Moxon, Jewish Holocaust Survivor.

June 1998 testimony, USC Shoah Foundation, Visual History Archive.
Part 2 - YouTube - 1:21:42

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Werd » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat May 02, 2015 4:40 pm)

Jurgen Graf only wrote the introduction for the book on the Einsatzgruppen Carlo Mattogno is currently working on. Jurgen is busy with other translation work that is not related to revisionism; other work that is more profitable. He is not out of revisionism for good, but he is toning it down for a bit. He does need to feed and shelter himself. Carlo also has to work out the kinks in the Italian edition of The Crematory Ovens of Auschwitz before Rudolf and he prepare for a full English translation. Actually, it is almost completely translated already except for one chapter written by Franco Deana which unfortunately, has some mistakes in it that need to be corrected.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby EtienneSC » 4 years 9 months ago (Sun May 10, 2015 5:47 pm)

Here is the fourth and apparently last part of this highly important series of videos on Einsatzgruppen activities in the Soviet Union:

It includes a summary of extremely important new revisionist research on the Einsatzgruppen reports by Sigfrid Verbecke and an interview with Verbecke. The key points are:

1. the total deaths mentioned in the general reports of the Einsatzgruppen is 372,567. There is a possibility that the reports could be or contain forgeries, but no particular reason to think so. Paul Blobel thought they were full of exaggerations, probably tenfold (Affadavit of 6 June 1947 in trial records, see also Paget, Manstein, 172); others refer to double counting. However, these reports were sent to Ohlendorf in Berlin, despite the lack of verification. If unknown persons killed were all Jews the maximum recorded deaths of Jews would be 445,000.

2. Previous research, including that done by the prosecution for the Nuremberg trial of the Einsatzgruppen is shown to be faulty. The trial did not attempt to support its accusation that over 1,000,000 persons were killed in two years and the defense did not have access to these documents (TMI, Green series, IV, 85, French version). Defense documents were not published. Hilberg, in Destruction of the European Jews, does not claim to have added together these figures, but relied on supposed higher level summaries that are less authoritative. Nor do Ralf Ogoreck or Yitzak Arad.

In the first line of the report, shown on screen (01.38), 201 persons are said to have been shot and it is noted that the Jewish population supported the Russian border guard. For non-French speakers, English documents are cited on screen at various points in the video. Verbecke can supply copies of the reports (3,000 pages) for €300.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Hannover » 4 years 9 months ago (Sun May 10, 2015 8:09 pm)

1. the total deaths mentioned in the general reports of the Einsatzgruppen is 372,567. There is a possibility that the reports could be or contain forgeries, but no particular reason to think so. Paul Blobel thought they were full of exaggerations, probably tenfold (Affadavit of 6 June 1947 in trial records, see also Paget, Manstein, 172); others refer to double counting. However, these reports were sent to Ohlendorf in Berlin, despite the lack of verification. If unknown persons killed were all Jews the maximum recorded deaths of Jews would be 445,000.

Some points:

- The provenance, line of possession of these reports is critical. Forgeries and tampering are legion with anything dealing with this subject, there is a good reason to think that these 'reports' are no different. For example please recall the bogus Jaeger Report.

- Blobel's said "exaggerations" are interesting, I would like to see more of what more he had to say about these curious "reports".

- Are these the actual reports sent to Berlin, or have they been monkeyed with? ... see my first point. Clearly there was / is a distinct motivation for some to fool around with these "reports".

- Of course we know that not all members of the partisans (illegal, non-uniformed terrorists) were Jews. It's curious why anyone would even make that suggestion. There was a major war in progress and fighting the 'partisans' was big part of it.

2. Previous research, including that done by the prosecution for the Nuremberg trial of the Einsatzgruppen is shown to be faulty. The trial did not attempt to support its accusation that over 1,000,000 persons were killed in two years and the defense did not have access to these documents (TMI, Green series, IV, 85, French version). Defense documents were not published. Hilberg, in Destruction of the European Jews, does not claim to have added together these figures, but relied on supposed higher level summaries that are less authoritative. Nor do Ralf Ogoreck or Yitzak Arad.

No surprise here. Nuremberg was so corrupt that even those who were directly involved have admitted as much. The show trial nature of Nuremberg is no longer a secret.

Regardless, the frequently made claim today that 2,000,000 Jews were 'murdered' by the Einsatzgruppen is now an easily debunked fraud.

Thanks, Etienne SC

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Mortimer » 4 years 9 months ago (Tue May 12, 2015 1:03 am)

On the same subject Germar Rudolf and Sybille Schroder have written Partisan War and Reprisal Killings - http://codoh.com/library/document/1493/
There are 2 sides to every story - always listen or read both points of view and make up your own mind. Don't let others do your thinking for you.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Moderator » 4 years 9 months ago (Tue May 12, 2015 9:59 am)

Mortimer,
You need to do better than simply cite a link. We want comments, viewpoints, why the link is compelling, etc., etc.
Our guidelines are clear.
Thanks, M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby NLH » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat May 16, 2015 11:56 am)

This interview with Germar Rudolf discusses Mattognos work on the Einsatzgruppen, how he researches, etc - http://carolynyeager.net/heretics-hour- ... uthof-camp
"Believe me, I came into Auschwitz in a much worse condition than I actually left it."
- Kitty Hart-Moxon, Jewish Holocaust Survivor.

June 1998 testimony, USC Shoah Foundation, Visual History Archive.
Part 2 - YouTube - 1:21:42

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Balsamo » 4 years 9 months ago (Sun May 17, 2015 2:26 pm)

Am I still unable to post?

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 9 months ago (Mon May 18, 2015 3:20 am)

Balsamo wrote:Am I still unable to post?

Err... No.

Presumably this appears because you had something to say? :)

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Balsamo » 4 years 9 months ago (Tue May 19, 2015 8:48 am)

Kingfisher wrote:
Balsamo wrote:Am I still unable to post?

Err... No.

Presumably this appears because you had something to say? :)


Well I am not so sure, as I am still not permitted to send private message through my codoh account and that my post are moderated.

Anyway,
Here is the missing link.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Moderator » 4 years 9 months ago (Tue May 19, 2015 8:58 am)

Balsamo:
Well I am not so sure, as I am still not permitted to send private message through my codoh account and that my post are moderated.

Your posts are moderated because of your past history of dodging, which should get you tossed, but as Bugsy Siegel said, "Everyone needs a fresh start".
M1
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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Balsamo » 4 years 9 months ago (Tue May 19, 2015 1:37 pm)

Ok then, for the fresh start.

Although it is quite unusually for me to do that kind of thing. I take the occasion here to express my gratitude to Siegfried Verbeke for his treatment of this huge pile of documents and the results he got from them.
Why those documents were not found/treated earlier is still unclear. If any of you knows if a written report by Verbeke exists, I would gladly read it.
That a Revisionist confirms the shooting of 445.000 people (actually it is more than that in Verbeke counting) within a year is what I call a Revisionist breakthrough. I am not sure his fellow revisionists should be so happy though.
Some links posted in this discussion send to articles written by revisionists like Bishop, Dalton or Graf…Well, none of them offers any concrete information about the actual shootings that took place. Only Bishop concedes in his article that he “has no doubt that the EG did kill large numbers of Jews”, but how many? All three insists basically on the physical possibility of shooting some chosen estimations between 800.000 and 1,5 (or even 2 millions) Jews.
I think it is not unfair to say that it is one of the core arguments of Revisionists.
At this point, it is maybe a good idea to answer some of Hannover questions:

Hannover:
“The provenance, line of possession of these reports is critical. Forgeries and tampering are legion with anything dealing with this subject, there is a good reason to think that these 'reports' are no different. For example please recall the bogus Jaeger Report.”


Verbeke answers this question.

He explains the pyramid of reports starting with local reports like Jaeger, centralized (and maybe treated) by the EG commander, like Ohlendorf, who would forward his own reports to Berlin, where an "Amt" will write the definitive report – which I will call “FINAL REPORTS” in this thread. It is those final reports that have been studied by Verbeke.

Can they contain exaggerations?
Again Verbeke clearly shows that those reports are the cleaned version of the operation
As shown in the case of Simferpol, the structure seems to have done a great job in correcting overstatement by local units. We can see that the death toll for this locality is reduced – by the Nazi chains of information – from 10.000 to 300.

“Are these the actual reports sent to Berlin, or have they been monkeyed with? ... see my first point. Clearly there was / is a distinct motivation for some to fool around with these "reports".”


Actually no, the Final report is the final one, based on all the previous reports, as explained in above. Those reports were written in Berlin!
Verbeke admits that those reports could have been easily forged or manipulated, but he rejects the idea as those Final reports were printed in 65 copies, which makes manipulation extremely dangerous and improbable.
Vincent Reynouard agrees.

I think that one can consider those Final reports authentic and the more accurate as possible.

Another important aspect of those Final Reports is that they cover a lot of different topic, and Verbeke says, only a small part of those 3331 pages concern the shootings. So those are not Reports on shootings, but shootings are covered by them.

It would be a real nice thing to obtain a copy of Verbeke counting, as it seems very precise. It includes the date, the place, who did the killing (the Ek themselves or local militia or Waffen SS/ Heere), those clearly Jews, those clearly non Jews, and a column dedicated to the unknowns.
here are the numbers:

The number of known Jews killed is 372. 567
The number of non-Jews is 1(?)970
The number of unknown is 73584

Forgetting about the second category, Vincent Reynouard will sum up to 445.000.
In reality, the numbers are 446,551 for the two categories counted, at which should be added the strange number between 10.970 and 19.970 non Jews. Or a total between 457.121 and 466.121.
Indeed that makes more than 10.000 people per day! (sometimes even more depending on the sources provided by Verbeke).

It should be noted that those numbers are the result of only ONE YEAR of activities.

I really would like to know how revisionists could digest those numbers provided by a fellow revisionist.
At least, it should force to "revise" the physical impossibility for such a small group of persons (EG) to perpetuate such an action - of course, and it is clearly shown by Verbeke, this result could not have been possible on their own resources. But the reports clearly shows the massive use of "Militia" as well as the Wehrmacht and the Waffen SS. Which should solve the question.

So to paraphrase president Obama, "Yes, they could".

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Hannover » 4 years 9 months ago (Tue May 19, 2015 5:00 pm)

Oh yawn, the same old debunked stuff again.

balsamo said:
That a Revisionist confirms the shooting of 445.000 people (actually it is more than that in Verbeke counting) within a year is what I call a Revisionist breakthrough. I am not sure his fellow revisionists should be so happy though.

My French is less than fluent, please show me where this "445.000" is confirmed.
All three insists basically on the physical possibility of shooting some chosen estimations between 800.000 and 1,5 (or even 2 millions) Jews.

Really? Then where are the necessary mass graves that are alleged? Please show us verified, excavated mass graves with visible corpses of Jews. Recall the exterminationists claim to know exactly where they are.

The reports are generally laughable. see:
Jaeger report debunked:
Hannover @ two British decodes of Police Batallion 320
and the accuracy of 'reports" addressed here:
from: http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... ionism.php

5) The Einsatzgruppen reports

As proof for the alleged huge slaughter in the occupied Eastern territories, first and foremost are cited the so-called "Ereignismeldungen” (event reports) of the four Einsatzgruppen. These documents cover the period from June 1941 to May 1942 and mention numerous massacres, with victims occasionally numbering in five-digit figures. The "Ereignismeldungen” were supposedly found by the Allies in the Berlin RSHA. That the Germans let this sort of incriminating material fall into the hands of their enemies is strikingly odd.

The alleged slaughter of 33,711 Ukrainian Jews at Babi Yar near Kiev is the most notorious massacre ascribed to the Germans on the Eastern Front. This figure appears in an Einsatzgruppen report from 7 October 1941.26 According to the established version of the facts, these 33,711 Jews were shot and their bodies thrown into the ravine of Babij Yar on 29 September 1941. But the first witnesses told completely different stories: The massacre was perpetrated in a graveyard, or near a graveyard, or in a forest, or in the very city of Kiev, or on the shores of the Dnieper. As to the murder weapons, the early witnesses spoke of rifles, or machine guns, or submachine guns, or hand grenades, or bayonets, or knives; some witnesses claimed that the victims had been put to death via lethal injections whereas others asserted that they had been drowned in the Dnieper, or buried alive, or killed by means of electric current, or squashed by tanks, or driven into minefields, or that their skulls had been crushed with rocks, or that they had been murdered in gas vans.27 Now that is what we call good, solid evidence, is it not, Dr. Lindtner?

When the Red Army approached Kiev, the Germans allegedly dug up the mass graves and burnt the bodies. This work was reportedly finished on 28 September. But two days before, on 26 September, Babi Yar was photographed by a German reconnaissance aircraft. The air photo shows no fires, no open graves and no traces of human activity.28 As a matter of fact, there are some photographs of human remains at Babi Yar, although they do not appear in the file of the Soviet commission. Mattogno has analyzed these photographs. But I do not want to go into details here, so I suggest simply deleting this sentence.

So the report from 7 October 1941, which mentions an imaginary slaughter, is a fraud. This means that all other Einsatzgruppen reports are equally suspect from the beginning.


balsamo:
Actually no, the Final report is the final one, based on all the previous reports, as explained in above. Those reports were written in Berlin!

Again, there are repeated demonstrations of the mass fraudulence of these reports.

Verbeke admits that those reports could have been easily forged or manipulated, but he rejects the idea as those Final reports were printed in 65 copies, which makes manipulation extremely dangerous and improbable.
Vincent Reynouard agrees.

What's dangerous and improbable about it? Repetition of the big lie is a key to it's success.

No mass graves as alleged, no Einsatzgruppen shootings as alleged. It really all boils down to that.
Think the Babi Yar fraud.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Balsamo » 4 years 9 months ago (Tue May 19, 2015 6:25 pm)

Hi Hannover,
May I recall you that it is not a “history channel” documentary, but a video from two European Revisionists?
They are debating about what seems previously undiscovered or undisclosed material.
All I said comes from the video.

There are other French speakers members here who can confirm my rendition.

Hannover said:
My French is less than fluent, please show me where this "445.000" is confirmed.


The counting is not mine, but Siegfried Verbeke one’s. I am pretty sure that he would gladly sent a copy to all his fellow revisionist friends around the world who ask for one.

Hannover said:
Really? Then where are the necessary mass graves that are alleged? Please show us verified, excavated mass graves with visible corpses of Jews. Recall the exterminationists claim to know exactly where they are.


You take the problem from the wrong side in this case. Nor Siegfried Verbeke nor Vincent Reynouard speaks about mass grave- and the topic is about their video - but about a document they are quite proud to have found.

Nor is it about the Jaeger reports, which I don’t have on hand right now, but on the last level reports written by “professionals” at the very last level of the pyramid, those were the reports that were addressed to people like Heydrich or Himmler.

As shown by the example they give, like Simferpol for which the local – first level reports claimed 10.000, contested by Manstein Lawyer which correctly claims 300, number which features in the Final reports.

So I guess that even the Nazi authorities were aware of the tendency to exaggerate among the low level. I guess it is a question that would deserve an answer: “why the tendency to exaggerate of if not to please the higher level of authority?

Again, They – Verbeke and Reynouard – are talking about previously undisclosed documents, so as a matter of fact- and quite logically – all previous studies written by Revisionists or non-Revisionists should be reconsidered to some extend.

Hannover:
What's dangerous and improbable about it? Repetition of the big lie is a key to it's success


As explained by Verbeke, you don’t forge a newspaper, you can forge a private letter, on isolate order or even a lonely report from some guy, but you would not forge 3301 pages of reports which has been been printed 65 five times. Because, as Reynouard conceded, there is a risk for another copies of this reports to appear somewhere in some unknown archive. Again, the massacres are covered by those 3331 pages, Verbeke had to read all this stuff to extract the elements linked with the mass killings.

Both concerned revisionists agreed that those reports were true and certainly accurate.

Now, as said in the video, Verbeke is ready to send a copy of the full 3371 pages he has for around 300 euros ( 340$). So everyone can check by himself. I see no reason why Revisionists should decline this offer.
Again Hannover, this video has not been made by Browning or Longerich.


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