Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

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Hannover
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Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby Hannover » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu May 14, 2015 8:11 pm)

Here he we have yet another of the endless inconvenient facts about Auschwitz.

According to the storyline all Jews unable to work at Auschwitz: sick, too old, too young, etc., were gassed.
Yet we know there was a German report of July 26, 1944 that indicates 1,426 Hungarian Jews had received surgeries at Auschwitz since their arrival in May, 1944.

If the claim is that they would be needed for labor, post-recovery, then why would the Germans supposedly gas enormous numbers of Hungarian Jews while at the very same time provide surgeries on large numbers of sick Hungarian Jews?

'The Germans desperately needed labor, but were destroying their labor force'?
Again, the 'holocaust' storyline collapses upon itself.

On 27 July 1944 the administration of Auschwitz compiled a statistical report about the prisoners "temporarily quartered in the camp of the Hungarian Jews.” The document shows that until that date 3,138 Hungarian Jews had received medical treatment at the camp hospital.1,426 of them had undergone surgical operations.42 [1] [b](According to the Holocaust story, a huge number of Hungarian Jews were gassed at Auschwitz between 15 May and 9 July 1944. While not a single one of these alleged gas chamber murders is confirmed by a German document, the medical treatment of 3,138 Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz until 27 July is indeed documented.)

[and then:]

As Polish historian Henry Swiebocki reports, no fewer than 11,246 prisoners underwent surgery at Auschwitz between 10 September 1942 and 23 February 1944. 43 [1] A very strange "extermination camp” indeed, is it not, Dr. Lindtner?

source:
The Moral and Intellectual Bankruptcy of a Scholar: Dr. Christian Lindtner and Holocaust Revisionism
by Jürgen Graf
http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... ionism.php

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurdity of the 'holocaust' narrative is the message.

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The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby Dresden » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu May 14, 2015 8:24 pm)

Hannover said:

"As Polish historian Henry Swiebocki reports, no fewer than 11,246 prisoners underwent surgery at Auschwitz between 10 September 1942 and 23 February 1944"

But how can we be sure they weren't all operated on by Joseph Mengele? :twisted: :(

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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby Thames Darwin » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu May 14, 2015 10:19 pm)

Hannover wrote:Here he we have yet another of the endless inconvenient facts about Auschwitz.

According to the storyline all Jews unable to work at Auschwitz: sick, too old, too young, etc., were gassed.
Yet we know there was a German report of July 26, 1944 that indicates 1,426 Hungarian Jews had received surgeries at Auschwitz since their arrival in May, 1944.

If the claim is that they would be needed for labor, post-recovery, then why would the Germans supposedly gas enormous numbers of Hungarian Jews while at the very same time provide surgeries on large numbers of sick Hungarian Jews?

'The Germans desperately needed labor, but were destroying their labor force'?
Again, the 'holocaust' storyline collapses upon itself.

On 27 July 1944 the administration of Auschwitz compiled a statistical report about the prisoners "temporarily quartered in the camp of the Hungarian Jews.” The document shows that until that date 3,138 Hungarian Jews had received medical treatment at the camp hospital.1,426 of them had undergone surgical operations.42 [1] [b](According to the Holocaust story, a huge number of Hungarian Jews were gassed at Auschwitz between 15 May and 9 July 1944. While not a single one of these alleged gas chamber murders is confirmed by a German document, the medical treatment of 3,138 Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz until 27 July is indeed documented.)

[and then:]

As Polish historian Henry Swiebocki reports, no fewer than 11,246 prisoners underwent surgery at Auschwitz between 10 September 1942 and 23 February 1944. 43 [1] A very strange "extermination camp” indeed, is it not, Dr. Lindtner?


I took a moment to look through Graf's sources -- particularly his footnote 42. He cites "Gosudarstevenny Arkhiv Rossiskoj Federatsii, Moscow, 7021-108-32, p. 76." Know what that is? The State Archive of the Russian Federation. In particular, it's the files on WWII and very specifically the files on Auschwitz from the Extraordinary State Commission.

You remember the Extraordinary Commission, right? Here, I'll help you:

'Extraordinary State Commissions' claims of 'Fascist Crimes'

Can you explain now what you find a citation from the Extraordinary State Commission believable now when you didn't four years ago? Are Soviet sources reliable or not?

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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby Hannover » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu May 14, 2015 10:51 pm)

Thames Darwin said:
I took a moment to look through Graf's sources -- particularly his footnote 42. He cites "Gosudarstevenny Arkhiv Rossiskoj Federatsii, Moscow, 7021-108-32, p. 76." Know what that is? The State Archive of the Russian Federation. In particular, it's the files on WWII and very specifically the files on Auschwitz from the Extraordinary State Commission.

You remember the Extraordinary Commission, right? Here, I'll help you:

'Extraordinary State Commissions' claims of 'Fascist Crimes'

Can you explain now what you find a citation from the Extraordinary State Commission believable now when you didn't four years ago? Are Soviet sources reliable or not?

Ha! I knew this would drag you out of hiding after the beat down that Mulegino gave you at:
http://www.unz.com/comments/commenter/Mulegino1/

However, note that the citation from the communist archives is taken from a German document, not one conjured up by the always laughable "Extraordinary State Commissions' claims of 'Fascist Crimes".

Next.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri May 15, 2015 12:39 am)

Hi Steve F: where is that disturbing and gruesome picture from?

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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby Dresden » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri May 15, 2015 1:27 am)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme asked:

"Hi Steve F: where is that disturbing and gruesome picture from?"

I got it from Yahoo search under "Joseph Mengele Angel of death" -- IMAGES

You can find it on Google search -- IMAGES, too.

The picture is captioned "Joseph Mengele Angel of death" - German SS officer and physician., but of course that's not Mengele in the picture.
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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby Breker » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri May 15, 2015 10:24 am)

Image
The picture is captioned "Joseph Mengele Angel of death" - German SS officer and physician., but of course that's not Mengele in the picture.

And those are not real people near him, whomever he is. Let's call him 'Alexei Whomeverov'.
We do find the paper mache arts & crafts statues & mummy an entertaining touch. Why would the "most documented event in history" require faked up photos?
Massive numbers of surgeries for sick Jews, "Auschwitz was a death camp". Huh?
B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby Mulegino1 » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri May 15, 2015 11:22 am)

Thames Darwin wrote:
Hannover wrote:Here he we have yet another of the endless inconvenient facts about Auschwitz.

According to the storyline all Jews unable to work at Auschwitz: sick, too old, too young, etc., were gassed.
Yet we know there was a German report of July 26, 1944 that indicates 1,426 Hungarian Jews had received surgeries at Auschwitz since their arrival in May, 1944.

If the claim is that they would be needed for labor, post-recovery, then why would the Germans supposedly gas enormous numbers of Hungarian Jews while at the very same time provide surgeries on large numbers of sick Hungarian Jews?

'The Germans desperately needed labor, but were destroying their labor force'?
Again, the 'holocaust' storyline collapses upon itself.

On 27 July 1944 the administration of Auschwitz compiled a statistical report about the prisoners "temporarily quartered in the camp of the Hungarian Jews.” The document shows that until that date 3,138 Hungarian Jews had received medical treatment at the camp hospital.1,426 of them had undergone surgical operations.42 [1] [b](According to the Holocaust story, a huge number of Hungarian Jews were gassed at Auschwitz between 15 May and 9 July 1944. While not a single one of these alleged gas chamber murders is confirmed by a German document, the medical treatment of 3,138 Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz until 27 July is indeed documented.)

[and then:]

As Polish historian Henry Swiebocki reports, no fewer than 11,246 prisoners underwent surgery at Auschwitz between 10 September 1942 and 23 February 1944. 43 [1] A very strange "extermination camp” indeed, is it not, Dr. Lindtner?


I took a moment to look through Graf's sources -- particularly his footnote 42. He cites "Gosudarstevenny Arkhiv Rossiskoj Federatsii, Moscow, 7021-108-32, p. 76." Know what that is? The State Archive of the Russian Federation. In particular, it's the files on WWII and very specifically the files on Auschwitz from the Extraordinary State Commission.

You remember the Extraordinary Commission, right? Here, I'll help you:

'Extraordinary State Commissions' claims of 'Fascist Crimes'

Can you explain now what you find a citation from the Extraordinary State Commission believable now when you didn't four years ago? Are Soviet sources reliable or not?


Soviet sources are only reliable insofar as they can be corroborated by physical or parallel documentary evidence. For example, we know with 100 percent certainty that Jewish internees at Auschwitz-Birkenau received medical care. We know that there was a maternity hospital at Auschwitz-Birkenau, and that children - even Jewish children - were born there. We know from the photographs of the camp hospital taken during the "liberation" of the camp that elderly Jewish inmates received medical care. Therefore, if Soviet documents corroborate what is already known from other sources - physical evidence and documentary sources - they can be considered credible.

Surgery at a hospital is not in the same league as a homicidal steam chamber or a pedal driven brain bashing machine.

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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri May 15, 2015 11:53 am)

Mulegino wrote
Surgery at a hospital is not in the same league as a homicidal steam chamber or a pedal driven brain bashing machine.


For me the surgery is almost bigger. Because if you accept that there was false propaganda at a camp, then there is still the question of "what really happened a this camp?"

I wish we had a photo of this German document.

Let's suppose that the Germans need the Jews for their labor. It's preposterous but let's suppose that. Then someone who needs surgery is no longer fit for work and goes to the gas chamber and they are replaced by the newest fit person on the most recent train arrival.

It's very much Michael Shermer's "convergence of evidence" concept, except that it points to the assertion that Auschwitz gassings are a myth.

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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby Hannover » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri May 15, 2015 7:56 pm)

CCS:
I wish we had a photo of this German document.

Clearly the author, Juergen Graf, has seen and perhaps copied this document, I suggest contacting him about it.
It's veracity is confirmed separately by a Henry Swiebocki, as previously quoted:
Henry Swiebocki reports, no fewer than 11,246 prisoners underwent surgery at Auschwitz between 10 September 1942 and 23 February 1944

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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 4 years 10 months ago (Sat May 16, 2015 7:42 am)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:Mulegino wrote
Surgery at a hospital is not in the same league as a homicidal steam chamber or a pedal driven brain bashing machine.


For me the surgery is almost bigger. Because if you accept that there was false propaganda at a camp, then there is still the question of "what really happened a this camp?"

I wish we had a photo of this German document.


Graf published it in Rudolf's Dissecting the Holocaust:


[...] a great quantity of documents relating to the medical care of inmates have survived even for Auschwitz, the best-known of the alleged extermination camps. For example, a report on the medical treatment of 3,138 Hungarian Jewish internees was drawn up on June 28, 1944, – when the ‘gas chambers’ were allegedly being operated at full capacity – establishes precisely the illnesses for which the persons concerned are to be treated: [55]

“Surgical cases 1426
Diarrhea 327
Constipation 253
Angina 79
Diabetes mell. 4
Weak heart 25
Scabies 62
Pneumonia 75
Flu 136
Intertrig. [sore spots] 59,268
Other 449
Infectious diseases:
Scarlet fever 5
Mumps 16
Measles 5
Eryspel 5”

[...]

55. Gosudarstvenny Arkhiv Rossiskoi Federatsii (GARF), Moscow, 7021-108-32, p. 76; see illustration on next page.

[...]

meds.png
"National Socialist Concentration Camps: Legend and Reality" by Juergen Graf, in Germar Rudolf (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust. The Growing Critique of ‘Truth’ and ‘Memory’, pp. 293-294.
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/01-dth.pdf
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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby laapatti » 4 years 10 months ago (Sat May 16, 2015 10:55 am)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:Graf published it in Rudolf's Dissecting the Holocaust:


Too bad he forgot to show the part where it is said the inmates mentioned are Jews, let alone Hungarian ones.

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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby Hannover » 4 years 10 months ago (Sat May 16, 2015 12:39 pm)

laapatti wrote:
TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:Graf published it in Rudolf's Dissecting the Holocaust:


Too bad he forgot to show the part where it is said the inmates mentioned are Jews, let alone Hungarian ones.

laapatti has now resorted to the classic garbage in, garbage out argument.

Knowing the entire 'selections' and 'gassing of Jews' is easily refuted scientifically impossible nonsense, the document necessarily lists Jews, of which thousands were from Hungary at that time.
There is no proof that Jews were excluded from surgeries and medical treatment, quite the contrary.

garbage : Jews were gassed.

garbage out: They could not have received surgeries or medical treatment since they were going to be gassed.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby laapatti » 4 years 10 months ago (Sat May 16, 2015 1:19 pm)

Hannover wrote:Knowing the entire 'selections' and 'gassing of Jews' is easily refuted scientifically impossible nonsense, the document necessarily lists Jews, of which thousands were from Hungary at that time.


Necessarily this, necessarily that. What is stated in your OP, "1,426 Hungarian Jews had received surgeries", does not come clear from the photo. What this photo of a document tells, or actually photo of a part of some document, is that 1426 inmates have received surgeries. If we have here "the most easily debunked narrative", then there is no need to embellish things.

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Re: Why provide surgeries for Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz?

Postby Hannover » 4 years 10 months ago (Sat May 16, 2015 4:23 pm)

laapatti wrote:
Hannover wrote:Knowing the entire 'selections' and 'gassing of Jews' is easily refuted scientifically impossible nonsense, the document necessarily lists Jews, of which thousands were from Hungary at that time.


Necessarily this, necessarily that. What is stated in your OP, "1,426 Hungarian Jews had received surgeries", does not come clear from the photo. What this photo of a document tells, or actually photo of a part of some document, is that 1426 inmates have received surgeries. If we have here "the most easily debunked narrative", then there is no need to embellish things.

So, obviously you have no proof for the impossible 'gas chambers' and you have no proof that 'Jews never received surgery / medical attention', but you wish everyone would forget about that lack of proof and proceed from there. Like I said: garbage in, garbage out.
And, there is no proof that Graf's statement about the above document referring to Hungarian Jews is incorrect, consequently your point is necessarily invalid.

In addition, from the Auschwitz archives themselves, as shown in
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n4p-4_Graf.html#2 :
we have:

Factual or documentary proof for a German policy to exterminate Europe's Jews, or for the existence of homicidal gas chambers, simply does not exist. On the contrary, the huge amount of wartime German documents not only provides no proof for the existence of an extermination policy, they point to the contrary. To cite just one example: German wartime documents in the archives of the Auschwitz State Museum in Poland show that 15,706 wartime camp prisoners, nearly all of them Jewish, received medical care at the hospital of the Auschwitz III (Monowitz) camp between July 1942 and June 1944. Of these prisoners, 766 died in the hospital, while the rest of them were released.[note 2] This fact simply doesn't square with an extermination policy.

2. Panstwowe Muzeum w Oswiecimiu (Auschwitz State Museum archives), Syg. DAuI-III-5/1, 5/2, 5/3, 5/4.

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