What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

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What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby Mulegino1 » 4 years 6 months ago (Wed May 13, 2015 2:54 pm)

I believe it would be a good idea to start a discussion regarding the most vulnerable aspect of the exterminationist legend, in order for a "meeting of the minds" (apologies to Raul Hillberg) on how to best approach this part of the debate at exterior forums.

My vote would go to Treblinka II for the following reasons:

1. There is nothing there except a meadow, forest, and what appears to be undisturbed geological strata. This was also the case mere months after the camps' closure.

2. The first Polish "investigation" found no traces of mass graves. Nor did Sturdy-Colls, as demonstrated by Eric Hunt.

3. The claimed methods of execution - steam chambers or diesel exhaust - are utterly laughable.

4. The so called "eyewitness sonderkommando accounts" are absurdities, i.e., stories of being nailed to the wall by the ears, bodies turning yellow from the gas, Ivan the Terrible tearing babies in half, Barry "the rabid anti-semite" dog, the "Road to Heaven", 400 people fitting into 20 square meters, etc.

5. Burying upwards of 700,000 people in a mass grave would require an area much larger than the surface area of the entire camp - unless they created a giant pit. The absurdity of having a giant pit filled with decaying corpses lying open is manifest. It would create an unbearable stench and plagues of flies. It would contaminate the ground water. It would obviously disabuse the prisoners about be "gassed" of the notion that they were merely going to take a shower and cause them to panic and riot.

6. The methods of the outdoor cremations as alleged by the "eyewitnesses" would not have worked.

7. The amount of firewood that would have to have been logged, cured, stored and kept dry in order to cremate the 700,000 plus bodies would have been astronomical - upwards of 150,000,000 kilograms.

8. The number of days with precipitation for 1943 for the region was upwards of 150. This certainly would have been a serious retardant for the alleged outdoor cremations.

9. The logistics of the enormous alleged mass graves as well as the body removal from them would have been impossible, given the lack of the proper heavy machinery which would have been needed to dig the alleged giant pits and retrieve the bodies from them.

10. Treblinka II is a big part of the "Holocaust" legend. The utter lack of physical evidence and the logistical and technical impossibilities of the claims made about it is a huge embarrassment to those who .

For the foregoing reasons, I would submit that Treblinka II is the weakest link in the Exterminationist Legend.

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby Werd » 4 years 6 months ago (Wed May 13, 2015 3:17 pm)

the "Road to Heaven"

They did claim to have found remnants of where poles used to be that would have held up this long fence.

Based on debris collected and patterns in the soil, he has been able to figure out where the Nazis placed poles to hold up the camp's barbed wire fences. That led him to his major breakthrough - the mapping of what the Germans called the Himmelfahrsstrasse, or the "Road to Heaven," a path upon which the inmates were marched naked into the gas chambers. He determined its route by the poles that marked the path.

Apokiliptik @ Sobibor ~ archaeological work finds new info.

And,
In 2010, the archeologists discovered remains of a double fence that encircled the camp and, one year later, the Himmelfahrtsstrasse. "It was pretty clear to us that the gas chambers would be at the end of it," Haimi says. But they hadn't found them yet. The memorial was then faced with closure because of a lack of funding. All the visitor facilities had to be closed temporarily until the Foundation for Polish-German Reconciliation and the State Museum at Majdanek stepped in to take over responsibility for the site.

Haimi and Mazurek resumed their excavations and found the remains of fences, barracks and crematoriums as well as several skeletons. They began to narrow down the search area. Finally, the rabbi of Warsaw gave permission for the removal of the asphalt above the suspected grave.

They finally reached their goal on Sept. 8, when the archeologists uncovered the remains of a red brick wall and, soon after, the next ones. "Both of us looked at it at the same time and smiled," Mazurek says. "We knew we had succeeded."

The archeologists still don't have final proof that these are the gas chamber foundations, but everything suggests that they are -- the position between the Himmelfahrtstrasse, the crematorium and the remains of the barracks of the Sonderkommando -- the mostly-Jewish prisoners responsible for removing the bodies -- as well as a water hole. Last Wednesday, experts from Auschwitz visited the site. "They immediately said, 'That's it'," says Haimi.

Image
A map of the Sobibór death camp created by the archeologists

Image
An aerial view of the site of the gas chambers

Werd @ "Gas chamber" discovered at Sobibor

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby Werd » 4 years 6 months ago (Wed May 13, 2015 3:25 pm)

I would also like to point out that Eric Hunt made note of how there was a well in Majdanek, which is consistent with a normal shower room that did not double as a gas chamber with the gas coming out of the shower heads. A well was also found in Sobibor I. And according to various sources in the exterminationist literature, there was even a well in Treblinka II. Seems to me that burying corpses as deep as was claimed in Treblinka II, six meters deep, that the rotting bodies would contaminate the ground water.


https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2893
by Laurentz Dahl » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:44 pm
"According to "eye-witness" Eliyahu Rosenberg, the graves had a depth of 6 meters. As is mentioned in this interesting thread, there was allegedly a water well situated *inside of the extermination area* (which of course is utterly absurd). At a depth of 6 meters, it is likely that ground water seepage will occur. Also, keep in mind that Treblinka is located not far from river Bug.

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Tr ... inka17.JPG
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Tr ... inka15.JPG

It is therefore not unlikely that the undermost layers of bodies buried in the 6 meter or so deep pits at Treblinka would have come directly into contact with the ground water and been saturated."



https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2159
by Carto's Cutlass Supreme » Sat May 21, 2005 1:49 pm
"Yankel Wiernik, the only inmate who wrote a book on Treblinka goes on and on about the well surrounded by the burial pits. It apparently was a fine well for fresh water! It's clear that this is the well he's talking about because the prisoners' living quarters and the guard tower are right next to the well, and this is where the escape happened:

"Camp No. 2 was entirely different. It contained a barrack for the workers, 30 x 10 meters, a laundry, a small laboratory, quarters for 17 women, a guard station and a well. In addition there were 13 chambers in which inmates were gassed"

"Beyond the area of our barrack there was a well that supplied the kitchen and laundry with water. We made use also of this "gateway," although it was guarded all the time. We made frequent trips to that well, even when we did not need water, in order to get the guards used to seeing us come and go."

The day before he escaped, guess what he was working on? Another well! LOL. Likely in the same area, since he states he's not in camp number 1:

"It so happened that I did not go to Camp No. 1 for several days because I was busy constructing an octagonal building with a suspended roof, resembling a guard station, that was to house a well."

In the following quote they're getting well water as a cover for getting ready to escape, but clearly this is a normal operating water well, which is why the guard didn't notice anything unusual.

"A crew was also picked for fetching water from the well. At around 5 p.m. there suddenly was a great need for water. The gate leading to the well was opened wide and the number of water carriers was considerably augmented."

"As soon as the signal shot rang out, the guard at the well had been killed and his weapons taken from him."

Yankel Wiernik: A Year In Treblinka
http://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm"

Once again , the same topic thread.
by Carto's Cutlass Supreme » Tue May 24, 2005 3:02 pm
"Arad mentions that well working fine also. These people will mention the bad smell from decaying flesh, but then they'll forget about it, and act like everything is normal. You know, fetching some water from the well to make dinner in the kitchen.

What's laughable, is it's like a Hollywood script: fetching water from a well when you're plotting a mutiny! Exciting and with suspense. Just like a made for t.v movie. In fact Arad mentions one of the guards being tossed into this well! But you can't bury the population of a whole city in a mass grave next to a well and expect groundwater in the immediate vicinity not to be contaminated.

I was wrong about Wiernik being the only one to write a book on Treblinka. Wilenberg did many years later. Those are the only two I know of."

I can not find that part about a water well in Treblinka II in Arad's book. Because I have not looked yet. But Thomas Kues says something about water wells in Treblinka II.
"According to the most ambitious exterminationist attempt to visually reconstruct Treblinka, the Peter Laponder maps from the early 2000s,14 there existed a total of five wells in the camp: one well for the German staff in the northernmost part of the camp, one near the kitchen of the Ukrainian guards, one west of the living quarters of the Jewish prisoners and south of the “zoo”, one in the “reception camp” near the railway siding, where the arrivals disembarked their trains, and finally one in the “death camp proper”, in the immediate vicinity of the original “gas chamber building”. The third of these wells is visible in one of Kurt Franz’s photographs of the “zoo”.15 It is clear that this well was manually operated, and no suction hose or similar device is in sight. So far I have not been able to find any detailed descriptions of the other four wells, but it appears that the first three were all used in connection with the kitchens for the guards and prisoners, so that it is likely that they all resembled the one seen on the Kurt Franz photo. The presence of three intake strainers at the camp however indicates that one needed to draw a considerable amount of water from possibly as many as three wells (although one of the intake strainers may have been for spare use). Such a need may possibly have applied to the well in the reception camp, where water under pressure may have been used for cleaning the emptied rail wagons, but I have found no testimonial evidence stating that this well was equipped with a suction system. This would seem to indicate that one or more of the intake strainers were used in the “death camp proper”. From an exterminationist viewpoint such an installation would be rather pointless, but from a revisionist viewpoint it is perfectly explainable, as a shower installation used by hundreds of deportees at a time would have required the drawing of large amounts of water. If the pump system was powered by an engine (as is often the case) this might help explain the origin of the allegation that engine-exhaust gas was used for homicidal gassings. In this context it is worth pointing out that the ARC website displays a photo, apparently taken at some museum exhibition, of what is purported to be a “Gassing pipe used in the Belzec gas chambers”.16 This rusty item, however, with its perforated basket-like lower part, resembles nothing so much as a strainer with a dual intake."

http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... blinka.php

I sent this off to Carlo Mattogno and one of the things he said back to me was, "only a fool would think that the burial of corpses in the neighbourhood of wells was a rational thing."

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby Hannover » 4 years 6 months ago (Wed May 13, 2015 6:20 pm)

There is so much wrong and so much that is simply impossible about the 'holocaust' storyline that it's difficult to choose just one.

- The fact that not a single verifiable excavation of the alleged enormous mass graves and it's alleged contents of Jew corpses can be shown is a real contender.
- The doctored / faked photos, complete with altered aerial photos, are right up there.
On & on it goes.

However, the entire 'gas chambers', Zyklon-B gassing process alleged at Auschwitz / Birkenau works for me as a single example. The claimed 'facts' about it simply refute themselves. That's why I always say that debunking the 'holocaust' storyline is just too easy. The absurd 'shoah' narrative is like a 'cry for help', it's really that ridiculous.

The following is from one of my previous posts.

- Hannover

Hannover wrote:Below I have posted what the 'holocaust' storyline claims about the alleged gassings at Auschwitz/Birkenau.
I have commented as the story moves along, in essence the claims are simply impossible.

Note that I have also added this model of what the inside of one of the 'gas chambers' is claimed to have looked like at end of an alleged gassing (up to 2000 per batch), an analysis of this model follows my text below.

Image

The two main 'gas chambers at Auschwitz / Birkenau were exactly the same, supposedly in Kremas II & III. So let's play along with the storyline. Up to 2000 Jews were supposedly gassed until dead, then they were supposedly taken via an elevator to the crematorium directly above.

Fact: as seen in the plans, this elevator is hand drawn, and is only 4 ft X 9 ft. How in the world could 2000 Jews have been loaded onto a 4 ft x 9 ft. hand drawn elevator in just a few minutes? Remember, the storyline says that the gassings and resultant cremations were non-stop for much of the period in question.

We supposedly have another batch of 2000 Jews waiting outside, supposedly being tricked into thinking they were about to receive showers. It would have been impossible to disentangle all the supposedly dead Jews and load 2000 of them onto to this postage stamp of an elevator, hoist them by hand up to the crematory 'ovens' in just minutes.
And this repeated process meant that the crematory ovens above would not have been capable of cremating them in the time alleged, which meant a build-up, a backlog occurred.
The storyline even states that the backlog of the to-be-cremated-gassed-Jews required stacking them outside. Once again, the alleged 2000 Jews were outside in full view of this laughable backlog claim, but supposedly they still thought they were getting 'showers'. Of course, timely aerial reconnaissance photos show nothing of the kind.

Furthermore, while the Jews were waiting outside, the storyline says that a SS man with a gas mask climbed upon the roof of the Kremas (only maybe 18 inches, or close to it, above the ground, Kremas II & III were largely underground) and dropped Zyklon-B granules into a container and lowered it down into the 'holes' in the roof, into the morgues which were supposedly converted into a gas chamber. The waiting 2000 Jews would have a clear view of the man on the roof's activity, yet these 2000 Jews were supposedly not concerned and still thought they were going to get innocent showers. The storyline is utterly ridiculous.

We're not done.

The Zyklon-B pesticide granules took/take hours to complete the outgassing of their cyanide load. The storyline says that this same SS man on the roof, supposedly wearing a highly visible gas mask, withdrew the container up from the 'gas chambers' in just minutes. Remember, the Zyklon-B pesticide granules were allegedly dumped and lowered into the 'gas chambers'. And since we know that the Zyklon-B pesticide would have taken hours to finish releasing it's cyanide load we have a situation where anyone in the entire area would have been vulnerable to gassing.
Yes, the storyline also says that there were vents which were used to remove the gas, but then we are still in a situation where the entire area is vulnerable to cyanide. Not to mention that this certainly would have been noticed by the alleged waiting 2000 Jews. And where does this SS man in a gas mask put the outgassing Zyklon-B pesticide granules which he has supposedly withdrawn, which would be releasing cyanide for hours?

The entire, bizarre story is unsustainable with even the slightest scrutiny. It's no wonder why Jewish supremacists trot out senile, lying 'survivors' (who wouldn't have even survived if the tall tales were true) for emotional impact. No wonder that there are Thought Crime laws against examining this absurd process. 'House of cards' is an understatement.


Hannover wrote:As for it being easy so easy to ventilate and move corpses, I also suggest:
'ONE PICTURE = 1000 WORDS'
ONE PICTURE = 1000 WORDS

ASMarques' initial post in that thread:
ASMarques wrote:*** THE GREAT GAS CHAMBER TRAFFIC JAM ***

This would be the one picture I would choose for a crash-course in Holocaust awareness for the intelligent young, lest they forget. Much better than collecting millions of buttons, soda tabs etc.


Image

This is the scale model of Krema II in the Auschwitz Museum, apparently placed behind a glass protection in order to prevent the small dolls being stolen by visitors.

Key to the image:

0 - Reflection of the window on the opposite side of the room.

1 - Underground gallery where many hundreds of victims at a time got undressed for the fake showers in room number 2. According to some Holocaust scholars, this gallery is also supposed to have had fake showers installed in it, just to confuse the undressing victims.

2 - Underground gas chamber, called simply "morgue" or "mortuary cellar" in all German documents and blueprints, in order to fool the future generations of scholars looking for the mysteriously vanished Jewish race. This is where many hundreds of victims were gassed at a time, in a round-the-clock mass murder industrial process by Zyklon B, the same product used to preserve human lives by killing lice (unless the witnesses are lying or very, very confused).

3 - Small elevator bringing daily many thousands of gassed corpses from the underground chamber to the crematories at ground level. Known to the fun-loving SS as "The Little Elevator that Could".

4 - Crematory ovens where many thousands of corpses a day were instantly vaporized, without even having to wait for some heat to dissipate before each door opening, contrary to the ovens in your run-of-the-mill crematory. Alas, the technology of the ovens was one of the best kept secrets in the Reich (unless they were ordinary ovens operated by miracle) and no one has been able to duplicate it.

5 - The famous chimneys, producing lots of smoke, contrary to the chimneys on your run-of-the-mill crematory that produce none. This is attributed to the twisted minds of the German guards who attempted to hide their crimes from the curious in the neighbourhood by using dense curtains of artificial smoke.

Now that you know which room is which, don't let anyone distract your gaze away from the image. Picture the gold-mining brigades, struggling through the corpse-scape, trying not to absorb any cyanide residues trapped among the still palpitating bodies, in order to perform their difficult tasks, such as inspecting body orifices, pulling teeth off, smoking cigarettes and eating sandwiches (according to the Höss testimony).

Then comes the most important part. Wait for a few seconds, take a deep breath, and picture the enormous round-the-clock traffic jam at point number 3, during the process of emptying the gas chamber of bodies, through the small elevator room, with or without (as you prefer) the folks next door waiting, soap in hand, for their shower.

Finally, ask your teacher to point the place, any place, where all those typhus dead were deposited while the live folks were being gassed in the gas chamber the Germans called "a morgue".

If you get a satisfactory answer, please let me know.

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby Review » 4 years 3 months ago (Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:56 pm)

Lack of physical evidence, which the exterminationists try to make up with by creating straw men, and ultra-complicated chains of proof
relying on these.

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby hermod » 4 years 3 months ago (Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:44 pm)

Beside numerous technical inconsistencies and a lack of physical evidence, I would answer: a matyrdom and/or imminent death for six million Jews had been a recurrent (if not, permanent) theme of Zionist atrocity propaganda from the very inception of Zionism as a political movement, as documented by revisionists and admitted by Zionist leader Moshe Shertok/Sharett later. So providential...

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"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby borjastick » 4 years 3 months ago (Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:23 am)

Holocaust_Zionist_Moshe_Sharett_Zionists_pre.jpg


So there it is, all encapsulated in one simple statement.

They admit that there was and is a jewish problem. In other words jews were a problem to have in your country because they are not liked. They are not liked because of their behaviour and that triggered the actions by Hitler in what became known as the holocaust.

They are and were not liked because of their lies and deceitful type of activities to those around them.

He then says the zionists predicted the holocaust decades before. That in itself is a hugely important statement. There is a world of difference between making an informed judgement on how a certain future event will turn out and what the zionists were doing. The zionists were lying wholescale about the threat to them by various parties from the first war onwards. They lied about what would happen and what they claimed had happened. They stoked the fires as best they could, in countries around the world, to gain sympathy for the zionist cause. They did not care if non zionist jews were hurt in this process as that would prove their point. In fact zionist to this very day do the same. Netanyahu is encouraged in his zionist beliefs when jews in europe or wherever get hurt or better still killed. They are expendable meat in the quest for total zionist control of all jews within a one state, apartheid controlled country called israel.

The zionists didn't predict the holocaust any more than i can predict next week's Euro Millions lottery numbers. They invented it and ensured it would happen and lied all the way to the bank -The West Bank- to get a zionist state.

Sadly Hitler played into their hands.

But it is impossible to ignore the fact that the people who Hitler wanted removed from Germany, to solve the very real Jewish Problem, have proved why he was so right to do so, by their actions in the zionist state of Israel.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby Atigun » 4 years 3 months ago (Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:37 pm)

Here is a quote from Wiernik's "A Year in Treblinka" concerning the size of the graves.

"I looked at the ditches around me. The dimensions of each ditch were 50 by 25 by 10 meters."

So, 10 meters or 32 feet deep. Rajchman stated that the graves were about four stories or closer to 40 feet deep. In his book, he also claims that there was at least one grave large enough to contain 250,000 bodies.

I also find it curious that the Germans made no effort to transport the excavated material away from the graves. Treblinka was supposedly a top secret extermination camp. The original plan was to bury all of the victims so why would the Germans leave huge stockpiles of excavated material piled up at the grave site? Wouldn't that be akin to posting a huge sign saying, "This is where we buried the Jews?" The testimony about Treblinka is so wildly inconsistent and contradictory that it's impossible to put together a coherent narrative for it.

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 4 years 2 months ago (Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:26 pm)

Treblinka is a major part of the holocaust (myth) and it's true that from the most basic premise of what supposedly happened there, down to the (ridiculous) details, any thinking person can see it's false. It's easier and clearer to explain and convince the falsity of Treblinka than it is Auschwitz.

But one other feature is nobody believes in the holocaust because of Treblinka. They believe in the holocaust for other reasons: The photos, the documentaries, the fictional adaptations, and because they've been told since childhood, so that it's a self-evident fact.

So you're telling them about part of the story which they didn't know, and then telling why it's false. Meanwhile the reasons they do believe in the holocaust are more complex than Treblinka to explain why those things are not proof of the holocaust.

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby Atigun » 4 years 2 months ago (Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:41 am)

Point taken, CCS. It's difficult to overcome the beliefs of someone conditioned practically from birth with the, "The poor, innocent, sufferink Jews vs. the eeevul, anti Semitic Narziswhowantedtokillsixmillionjews" meme.

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 2 months ago (Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:53 am)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:Treblinka is a major part of the holocaust (myth) and it's true that from the most basic premise of what supposedly happened there, down to the (ridiculous) details, any thinking person can see it's false. It's easier and clearer to explain and convince the falsity of Treblinka than it is Auschwitz.

But one other feature is nobody believes in the holocaust because of Treblinka. They believe in the holocaust for other reasons: The photos, the documentaries, the fictional adaptations, and because they've been told since childhood, so that it's a self-evident fact.

So you're telling them about part of the story which they didn't know, and then telling why it's false. Meanwhile the reasons they do believe in the holocaust are more complex than Treblinka to explain why those things are not proof of the holocaust.


Point very well made CCS. We can see this in the furore surrounding Jeremy Corbyn and Paul Eisen at the moment in the British media. The instant the words "Holocaust Denier" are uttered all rational thinking shuts down. Words like "vile" and "disgust" become the norm in a blitz of hatred from behind an impenetrable wall. You can't counter that kind of emotion with rational explanations.

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby neugierig » 4 years 2 months ago (Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:05 pm)

Yes, well put, CCS. “The Holocaust”, as we know it, is many things to many people. They are all weak, of course, but Believe takes care of that. My younger brother, and I’m sure I mentioned this before, did his pilgrimage to Auschwitz and the shoes were what settled the issue for him. He is well educated, BTW.

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 4 years 2 months ago (Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:40 pm)

Thanks all and congratulations Wilf on 300 well-crafted posts since 2002, before I was ever a revisionist.

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby neugierig » 4 years 2 months ago (Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:14 pm)

Thanks for the flowers, CCS, 300 eh? There should be some kind of reward, a guided tour of the inner sanctum of CODOH perhaps? :)

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Re: What is the Extermination Legend's Weakest Link?

Postby hermod » 4 years 2 months ago (Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:49 pm)

neugierig wrote:My younger brother, and I’m sure I mentioned this before, did his pilgrimage to Auschwitz and the shoes were what settled the issue for him. He is well educated, BTW.


Never let your brother enter the storage buildings of any charitable organization collecting shoes. He wouldn't survive the sight of so many undeniable proofs of a mass murder... :roll:
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915


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