Operation Reinhard(t) camps & others / Burden of Proof

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Operation Reinhard(t) camps & others / Burden of Proof

Postby comrade seinfeld » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:30 pm)

While doing some research into the Korherr Report I came across the following link which should be disturbing from a revisionist perspective.

http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp? ... tegoryid=2

http://snipurl.com/5j1c

Of course, it will be apparent that this is a blatant Zionist site, and so anything will have to be looked at askance. For instance, the number of 1,274,166 Jews, which is in accordance with the Korherr Report (the details of which I will give below), is said in this link to have been murdered at the Operation Reinhard camps, and at Majdanek. However, could it be the case that these radio intercepts were simply making reference to the numbers of Jews actually shipped to these camps, for whatever reason, and that, in accordance with the official "Holocaust" narrative, it is assumed that they were murdered there, in this JTA report?

I have heard of radio intercepts by the British in regard to the Einsatzgruppen, which is bad enough in terms of numbers supposedly killed (both Jews and non-Jews), but this is the first time that I have heard of radio intercepts in relation to the numbers allegedly murdered in death camps. Even if there were radio messages between the German camps and official headquarters in Germany it would be hardly likely that they would be explicit about anything relating to genocide, if such was the case, since surely they would realise that they could be intercepted.

The Korherr Report:
http://www.adolfhitler.ws/lib/genocide/Korherr.html

The following numbers were siftedthrough the camps in the General government ............. 1,274,166 Jews
through the camps in the Warthegau..... 145,301 Jews

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:08 pm)

:) Nothing is mentioned about the form of execution.There is also a statment that says Holocaust deniers have always concentrated on Auschwitz,and not other camps(this is not true)>

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:27 pm)

:? There are some questions about this document I'd like to add.How do we know it's valid?Shouldn't there be testing as to it's validity?Faked photos and documents have been used in the past,why should this one be genuine?Lipstadt seems to be in on this as well,Citing because it was typed on the Fuehrer typewriter,it is proof that Hitler knew of the alleged final solution,wich shold be helpful to Lipstadt.Doesn't she have another upcoming trial with Irving?I think this document needs to be examined.

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Operation Reinhard camps & others / Burden of Proof

Postby comrade seinfeld » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:30 am)

I have in fact found a site ( http://www.vho.org/tr/2002/4/tr12razor.html ) dealing with the subject, which more or less confirms what I thought. This site leads to further links, the most important of which I think is at http://www.fpp.co.uk/Letters/History/Mills270102.html

As far as the Operation Reinhard camps are concerned, however, while there is really no proof either way whether or not the Jewish arrivals were exterminated, it is more likely that it is assumed that they were exterminated, unless it somehow can be demonstrated in concrete terms that these camps were only transit camps moving the Jews further east. While revisionists will say that there is no evidence of mass graves, it is also believed that the Germans destroyed the physical evidence of such, so there is something of a stalemate in this regard.

I would think that the only way out of this dilemma is for more emphasis of demographic studies, in terms of finding out where the Jews were and where they went, which would be very difficult and complex, as it would entail collating all kinds of demographic data in terms of time and space. Even with the advantage of advanced computer technology such a project would probably be beyond the means of anything short of an international task force with United Nations support, which is clearly Utopian at the present time.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:00 am)

The Reinhard Camps have been covered pretty well here, individually and collectively, ex.: search 'Reinhard' or 'Sobibor', 'Majdanek' etc.

a typical thread from this Forum:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=465

conrade seinfeld said:
As far as the Operation Reinhard camps are concerned, however, while there is really no proof either way whether or not the Jewish arrivals were exterminated, it is more likely that it is assumed that they were exterminated, unless it somehow can be demonstrated in concrete terms that these camps were only transit camps moving the Jews further east. While revisionists will say that there is no evidence of mass graves, it is also believed that the Germans destroyed the physical evidence of such, so there is something of a stalemate in this regard.

Not only is there no physical evidence...pits which cannot be obliterated, no techically possible 'gas chambers' as alleged, but the so called 'eyewitnesses' have been shown to be liars, every single one. There are no documents that corroborate the allegations. Take note that Witte's silly 'document' has been utterly undressed, as was posted:
http://www.vho.org/tr/2002/4/tr12razor.html

Naturally the duplicitous article initially cited doesn't even show the real document, and for good reason.

No, Revisionists do not have anything to 'prove', we've shot down all the assertions without fail and the Believers are at a loss (short of lying, which is the norm for them) to produce evidence for their lies. The onus is upon the accusers to support their accusations; they have not, they cannot.

As for Korherr, he himself refutes the absurd assertions about his statistics.

Korherr letter to Der Spiegel, n.28, 7/1977, p72-74:

The well-known, racially persecuted writer H.G. Adler, previously resident in Prague, now in London, wrote in the foreword to the second edition to his extraordinary book Theresienstadt 1941-1945 in 1960:
"It has definitely been determined that the designation of Dr. Korherr as SS-statistician...is not true, because he never belonged to the SS and has been rehabilitated insofar as his behaviour in the National Socialist years is concerned."

Unfortunately, Der Spiegel is publishing the claim of the English historian Irving that in the spring of 1942, at Himmler's order, I calculated the number of Jewish victims. In fact, these figures along with the text were delivered to me in completed form by the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) with the order that not one word or figure was to be changed.

The statement that I had claimed in this regard that more than a million Jews had died as a result of special treatment in the camps in German-occupied Poland and in the Warthegau is also incorrect. I have to protest against the word "died" in this context.

It was precisely the term "special treatment" (sonderbehandlung) that motivated me to inquire of the RSHA by telephone what this term meant. I received the answer that it referred to Jews who would be settled in the District of Lublin.
Dr. Richard Korherr
Braunschweig

Nr. 28, July 1977, p. 72-74, Der SPIEGEL, an article commenting on the controversy surrounding David Irving's book "Hitler's War" under the title : HITLER -- Kecke Revision.
Korherr's letter appears among a series of reactions ("Hitler gegen Irving") by people like Robert M. W. Kempner or the historians John Toland and Hans-Heinrich Wilhelm An English translation of the letter was presented during Udo Walendy's testimony at the Zündel trial 1988.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby David » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 pm)

Hannover,
You beat around the bush. Please address Comrad Seinfeld's point:

"it is more likely that it is assumed that they were exterminated, unless it somehow can be demonstrated in concrete terms that these camps were only transit camps moving the Jews further east."

Also please provide evidence for your statement: "the so called 'eyewitnesses' have been shown to be liars, every single one."

Finally, why don't revisionists have transportation/emigration documents proving where the millions of jews, once in Europe, ended up?

David

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:59 pm)

David said:
You beat around the bush. Please address Comrad Seinfeld's point:

"it is more likely that it is assumed that they were exterminated, unless it somehow can be demonstrated in concrete terms that these camps were only transit camps moving the Jews further east."

Gee David, try reading my posts:
Not only is there no physical evidence...pits which cannot be obliterated, no techically possible 'gas chambers' as alleged ..... There are no documents that corroborate the allegations. Take note that Witte's silly 'document' has been utterly undressed, as was posted:
http://www.vho.org/tr/2002/4/tr12razor.html

Given that there is no evidence for 'extermination' then they necessarily were sent to other camps. Logic 101.

David said:
Also please provide evidence for your statement: "the so called 'eyewitnesses' have been shown to be liars, every single one."

OK, which so called 'eyewitness' do you want to talk about and what did they say?

David said:
Finally, why don't revisionists have transportation/emigration documents proving where the millions of jews, once in Europe, ended up?

We don't need them as their is no evidence that the Jews in question were murdered. Logic 101.

for more, again:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=465

Regards, Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Hektor » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:37 pm)

Hannover wrote:...
As for Korherr, he himself refutes the absurd assertions about his statistics.

Korherr letter to Der Spiegel, n.28, 7/1977, p72-74:

The well-known, racially persecuted writer H.G. Adler, previously resident in Prague, now in London, wrote in the foreword to the second edition to his extraordinary book Theresienstadt 1941-1945 in 1960:
"It has definitely been determined that the designation of Dr. Korherr as SS-statistician...is not true, because he never belonged to the SS and has been rehabilitated insofar as his behaviour in the National Socialist years is concerned."

Unfortunately, Der Spiegel is publishing the claim of the English historian Irving that in the spring of 1942, at Himmler's order, I calculated the number of Jewish victims. In fact, these figures along with the text were delivered to me in completed form by the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) with the order that not one word or figure was to be changed.

The statement that I had claimed in this regard that more than a million Jews had died as a result of special treatment in the camps in German-occupied Poland and in the Warthegau is also incorrect. I have to protest against the word "died" in this context.

It was precisely the term "special treatment" (sonderbehandlung) that motivated me to inquire of the RSHA by telephone what this term meant. I received the answer that it referred to Jews who would be settled in the District of Lublin.
Dr. Richard Korherr
Braunschweig

Nr. 28, July 1977, p. 72-74, Der SPIEGEL, an article commenting on the controversy surrounding David Irving's book "Hitler's War" under the title : HITLER -- Kecke Revision. ....

It should be noted that Holocaustians do make a lot about a letter allegedly written to Korherr telling him not to use the term "Sonderbehandlung" and instead word his report differently:
Image
http://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/korh ... immler.php

In that light the wording of Korherr's letter to "Der Spiegel" is quite interesting:


Der SPIEGEL, Nr. 31, 25. Juli 1977, S. 12 :




DER bekannte, rassisch verfolgte Schriftsteller H. G. Adler, früher in Prag, jetzt in London, hat 1960 im Vorwort zur zweiten Auflage seines außerordentlichen Buches "Theresienstadt 1941--1945" geschrieben: "Es sei auch ausdrücklich festgestellt, daß die Bezeichnung Herrn Dr. Korherrs als 'SS-Statistiker' ... nicht stimmt, da er der SS nie angehörte und für sein Verhalten in den Jahren des Nationalsozialismus rehabilitiert ist."

Der SPIEGEL veröffentlicht leider die Behauptung des englischen Historikers Irving, ich hätte im Frühjahr 1943 auf Himmlers Order die Zahl der Opfer des Judentums berechnet. Tatsächlich wurden diese Angaben vom Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) fix und fertig samt Text mir geliefert mit der Auflage, keine Zahl und kein Wort ändern zu dürfen.

Die Angabe, ich hätte dabei auch aufgeführt, daß über eine Million Juden in den Lagern des Generalgouvernements und Warthegaus durch Sonderbehandlung gestorben seien, ist ebenfalls unzutreffend. Ich muß gegen das Wort "gestorben" in diesem Zusammenhang protestieren.

Es war gerade das Wort "Sonderbehandlung", das mich zu der telephonischen Rückfrage beim RSHA veranlaßte, was dieses Wort zu bedeuten habe. Ich bekam die Antwort, es handle sich um Juden, die im Bezirk Lublin angesiedelt würden.

Braunschweig

Dr. Richard Korherr
http://fpp.co.uk/History/General/Korher ... 50777.html
Note that Dr. Korherr does say he discussed the matter with them telephonically and not in writing. He also doesn't mention a letter written on that matter to him, let alone that they instructed him not to use the term Sonderbehandlung. So I have my doubts about that alleged letter to Korherr.

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Postby KostasL » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri May 01, 2009 4:36 am)

David wrote:Hannover,
You beat around the bush. Please address Comrad Seinfeld's point:

"it is more likely that it is assumed that they were exterminated, unless it somehow can be demonstrated in concrete terms that these camps were only transit camps moving the Jews further east."

Also please provide evidence for your statement: "the so called 'eyewitnesses' have been shown to be liars, every single one."

Finally, why don't revisionists have transportation/emigration documents proving where the millions of jews, once in Europe, ended up?

David


Case 1 :
If you were accused of murdering me and then the other day some people including you, see me quite alive and healthy, then what document would you need to prove you are innocent ? :oops:
If presenting evidence and claiming that i am alive and healthy was an additional crime for you and no exoneration, how would it feel like ? :oops:
If a bunch of filthy liers "eyewitnesses" insisted in accusing you, how would it feel like ? :oops:
If honest eyewitnesses, who saw me alive and healthy, were persecuted and prosecuted, smeared, threatened and lynched, how would it feel like ? :oops:
If i showed before you mocking you, how would it feel like ? :oops:

Case 2 :
Did the revisionists round up all important ww2 documents (german, allied, soviet or other) or was it the holocaust inventors and promoters that did so ? :oops:
Did the revisionists lock up documents in their archives, denying access or was it the holocaust inventors and promoters that did so ? :oops:
Did the revisionists limit access to the documents in their possesion or was it the holocaust inventors and promoters that did so ? :oops:

If people still insist doubting about the truth, it is their own problem or shame. :oops: :oops: :oops:

P.S. i didn't realize David posted that so long ago but still my post seems diachronic. :wink:
When you realize that the Holocaust is a LIE, then all of a sudden, ALL your questions, ALL bizarre and strange things, disappear, and ALL things make sense, at last.

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Re: Operation Reinhard camps & others / Burden of Proof

Postby cold beer » 6 years 10 months ago (Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:35 am)

comrade seinfeld wrote:I have in fact found a site ( http://www.vho.org/tr/2002/4/tr12razor.html ) dealing with the subject, which more or less confirms what I thought. This site leads to further links, the most important of which I think is at http://www.fpp.co.uk/Letters/History/Mills270102.html

As far as the Operation Reinhard camps are concerned, however, while there is really no proof either way whether or not the Jewish arrivals were exterminated, it is more likely that it is assumed that they were exterminated, unless it somehow can be demonstrated in concrete terms that these camps were only transit camps moving the Jews further east. While revisionists will say that there is no evidence of mass graves, it is also believed that the Germans destroyed the physical evidence of such, so there is something of a stalemate in this regard.

Wait a second, let me see if I can understand the logic here.
Lacking any evidence of mass murder at these camps, we should assume that it took place unless it can be proved otherwise?
Isn't that the exact opposite of the burden of proof in western society?


comrade seinfeld wrote:I would think that the only way out of this dilemma is for more emphasis of demographic studies, in terms of finding out where the Jews were and where they went, which would be very difficult and complex, as it would entail collating all kinds of demographic data in terms of time and space. Even with the advantage of advanced computer technology such a project would probably be beyond the means of anything short of an international task force with United Nations support, which is clearly Utopian at the present time.

If what you say is true regarding the difficulty of tracking these people then how was the death count of 6 million arrived at?
Didn't they have proper demographics to conclude that 6 million had been holocausted?

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Re: Operation Reinhard camps & others / Burden of Proof

Postby borjastick » 6 years 10 months ago (Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:57 am)

Forget the six million for any realistic purposes, it is a total myth.

What he is really saying is that they cannot prove the claims so we, revisionists, should be carrying the burden of proof as it is us who doubt things.

Meanwhile in the real world if there is no proof and enough doubt about the extermination camps he thinks it is best assumed that the mass murder claims are correct. He has conveniently forgotten that in any murder investigation it is a good starting point to have a corpse or two, or in this case several million. The 'where did they go argument' is another ruse for the traditionalists to hide behind.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Operation Reinhard camps & others / Burden of Proof

Postby cold beer » 6 years 10 months ago (Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:36 pm)

Circular logic
It reminds me of that Abbott and Costello routine about who's on 1st base

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Re: Operation Reinhard camps & others / Burden of Proof

Postby Moderator » 4 years 6 months ago (Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:07 pm)

I have resurrected this thread and added to the thread title '& others / burden of proof' since there are interesting opinions on that subject here. I suggest reviewing the posts before commenting.

a few associated threads:
'J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go then?''
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272

'German Labour camps - shocking truth decrypts / Jew transits'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7298

'One Simple Reply to "Where did they go, then?"'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8921

Thanks, M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: Operation Reinhard camps & others / Burden of Proof

Postby Hannover » 4 years 6 months ago (Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:07 am)

I like Cold Beer's response:
Lacking any evidence of mass murder at these camps, we should assume that it took place unless it can be proved otherwise?
Isn't that the exact opposite of the burden of proof in western society?

Yes it is. And it's utterly illogical to make such an assumption.
But such fallacies are common when racist Zionist / Jewish supremacists run wild.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Operation Reinhard camps & others / Burden of Proof

Postby Atigun » 4 years 6 months ago (Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:48 am)

Exterminationists have stated unequivocally that nobody but a few escapees left Treblinka alive. See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrYm4lLbLf8

From the USC Shoah Foundation. It would seem that the exterminationists are hoist by their own petard.


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