Dachau

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Dachau

Postby David » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:10 pm)

2 Questions:

Were any Dachau guards said to confess to gassing jews? I understand Dachau was recently found not to be a death camp, so this would be very damning to the Holocaust story, since if there were confessions, one could say they were forced since they are proven incorrect.

Was Dachau ever said to be an extermination camp at Nuremburg, and were camp gaurds hanged for this?

Thank you.
David

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:33 pm)

At Nuremberg, perjurer Blaha said about Dachau in a sworn statement:
"There were numerous executions by gas, executions by firearms, and by injections, in the camp. The gas chamber was finished in 1944, and I called Dr. Rascher to examine the first victim. Of the eight or nine persons in the chamber, three were still alive; the others seemed to be dead. Their eyes were red and their faces bloated. Numerous detainees were subsquently killed in the same manner." IMT, vol. V, p. 198 (PS-3249).

and let's not forget this nugget:

The original U.S Army investigation after liberation, described the allged gas chamber as having a 10 ft ceiling beset with "brass fixtures" (Doc L-159, No 47 of 79th Congress, 1st Session (Exhibit NO. USA-222; IMT, XXXVII, p.621)). The ceiling today is 7.6 ft and the fake showerheads are made of sheet metal.

and:
....in the files of the Hoover Library at Stanford, California, are the papers of British secret service (MI6) agent Captain S. Payne Best, who was captured by the Gestapo with fellow-agent Stevens in the famous Venlo Incident in May 1940.
Both were held for most of the war in Dachau concentration camp. After Stevens wrote a best-seller in which he laid it on thick and rotten about how they had been brutally tortured by the Nazis, Best wrote to him a letter (the carbon copy is in the Hoover manuscript collection) suggesting that he shut up, as both knew that they had been treated decently and well by their captors, and that there had not been the slightest maltreatment.

Let's not forget the atrocity/war crime by US troops as they arbitrarily executed scores of innocent Dachau guards who had surrendered.

for more:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=518

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby David » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:44 pm)

Hannover,
Were any Germans hanged because of Dachau testimonies?

Was there any fake paperwork describing the Dachau gas chambers?

Can you provide me a link where I can find info on your statement that Allies shot Dachau gaurds on site?

David

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:55 pm)

:) Wasn't there an inmate diary found at Dachau that stated something like,"Still in all,Dachau is a golden place.",or something to that effect.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:31 pm)

David asks:
Were any Germans hanged because of Dachau testimonies?

Yes, see ** below; though there weren't many left to be put on trial after the arbitrary murders of the guards by the Americans. There are photos of the murder site of these guards and info. at David Irving's site. It's not a particularily secret story anymore.

Was there any fake paperwork describing the Dachau gas chambers?

Yes, see ** below, and I gave you this source, again:
The original U.S Army investigation after liberation, described the alleged gas chamber as having a 10 ft ceiling beset with "brass fixtures" (Doc L-159, No 47 of 79th Congress, 1st Session (Exhibit NO. USA-222; IMT, XXXVII, p.621)). The ceiling today is 7.6 ft and the fake showerheads are made of sheet metal.

Again again, the International Military Tribunal show trials at Nuremberg contains perjured testimony about 'gas chambers' as briefly mentioned before.
also, see ** below.

another little gem:
Toward the end of World War II, I was a US Army captain on the staff of Ambassador Robert Murphy, political advisor to General Eisenhower. I was at Dachau about a month after it had been liberated, either the end of May or the beginning of June, 1945. There was no gas chamber there, nor did I see one in the process of construction. What did occur was that some higher authority in the American occupation government, whether a civilian or military, I don't know, decreed that a gas chamber should be built, which was subsequently done.
I was also at the Buchenwald camp a few days after it was liberated on April 11, 1945. There was a crematory there but no gas chamber.

Homer G. Richey
Charlottesville, Virginia
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n2_Letters.html


** This is a lengthy Dachau 'gas chambers' document list and info. about those put on trial.
http://www.codoh.com/gcgv/gcdachau2.html

The following is, I believe, a complete list of pretrial exhibits mentioning this "gas chamber", which was to be "proven" in the First Dachau Trial (trial of Martin Gottfried Weiss). The gas chamber accusation was dropped before trial. It is apparent that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers knew before November 15, 1945, that no gas chamber could function in the manner described, and that other stories of gas chambers functioning in a similar manner were not true.

**Yet a decision was made to continue this accusation in other trials for political reasons.**

(Microfilm pages 00005052):

Report of the Atrocities Committed at Dachau Concentration Camp. Vol. 1. War Crimes Investigation Team No. 6823. Signed by David Chavez Jr. Colonel, JAGD, 7 May 1945.

(Microfilm pages 0000713):

Exhibit F photograph of gas panel.

"S3 photograph of gas chamber

V2 plan of water and gas installations

V10 shower nozzle removed from gas chamber

V11 label removed from cans (Zyklon) found in or near gas chamber

Page 25 of "Chavez Report", 00089 of microfilm pages: "The new building had a gas chamber for executions... the gas chamber was labelled "shower room" over the entrance and was a large room with airtight doors and double glassed lights, sealed and gas proof. The ceiling was studded with dummy shower heads. A small observation peephole, double glassed and hermetically sealed was used to observe the conditions of the victims. There were grates in the floor. Hydrogen cyanide was mixed in the room below, and rose into the gas chamber and out the top vents. (Exhibit 34)

Dr. Blaha witnessed the first test of the gas chamber in the new crematorium in early 1944, and examined the 7 victims used. Two were killed in the first test, an experiment to determine the amount of gas needed to kill a person (Exhibit 5).

"Weight of general testimony shows that the gas chamber was developed successfully to get the desired results. Witness after witness mentions seeing living persons herded into the crematorium and never being seen again. When the chamber was not used it was because of the shortage of the materials to make the gas, the same reason for not using the crematorium continually, and certainly no change of heart on the part of the SS in charge. No witness can testify as an eye witness to an execution by gas except Dr. Blaha, because the crematorium and gas chamber was made up of condemned prisoners who lived in the crematorium yard and once in there, never left the area alive. Men picked for such duty knew that they were to be killed as persons too dangerous to the SS as possible future witnesses".

(Col. Chavez testified at trial on November 15, 1945, and made no mention of any gas chamber. There is no mention of any gas chamber in the testimony of Col. Lawrence Ball, another government expert witness. There is no mention of any gas chamber in the prosecution opening statement, summation, or judgement. No mention in the defence summations. No mention in the testimony, except for a few sentences in the testimony of Dr. Blaha. Not one of the forty defendants was asked a single question concerning any gas chamber. Dr. Blaha testified twice. In his second appearance as witness during prosecution "rebuttal", he also makes no mention of any gas chamber. The Chavez report was rewritten and introduced into evidence at Nuremberg as "proven fact", even though it was known to be untrue. (Documents 159L, 2430PS).

The existence of a gas chamber at Dachau was not upheld in the judgement at Nuremberg.

Page 56 of this same report, the "Chavez Report" (000120 of the microfilm pages, reel 1, M1174, National Archives):

"This new building also contained a gas chamber for execution... the gas chamber was labelled "shower room". The first test of a gas chamber was in 1944, when prisoners were used to determine the amount of gas required to kill a person".

000132: "(Diagrams) drawing of piping section above chamber, ventilator, galvanized piping, open into gas chamber. Insulated piping. Gas chamber... gas chamber. Dachau prison camp.

000133: "Grill covered inlets. Hinged door. Water (?) drains. Gas chamber. Dachau prison camp".

000134: "Vents. Ceiling. Gas Chamber. Dachau prison camp. Shower heads flush with ceiling".

000135: (Diagram) Gas Chamber. Gas tight doors. Wooden shed believed to contain pump or compressor (?). Piping system above chamber ceiling, dimensions of chamber 24' x 18' x 6'. Chamber constructed of smooth, paleyellow brick like refractory brick, with small cement joints. Elevation. Gas chamber. Dachau prison camp".

PreTrial Witness Interrogations and Other Exhibits.

000199: "In February 1945, 65 Jewish children... arrived in the camp..; the children started crying and said: Please don't put us into the gas chamber. When we replied there was no such thing as a gas chamber, they said: oh yes, our parents told us that we were going into another camp and that we would be put into a gas chamber. We repeated there was no such thing, but they answered: oh yes, oh yes, our father or mother, or uncle or cousin, ... were put into the gas chamber because they were Jews. The children were kept in the camp for 2 or 3 weeks and were sent to the extermination camp in Auschwitz. Even old and hardened prisoners who had witnessed great inhuman treatment were deeply moved by the sight of the children".

000204: "There was no gas chamber in the camp in working order (!). A gas chamber was being built in the crematorium and in January 1945, work was going on at a high speed. The chamber was soon completed except for the gas boiler (?). A railway worker who had to go in and out of the camp told me that a boiler had arrived at the Ostbanhof, Munich, from Auschwitz. But this boiler, together with many gas cylinders had been destroyed in an air raid.

000212: "The years 1940/43 seem to have been the worst period in Dachau and other similar camps. I was told by eyewitnesses of the mass extermination of Jews who were sent in a gas chamber 500 at a time..." report on Prison Camp conditions dictated by Captain P.M. Martinot, 23 May, 1945.

000248: "Another specific provision was for a crematorium of four ovens and one gas chamber (called "desinfection chamber") (!). I do not know whether this camp was ever built".

000250: "The most important building projects which were planned and executed during my presence were as follows:... one crematorium called "Barracke X" in the concentration camp at Dachau, containing six individual gas chambers (!) and 2 combustion ovens".

000277: "The Polish priests were compelled to build the well-known crematory and gas chambers (plural)... they were dragged by their legs to the chambers of death..."

000379: "Source said he visited a building that was designated as a shower room, but which in reality was a gas chamber".

000417: "The following Signal Corps photos are contained in 1222614 and have been retained in the War Crimes Office in Washington D.C. Gas Chambers (plural)".

000420: Photo of soldier in front of door reading "Gaszeit: (illegible) Vorsicht! Gas! Lebensgefahr! Nicht `ffnen!... Dachau Atrocity Camp: Gas Chambers (plural), conveniently located to the crematory, are examined by a 7th Army soldier. These are part of the horror chambers used by the Nazis before the 7th Army liberated the camp.

000445: "The following Signal Corps photos are contained in 12226 and have been retained in the War Crimes Office in Washington D.C.... (Gas Chamber)" (singular).

000455: "Photo... Yank examines fake showerhead in the gas chamber (singular) at the Dachau Concentration Camp. Located in the crematory, unknowing prisoners were brought into the shower room marked "showers". here they were stripped and after the door was closed, they were gassed".

000485: "Here also, there were gas chambers (plural) camouflaged as "showers" into which prisoners were herded under the pretext of bathing and the huge crematory ovens".

000486: "Inside as well as outside (?) were gas chambers (plural) with adjacent crematory ovens... almost 100 naked bodies were stacked neatly in the barren room with cement floors. They had come from a room on the left marked "Brausehad" for "shower bath". It really was a gas chamber (singular) a low ceilinged room about 30 feet square. After 15 or 20 were inside, the doors were firmly sealed and the faucets turned on and poison gas issued (!). Then the bodies were hauled into a room separating the gas chamber from the crematorium. There were four huge ovens with a huge flue leading to a smokeblackened stack".

000489: "The troops also discovered gas chambers, torture chambers and ovens".

000496: "We saw the original gas chambers, four huge cells (!) into which victims apparently were crowded and put to death. Later on this method was improved by construction of a large chamber with a jet in the ceiling, similar to showerbath sprinklers. The prisoners undressed in a room, where a man sat, with flowers on his desk, who gave them soap and a towel. Herded into the shower room, the gas was turned on while the operator watched its effect through a telescopic peephole".

000497: "Gas chamber executions".

000506: "Here one can see for oneself the lethal chamber where the people the Nazis doomed were gassed. It has imitation shower baths, installations with dummy sprinklers set in a pipeless ceiling (!), and gratings looking like water drains in the floor through which gas was sent" (So did it come through the floor or through the ceiling?).

000508: "Shower rooms' (plural again) where gas was poured (!) into chambers.

000509: "Jarolin (deputy camp commander at Dachau, defendant in Trial of Martin Gottfried Weiss)... said he thought they had gone to the gas chamber".

000513: "Gas chamber deaths at Belsen.

It was admitted by the prosecution that many inmates were mentally ill, had lost their minds, or were wandering around in a mental daze, yet their statements were accepted as "fact", no matter how contradictory. It was also admitted that Dachau had 6 hospitals and that 15,000 people died of disease in the last few months, and that emaciation is a symptom of dysentery. Defendants were convicted of "aiding and abetting in a common design", even if no accusations were made against them by inmates (case of Gretsch and Schoepp).


- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Dachau

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:59 am)

David wrote:Was Dachau ever said to be an extermination camp at Nuremburg, and were camp gaurds hanged for this?

Thank you.
David

Dachau Trial (15 Nov 1945 - 13 Dec 1945)
1. Martin Weiss : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
2. Michael Redwitz : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
3. Friedrich - Wilhelm Ruppert : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
4. Wilhelm Welter : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
5. Josef Jarolin : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
6. Rudolf - Heinrich Suttrop : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
7. Franz - Xaver Trenkle : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
8. Wilhelm Tempel : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
9. Engelbert - Valentin Niedermeyer : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
10. Hugo Lausterer : 10 Years Imprisonment
11. Josef Seuss : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
12. Kapo Fritz Becher : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
13. Leonhard - Anselm Eichberger : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
14. Alfred Kramer : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
15. Wilhelm Wagner : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
16. Sylvester Filleböck : The Death Sentence (Commutted to 10 Years Imprisonment)
17. Johann Kick : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
18. Vincenz Schöttl : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
19. Dr Fritz Hintermeyer : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
20. Albin Gretsch : 10 Years Imprisonment
21. Dr Wilhelm Witteler : The Death Sentence (Commutted to 20 Years Imprisonment)
22. Johann - Viktor Kirsch : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
23. Johann - Baptist Eichelsdorfer : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
24. Hans Aumeier : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th January 1948)
25. Otto Förschner : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
26. Kapo Emil - Erwin Mahl : The Death Sentence (Commutted to 15 Years Imprisonment)
27. Friedrich Wetzel : The Death Sentence (Commutted to 10 Years Imprisonment)
28. Walter - Adolf Lengleist : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
29. Dr Karl - Klaus Schilling : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
30. Johann Schöpp : 10 Years Imprisonment
31. Kapo Christof - Ludwig Knoll : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
32. Arno Lippmann : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
33. Dr Fridolin - Karl Puhl : The Death Sentence (Commutted to 10 Years Imprisonment) Hans Bayer : The Death Sentence (Commutted to 15 Years Imprisonment)
34. Franz Böttger : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 29th May 1946)
35. Fritz Degelow : The Death Sentence (Commutted to 20 Years Imprisonment)
36. Peter Betz : The Death Sentence (Commutted to 15 Years Imprisonment)
37. Otto Möll : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
38. Anton Endres : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
39. Otto Schulz : The Death Sentence (Commutted to 15 Years Imprisonment)
40. Simon Kiern : The Death Sentence (Executed on the 28th May 1946)
41. SS Dr Hans Eisele : The Death Sentence (Escaped Custody & Never Apprehended)

Forty-two ex-officials of this camp were tried by a U.S. military court at Dachau, All were found guilty, Thirty-Six of the defendants were sentenced to death on the 13th December 1945, of whom Twenty-Three were hanged on the 28th/29th May 1946, including the commandant, Martin Weiss and the camp doctor Karl Schilling, the rest to various terms of imprisonment.

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=324

fge

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End of a hoax in Dachau

Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:45 am)

This text may be of general interest in this context (see the original German text below):

End of a horror hoax

Now it happened that before the commemorative festival of this year a French commission appeared in Landsberg, that had the order to ditch dead and missed that should lie on this cemetery. They wanted to transport the bodies of the victims of the KZ Dachau into their French homeland. And they began to dig. They dug and dug, first at the surface and then deeper and deeper. But no dead bodies were found, no trace of bones was to be discovered. The entire so-called cemetery proved to be a hoax, an error or, as a despicable behaviour […] informers out of the time of the Auerbach’s and his accomplices. Confused and helplessly the French commission addressed itself to the responsible “Bavarian administration of the national locks, gardens and lakes”. This again asked the Landsberg mayor that looked after the ›graveyards‹ always yet in accordance with the American order. The mayor retrackted himself embarrassed and gave - to be sure not without escaping the disgrace - the secret direction let disappear that “cemetery Stoffersberg-south”.



Ende einer Greuellüge

Nun geschah es, daß vor dem Totengedenkfest dieses Jahres eine französische Kommission in Landsberg erschien, die den Auftrag hatte, die Toten und Vermißten auszugraben, die auf diesem Friedhof liegen sollten. Man wollte die Gebeine der Opfer des KZ-Lagers Dachau in ihre französische Heimat überführen. Und man fing an zu graben. Man grub und grub, erst an der Oberfläche und dann tiefer und tiefer. Aber kein Toter fand sich, keine Spur von Gebein war zu entdecken. Der ganze sogenannte Friedhof erwies sich als ein aufgelegter Schwindel, als ein Irrtum oder als eine Niederträchtigkeit pietätloser Denunzinanten aus der Zeit der Auerbach und seiner Komplicen. Bestürzt und ratlos wandte sich die französische Kommission an die zuständige bayerische Verwaltung der Staatlichen Schlösser, Gärten und Seen. Diese wiederum funkte zum Landsberger Landratsamt zurück, das immer noch gemäß der amerikanischen Order die ›Grabanlagen‹ baulich und gärtnerisch betreute. Das Landratsamt zog sich beschämt zurück und gab, allerdings nicht, ohne der Blamage zu entgehen, die heimliche Anweisung, den ›Friedhof‹ Stoffersberg-Süd verschwinden zu lassen.
Deutsche Hochschullehrer-Zeitung (später Deutschland in Geschichte und Gegenwart) 6(1) (1958), S. 28

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Postby Honest Abe » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:00 am)

Hannover wrote:

http://www.codoh.com/gcgv/gcdachau2.html

The following is, I believe, a complete list of pretrial exhibits mentioning this "gas chamber", which was to be "proven" in the First Dachau Trial (trial of Martin Gottfried Weiss). ...

000199: "In February 1945, 65 Jewish children... arrived in the camp..; the children started crying and said: Please don't put us into the gas chamber. When we replied there was no such thing as a gas chamber, they said: oh yes, our parents told us that we were going into another camp and that we would be put into a gas chamber. We repeated there was no such thing, but they answered: oh yes, oh yes, our father or mother, or uncle or cousin, ... were put into the gas chamber because they were Jews. The children were kept in the camp for 2 or 3 weeks and were sent to the extermination camp in Auschwitz. Even old and hardened prisoners who had witnessed great inhuman treatment were deeply moved by the sight of the children".



- Hannover


Among the other non-sequitors in the posted text, Auschwitz was abandoned by the Germans in January 1945, making deportation of children to same in February 1945 year rather unlikely.


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