Offsite Holocaust Debate

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
GarretKadeDupre
Member
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:28 pm

Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby GarretKadeDupre » 4 years 7 months ago (Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:32 pm)

http://www.debate.org/debates/Holocaust-happened/1/

I am a Holocaust denier in the sense I don't think Jews were ever systematically slaughtered on an industrial scale in WWII by Germans. I signed up just to post this for a couple of reasons. First, I think it presents some handy arguments for others to borrow. Two, I have one more round to go and I was wondering if anyone had advice or tips for me to help me rebut my opponent's arguments.

User avatar
borjastick
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2567
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
Location: Europe

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby borjastick » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:34 am)

Put the responsibility on them. When they quote 6m dead ask for proof, real proof, locations of graves, technical descriptions of how, when and when it was done. Ask for locations and details of where these six million came from and why they repeat the six million figure.

Simply put, throw it back at them and ask for proof.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

EtienneSC
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 516
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby EtienneSC » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:04 am)

On the famous Hitler Reichstag speech cited by your opponent, you might cite this video of Hitler:

And draw attention to his claim (1.10) to have annihilated or destroyed (vernichtete) the Marxist Party in Germany. This obviously does not imply physical extermination, but rather dissolution of the organization, banning newspapers and holding some activists in captivity.

You would then have to go through the other evidence he provides. We have debated the Höss confession, Himmler speech, Jaeger report and the Einsatzgruppen reports here on other threads. Julius Streicher did deny the holocaust at Nuremberg, though not under that name of course (see the IMT transcripts). Others were under duress of various kinds, or it was not relevant to their defence.

Your opponent seems to have some sources that I haven't seen before (e.g. Hans Stark). It would be interesting to learn more about them.

Good luck!

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9973
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby Hannover » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:48 am)

Garret:
Have a look here and lay it on your opponent.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9315&p=70842&hilit=asmarques+hannover#p70842

Search Hans Stark here, another person who said the impossible and then contradicted others who said the impossible

Always ask to see the claimed documents, not someones creative 'translations', the originals only.

To make really quick work of him, send him here. He has no chance.

Welcome, Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3422
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby Hektor » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:32 pm)

How can we vote you up?

Seen the supporter .... and his fallacious "proof" Shall we post and debate this here?

In case it's already covered just post links.

User avatar
Mulegino1
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:15 pm

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby Mulegino1 » 4 years 7 months ago (Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:59 pm)

GarretKadeDupre wrote:http://www.debate.org/debates/Holocaust-happened/1/

I am a Holocaust denier in the sense I don't think Jews were ever systematically slaughtered on an industrial scale in WWII by Germans. I signed up just to post this for a couple of reasons. First, I think it presents some handy arguments for others to borrow. Two, I have one more round to go and I was wondering if anyone had advice or tips for me to help me rebut my opponent's arguments.


Welcome to the forum!

The key to winning a debate over the "Holocaust" is to keep the debate at the level of discrete facts and real physical evidence.

Avoid vague generalities - be very specific and try to get the debate to involve things like technical questions and logistics, such as the technical absurdity of the alleged gassing methods at Birkenau and Majdanek , i.e., dropping pellets of Zyklon-B through holes in the roof onto the floor of an unheated underground morgue as opposed to the sophisticated delousing technology employed in the real gas chambers, i.e., the delousing chambers. (Read Germar Rudolf's report as well).

The impossibility of the Treblinka II mass graves and impossible outdoor cremation claims.

The absurdity of gassing people with diesel exhaust - which is not even lethal.

The "Luther Memorandum" of the German Foreign Office of August 16, 1942, which stated clearly and unequivocally "After the war, the Jews will have to leave Europe. This is the unalterable decision of the Fuehrer...", which would make absolutely no sense if the policy was one of total genocide. How could the Jews "leave Europe" if all of them were dead?

The more the debate moves towards specific events, documents, and places, the stronger your case is.

The Holocaust narrative is a myth - and its power diminishes as it ceases to be a vague, nebulous, all encompassing narrative and is reduced to the level of empirical investigation.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9973
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby Hannover » 4 years 7 months ago (Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:00 pm)

Garret:
1st Wannsee, then the Schlegelberger & Luther documents follow below.

Back the guy up a bit, the Wannsee meeting notes are filled with bizarre, tell tale elements:
see Germar Rudolf here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=vSPEB ... ee&f=false

and from a pervious post:
Hannover wrote:A common tactic is for the holocaust Industry to refer to the alleged numbers of Jews in Europe as indicated in the alleged notes of the Wannsee Conference ... which was held to discuss 'final solution' to the Jewish problem by deportation & resettlement, not the alleged 'extermination'.

These numbers are so far off base that even prominient Jews have dismissed them. (according to Yehuda Bauer there were only 9 million Jews in ALL of Europe...A HISTORY OF THE HOLOCAUST by Yehuda Bauer. New York: Franklin Watts, 1982, 398pp, $15.95, ISBN 0-531-098621)
Wannsee indicates 11,000,000 Jews in Europe (ex.: 700,000 in France...which is patently absurd), therefore leading some to the conclusion that the minutes of that Wannsee meeting were tampered with.

It's interesting since we have the original document which postponed the conference to a later date, see scan here - http://www.fpp.co.uk/Himmler/Note080142.html - but not the original meeting notes.
Anyone seen the **original** Wannsee Conference minutes?

There is no doubt by Revisionists that the conference took place, and undoubtedly minutes were taken. However, whatever minutes actually do/did exist apparently have been manipulated in an attempt to create an outcome that would come closer to supporting the fraudulent assumption of '6,000,000'. That awkward undertaking was less than successful as there are howlers aplenty:

- the absurd numbers of Jews that are listed in these alleged 'translations'

- no mention of 'gas chambers' or mass murder as a 'solution'

- the markings on this alleged "copy 16 of 30" are in contradiction with normal German administrative procedure at the time

- Auschwitz commandant Hoess allegedly "confessed" that in August, 1941, Himmler told him to start gassing at Auschwitz and that it was already being done at Majdanek. So, we allegedly have mass extermination already in progress at Majdanek in Aug. '41, improved and underway at Auschwitz by October, 1941 and then in January 1942 we have Wannsee supposedly creating plans that have no bearing upon the current accepted timeline of mass extermination. Why hold a conference months after the alleged 'extermination plan' was already in progress?

The source of the Wannsee Protocol document, which claims to be "copy 16 of 30", is none other than Nuremberg prosecutor, arch judeo-supremacist / Zionist, Robert Max Kempner.

David Irving says this about shyster Kempner:
Kempner's behaviour with evidence was also highly questionable. He would later turn up in German foreign ministry files the Original Copy No. 16 (SIXTEEN) of the Wannsee Protocol, and bestow upon it a wholly undeserved reputation as a key document in the Final Solution of the Jewish Problem; despite the aura which now surrounds it, the document contains no explicit reference to the killing of Jews. It is complete with 'Geheime Kommandosache' rubber stamps. Not only did the R.H.S.A., the agency supposedly originating the document, use the civilian classification 'Geheime Reichssache' on it's documents, but the statistics contained in the document bore little relation either to each other or to reality.

There is further evidence of skulduggery in the documents collected by Kempner's office on the Final Solution. The Nuremberg document experts routinely produced 'staff evidence analysis sheets' on the documents that came into their hands, indicating where they were found, and which individuals were mentioned or incriminated by them.

The sheet on document 4055-PS, a photostat of parts of the German ministry of the interior file on the Final Solution, shows that when first analysed by the experts it contained four important items relating to discussions on definitions of Jews; one of these four documents originating in the spring of 1942, showed Staatssekretaer Franz Schlegelberger informing his staff at the justice ministry that Dr. Hans Lammers, chief of the Reich chancellery, had phoned to inform him the the Fuehrer, Adolf Hitler, had 'repeatedly' ordered the solution of the Jewish problem 'postponed until after the war was over'. This did not suit Kempner at all, and when the file was returned to the document centre this particular photostat was missing."

from: 'Nuremberg, the Last Battle', 1996, by David Irving; p.91-92.

There was a movie made about the Wannsee Conference supposedly based upon the Conference minutes. However since the minutes contained nothing about gas chambers and killing, they had to use the theatrical device of going off the record by creating 'talk' about killing. It was never explained of course, how they knew what was said off the record if there was no record.
It’s just another example of circular logic. 'We know the Holocaust happened so the Wannsee Conference was about killing Jews' and 'since the Wannsee Conference planned the killing of Jews it proved that the Holocaust happened as it's alleged'

- Hannover

Hannover wrote:They will also need to address the confirming Luther Memo:

The 'Luther Memo' confirms the contents of the Schlegelberger document.
see:
http://www.codoh.com/viewpoints/vppgluther.html

The Luther Memo is a document that provides a summary of German Jewish population policies as of August, 1942. It references, by enclosure, about a dozen other documents, including the July 1941 Goering letter and the Wannsee Conference minutes, and provides a connected narrative to that point.

It does not describe extermination, but rather ghettoization in the East and labor utilization. It describes the nature of what the official German policy actually was. Exterminationists reference it usually by claiming that is is all "code words" ...laughable.

for more see:
'Schlegelberger letter'
viewtopic.php?t=534

- Hannover


- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Thames Darwin
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:55 pm

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby Thames Darwin » 4 years 7 months ago (Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:31 pm)

GarretKadeDupre wrote:http://www.debate.org/debates/Holocaust-happened/1/

I am a Holocaust denier in the sense I don't think Jews were ever systematically slaughtered on an industrial scale in WWII by Germans. I signed up just to post this for a couple of reasons. First, I think it presents some handy arguments for others to borrow. Two, I have one more round to go and I was wondering if anyone had advice or tips for me to help me rebut my opponent's arguments.


I commented on your thread asking you to send me a challenge.

Carto's Cutlass Supreme
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2363
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:42 am
Location: Northern California

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 4 years 7 months ago (Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:29 pm)

Hi Garrett,

ThamesDarwin is a believer in the holocaust, just in case that wasn't clear.

I admire you for taking this on. The most important thing is that you're learning a lot. The other side will cite a big impressive-looking book, tome, called "The Destruction of the European Jews" by Raul Hilberg, but if you only knew that Hilberg's sources are often bogus, fraudulent.

User avatar
Dresden
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1483
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:38 pm

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby Dresden » 4 years 7 months ago (Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:32 pm)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme said:

"The other side will cite a big impressive-looking book, tome, called "The Destruction of the European Jews" by Raul Hilberg"

Jurgen Graf's "Giant with Feet of Clay" totally destroys Hilberg's "The Destruction of the European Jews".

http://vho.org/dl/ENG/Giant.pdf
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

User avatar
borjastick
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2567
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
Location: Europe

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby borjastick » 4 years 6 months ago (Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:45 am)

Thames Darwin wrote:
GarretKadeDupre wrote:http://www.debate.org/debates/Holocaust-happened/1/

I am a Holocaust denier in the sense I don't think Jews were ever systematically slaughtered on an industrial scale in WWII by Germans. I signed up just to post this for a couple of reasons. First, I think it presents some handy arguments for others to borrow. Two, I have one more round to go and I was wondering if anyone had advice or tips for me to help me rebut my opponent's arguments.


I commented on your thread asking you to send me a challenge.


Maybe Thames Darwin can respond here with his comment and while he's at it supply us all with proof that jews were subjected to wholesale slaughter by the Nazis in the holocaust.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9973
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby Hannover » 4 years 6 months ago (Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:46 am)

borjastick:
Maybe Thames Darwin can respond here with his comment and while he's at it supply us all with proof that jews were subjected to wholesale slaughter by the Nazis in the holocaust.

He has tried repeatedly with no success.

- Hannover


The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9973
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby Hannover » 4 years 6 months ago (Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:00 pm)

Andrew Mathis, who also posts as 'Thames Darwin' demolished here:

Alleged "mass graves" according to T. Darwin / Andrew Mathis
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9414

'Andrew Mathis on Dachau, Majdanek, Auschwitz, Treblinka'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9228

Andrew Mathis, who also posts as 'Thames Darwin', gets shot down again:
Anecdotal evidence & "holocaust survivors"
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9238

holocaust' denial article by Andrew Mathis debunked here'
viewtopic.php?t=2816

'Prof. Mc Nally dissects HHP's Andrew Mathis' bogus article'
viewtopic.php?t=2841

'Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis on Zyklon scent removal'
viewtopic.php?t=2499

'Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more'
viewtopic.php?t=267

'Believer org. spokesman, Andrew Mathis, demolished in debate'
viewtopic.php?t=254

'Holo. Hist. Proj.'s Andrew Mathis attempts damage control'
viewtopic.php?t=2498

'Email from Andrew Mathis (The Holocaust History Project)'
viewtopic.php?t=1526

'holocaust' History Project to unveil section on Treblinka'
viewtopic.php?t=280

- H.

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

GarretKadeDupre
Member
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:28 pm

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby GarretKadeDupre » 4 years 6 months ago (Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:23 pm)

Darn it guys, I got no email notifications so I didn't even realize this topic was approved until the debate was over. Fortunately you all have given me some great advice, tips and resources which I will be able to exploit in my (likely) future debate with Thames Darwin (if that's even his real name).

Wish me luck, I'm going back read through the comments in this thread more thoroughly since I only skimmed them.

Carto's Cutlass Supreme
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2363
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:42 am
Location: Northern California

Re: Offsite Holocaust Debate

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 4 years 6 months ago (Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:40 pm)

Debate is great if both sides are genuine truth seekers. If not then there is a sophist, sophistic, sophistry element. I'd recommend learning a lot about the holocaust myth, more than debating.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests