Doubts about Tattoos

[TheBlackRabbitofInlé]

Elsewhere, actual proof that this photo, or the alternative version of it, is fake, has been compiled:



https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2244

[astro3]

Black Rabbit: "the [Gypsy camp] in Birkenau Section BIIe [right next to the football pitch], can we agreed that that really existed? "

Sure - http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... ocaust.php

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

The New York Times, between Jan 1, 1940 and April , 1945 has just one article that has the word "Auschwitz" and "tattooed" or "tattooing" or "tattoo."

Article: "TWO DEATH CAMPS PLACES OF HORROR: German Establishments for Mas Killings of Jews Described by Swiss" by Daniel T Brighham. July 6, 1944. page 6.

The two camps are Auschwitz and Birkenau. And article states "the execution and 'disposal' of 1,715,000 Jews were effected 'without a hitch."

So for tattooing? This is the first time anyone has heard about tattooing at Auschwitz in the New York Times, they read of two people who were there and fled "one with a five-figure numeral on his left leg and the the other with a six-numeral figure considerably above the 200,000 mark on his."

And women tattoos: "Women in the tattooing sheds were tattooed on their breasts, according to the same witness."

However, not many tattoo articles appeared after the war so much. My prediction was a lot would appear after the war.
By the way what color was the ink? Because a March 3, 1946 article has a refugee boy David Hoffman, 15 years old with tattoo 120148 tattooed in blue.

[Kingfisher]

CCS

This would be based on the Vrba-Wetzler report:

As a result of the coverage given to the report in the Swiss press, details began to appear elsewhere, including in The New York Times on 4 June, the BBC World Service on 15 June, and The New York Times on 20 June, which carried a 22-line story that 7,000 Jews had been "dragged to gas chambers in the notorious German concentration camps at Birkenau and Oświęcim [Auschwitz]." Daniel Brigham, the New York Times correspondent in Geneva, published a longer story on 3 July, "Inquiry Confirms Nazi Death Camps," and on 6 July a second, "Two Death Camps Places of Horror; German Establishments for Mass Killings of Jews Described by Swiss."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrba%E2%80%93Wetzler_report

If people were indeed being tattooed on the forearm on a routine basis over several years this report of tattooing the legs of men and the breasts of women is very odd. In particular, tattooing women's breasts smacks of propaganda. Given that people were escaping or being released from Auschwitz in large numbers there should not be this uncertainty.

Do we have any well-documented examples of an apparently genuine Auschwitz tattoo?

[TheBlackRabbitofInlé]

Black Rabbit: "the [Gypsy camp] in Birkenau Section BIIe [right next to the football pitch], can we agreed that that really existed? "

Sure - http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... ocaust.php

And that Gypsies really were given prisoners numbers being with 'Z'?

[TheBlackRabbitofInlé]

Two German documents which mention Auschwitz prisoner tattoos:

"Today around 14 o'clock, a large number of prisoners escaped from concentration camp Auschwitz II from the Sonderkommando (crematorium), mostly Jews. The prisoners were partly shot during the immediately started chase. The search operation is continued. Characteristics: close-cropped, tattooed number on the left forearm."

- Report of Auschwitz police on 7 October 1944, Bartosik, Bunt Sonderkommando, p. 32

"Russian POW Schenkarenko, Aleksander, born 10 October 1921 in Witowzy, admitted on 15 April 1944 from Stalag?, ID 12766, special characteristic: close-copped hair and tattooed number 11526 on the breast."

- Telex from Auschwitz concentration camp Auschwitz to RSHA and police stations of 8th October 1944, Bartosik, Bunt Sonderkommando, p. 34

Thanks to Hans Sortie for photographing the pages of Bartosik's book and the translations.


Before the Germans began tattooing at Auschwitz, they used to take three photos of prisoners. The AB museum apparently has approximately 39,150 sets of these photos.



Does anyone think these are also elaborate fakes?

What about the Lutwaffe and SS blood-group tattoos. Fakes, anyone?

[Hannover]

So we are shown one alleged example who was a Russian POW, is presumed to be male, and for one reason or another was tattooed on his breast. That hardly supports 'breast tattooing of women'.



- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.

[borjastick]

Does anyone think these are also elaborate fakes?

What about the Lutwaffe and SS blood-group tattoos. Fakes, anyone?

-Black Rabbit of Inle

BR I don't think the argument is about whether or not inmates were tattooed ever at all. I think it is more about the apparent randomness of it and the fact that until recently there has been little known about the actual process and the machine or whatever that was used. Added to this is the fact that it was of course never a national government-SS directive for all camps as it only ever happened in Auschwitz and for a short period.

The new agricultural tattoo blocks as announced by the museum don't seem very credible and the accounts of women being tattooed on their breast are just laughable.

As for the SS blood group tattoos they are disputed are they? Seems like a good idea to me. When I was a mad young man, as opposed to me now as a mad older man, I was a motorcycle racer. We were required to have our blood group on our leathers. Another good idea.

Just for a laugh I would love to get my blood group tattooed in my left armpit...

[TheBlackRabbitofInlé]

So we are shown one alleged example who was a Russian POW, is presumed to be male, and who for one reason or another was tattooed on his breast.

The reason why he, definitely a he, had the "tattooed number 11526 on the breast" seems fairly obvious to me: he had been held as a PoW at Auschwitz, a place where they had tattooed prisoner numbers on the breast of Russian PoWs.

Could you share with us the other reasons why you think he may have had this tattoo?

That hardly speaks of wide spread breast tattooing of women.

There was no "wide spread breast tattooing of women", it's an error caused by stupidity or deceit by the NYT in its reporting of the contents of the Vrba-Wetzler report, which actually says:

At the outset the numbers were tattooed on the left breast, but later, due to their becoming blurred, on the left forearm.

No specific mention of "women's breasts" there.



Photos of Soviet PoWs showing their Auschwitz breast tattoos are easily found:

[borjastick]

Both the above pictures show do it yourself tattoos, or at least administered by hand and not the block types as now claimed. I guess the system changed after these were taken. Pictures of Russian POWs at Auschwitz sort of give the lie to the mass murder claims don't you think? These guys may have been strong and able but the supposed hatred held by Germany and Russia would have led to these guys being holocausted and turned into soap and lampshades minutes after their arrival.

[Hannover]

Rabbit:

Could you share with us the other reasons why you think he may have had this tattoo?

No one said there were other reasons why he had been tattooed. Please read my post.

Rabbit:

There was no "wide spread breast tattooing of women", it's an error caused by stupidity or deceit by the NYT in its reporting of the contents of the Vrba-Wetzler report, which actually says:

Again, read my post. I removed "wide spread" before your reply. What I said was "That hardly supports 'breast tattooing of women'.", which it does not.

NYT:

"Women in the tattooing sheds were tattooed on their breasts, according to the same witness."

It says what it says. Your quoting another line which does not mention women does nothing to change that fact.

Rabbit:

Photos of Soviet PoWs showing their Auschwitz breast tattoos are easily found:

So some Soviet POWs got tattoos on their breasts. But photos of tattooed women's breasts are not so easily found.

So then, do you think women were tattooed on their breasts or not? If so, please support your claim.

Thanks, Hannover

[TheBlackRabbitofInlé]

It's you that needs to re-read my unedited post Hannover:

There was no "wide spread breast tattooing of women", it's an error caused by stupidity or deceit by the NYT in its reporting of the contents of the Vrba-Wetzler report, which actually says:

At the outset the numbers were tattooed on the left breast, but later, due to their becoming blurred, on the left forearm.

I don't really see how I can make than any clearer.

The NYT screwed up in its story about the Vrba-Wetzeler report.

That quote is from the VW report, not the NYT article (which I've not even seen, I'm relying on CCS's earlier post).

[Hannover]

Rabbit:

It's you that needs to re-read my unedited post Hannover:

Do you have a problem with editing posts, Rabbit? I happens all the time including by you, and I edited mine before you or anyone else responded. So that's on you, like I said, read what I post before misquoting me.

Rabbit:

"At the outset the numbers were tattooed on the left breast, but later, due to their becoming blurred, on the left forearm."

I don't really see how I can make than any clearer.

So you believe women were tattooed, but you provide no proof that women were tattooed as I requested. That will not do.

Again, I previously said:

So then, do you think women were tattooed on their breasts or not? If so, please support your claim.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.

[TheBlackRabbitofInlé]

So you believe women were tattooed, but you provide no proof that women were tattooed as I requested. That will not do.

Jesus wept!

You really do have serious reading comprehension issues Hannover. Try this:

I do not think Women were tattooed on the breast.

I have not said that women were tattooed on the breast.

I pointed out that the NYT was mistaken to claim the VW report said that women were tattooed on the breast.

[Hannover]

Rabbit:

You really do have serious reading comprehension issues Hannover.

What a weak retreat.

No Rabbit, you have either a serious problem in making cogent responses, a defective memory, or both.

I will walk you through it:
- I remind you of CCS's post concerning claimed tattooing of women's breasts.
- Subsequently you posted a document about a Soviet POW having been given a tattoo on his breast.
- That clearly appeared to support the content in CCS's post. Otherwise why would you even post the document?
- Your document is irrelevant which I previously, clearly pointed out.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.