Soviet gassing chair and gassing trucks

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Soviet gassing chair and gassing trucks

Postby Review » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:43 am)

I realize this could be placed under ww2 revisionism, but since I have a feeling elite jewry is projecting some of the bolshevik terror in the Soviet Union on the Third Reich, I thought it could be placed under holocaust revisionism.

Nobel-prize winner (I know, appeal to authority) Alexander Solchenitsyn claims that two jews invented both a gassing chair and the gassing trucks allegedly used in the Soviet Union to execute perceived enemies of the bolshevik state apparatus. Some people seem to claim this is an "antisemitic" myth etc. What do you think of these claims, have they been proven or disproven?

Commissioned by the NKVD, the Jewish designer of execution systems, Grigori Mayranovsky, invented the gas chair. When, in 1951, Mayranovsky, as the former head of the NKVD Laboratory Institute, was himself incarcerated, he wrote to Beria: "Please do not forget that by my hand hundreds enemy-pigs of the Soviet State found their deserved end."...


...The mobile gassing truck was invented and tested by Isay Davidovich Berg, head of the NKVD Economics Division in the Moscow region. In 1937, a second highpoint in the Great Purge, prisoners were sentenced to death in conveyor-belt fashion, packed into trucks, taken to the places of execution, shot in the back of the neck, and buried. In the economic sense, Isay Berg found this method of liquidation inefficient, time-consuming and cost-intensive. He, therefore, in 1937 designed the mobile asphyxiation chamber, the gassing truck (Russian: dushegubka, p. 297)...


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http://www.vho.org/tr/2004/3/Strauss342-351.html



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Re: Soviet gassing chair and gassing trucks

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:16 pm)

It's an interesting proposition. And conceptually, the notion of the NKVD killing on a mass scale and then putting that on the Nazis as part of the holocaust is certainly the case with the Katyn forest massacre, and also that then effecting the Treblinka story. (Yankel Wiernik's Year In Treblinka mentions Katyn.)

But what comes to my mind is that Solzhenitsyn's assertion is written years after the holocaust gas van allegation. Though perhaps this is something Solzhenitsyn knew about long before his book came out.

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Re: Soviet gassing chair and gassing trucks

Postby hermod » 2 years 4 months ago (Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:48 pm)

Had the Bolsheviks actually mass murdered people in gas vans, I think that they would have come up with something better than non-lethal Diesel gas vans when they decided to blame such weapons of mass murder on their German enemies during WW2. But Mr Friedrich Paul Berg believes that the Bolsheviks moved from gasoline ("the Soviets' own mass murder technology") to Diesel in their anti-German atrocity propaganda in order to make those gas vans "seem more sinister and, most of all, more German" (https://books.google.be/books?id=pyjEBA ... ar&f=false). Maybe. In any case, the file of the Soviet gas vans seems very thin to me.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Soviet gassing chair and gassing trucks

Postby borjastick » 2 years 4 months ago (Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:32 am)

The mobile gassing truck was invented and tested by Isay Davidovich Berg, head of the NKVD Economics Division in the Moscow region. In 1937, a second highpoint in the Great Purge, prisoners were sentenced to death in conveyor-belt fashion, packed into trucks, taken to the places of execution, shot in the back of the neck, and buried. In the economic sense, Isay Berg found this method of liquidation inefficient, time-consuming and cost-intensive. He, therefore, in 1937 designed the mobile asphyxiation chamber, the gassing truck (Russian: dushegubka, p. 297)...


I'm afraid this doesn't add up for this Berg character anymore than the same claim drifting around Himmler as an excuse to create the mass murder gas chambers.

The reality is that if you had to get rid of loads of people a bullet in the back of the head is far quicker and more efficient than packing them into gas chambers etc. And that's why the bullet system is still used all over the world today unless you are a one brain cell ISIS operative when decapitation seems to offer greater pleasures...
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Soviet gassing chair and gassing trucks

Postby Review » 2 years 4 months ago (Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:19 pm)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:It's an interesting proposition. And conceptually, the notion of the NKVD killing on a mass scale and then putting that on the Nazis as part of the holocaust is certainly the case with the Katyn forest massacre, and also that then effecting the Treblinka story. (Yankel Wiernik's Year In Treblinka mentions Katyn.)

But what comes to my mind is that Solzhenitsyn's assertion is written years after the holocaust gas van allegation. Though perhaps this is something Solzhenitsyn knew about long before his book came out.


If the gassing trucks are true, Solzchenitsyn is hardly the only one who knew about it. Many/some Soviet Bolsheviks went to Israel after it was created, or the US.

I just don't think Solzchenitsyn made up these claims, so is he just mistaken or what ? I guess the book "200 years together" (from where these claims are said to be) is coming out in English at some point..

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Re: Soviet gassing chair and gassing trucks

Postby Hannover » 2 years 4 months ago (Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:41 pm)

Such chairs, trucks might have been useful for one-off executions, such as paying visits to unreliable Soviet generals, but the idea that they were used on masses of people is not credible, IMO.

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The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

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Re: Soviet gassing chair and gassing trucks

Postby Review » 2 years 4 months ago (Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:07 pm)

Hannover wrote:Such chairs, trucks might have been useful for one-off executions, such as paying visits to unreliable Soviet generals, but the idea that they were used on masses of people is not credible, IMO..[/i]


IDK, The Holodomor and the idea to kill off millions of Ukrainians by hunger, to control them, is not logical from a strictly technical perspective, either. Still, some/most(?) claim it was done on purpose. Surely it would have been more effective to shoot those millions ? The Bolshevik apparatus did a lot of crazy things, as far as I know.

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Re: Soviet gassing chair and gassing trucks

Postby Review » 2 weeks 8 hours ago (Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:12 am)

Some more information about these crude Soviet, not German, "gas/execution vans", from the book "The Gas Vans", by Santiago Alvarez.

In 1994 U.S. engineer Friedrich P. Berg reported about a four-part TV documentary with the title “Monster: A Portrait of Stalin in Blood” aired in the U.S. in 1993 about the collapse of the Soviet Union (Gauss 1994, p. 342). One segment of the second part of the series subtitled “Stalin’s Secret Police,” is of special interest, as it confirms what we suspect.....

At one point KGB officer Alexander Michailov states the following:“We’ve come across evidence that long before Hitler’s gas vans came into being, Isai Davidovich Berg invented secret gas vans in Moscow. It was a simple airtight van in which prisoners were delivered, and when necessary, carbon monoxide exhaust fumes were piped into the van.”



The revelation about Soviet gas vans was confirmed two years later by Russian writer Michael S. Voslensky, who had been a Russian interpreter during the Nuremberg Trials, but who was later exiled as a dissident. After the collapse of the Soviet Union he gained access to the once secret files of the former Soviet Secret service NKVD. Among other atrocities found there, he also reports....:“And one final detail. During World War Two the people in the Soviet Union were indignant when they learned that the German security services [allegedly] used retrofitted vans to kill people with exhaust gases. In the Soviet media these gas vehicles were called ‘soul vendors.’

They really were a diabolic invention, and their inventors werecriminals. Only this wasn’t a German but a Soviet invention. In the USSR a
truck was constructed whose exhaust gases were piped into the enclosed cargo box. The inventor was a certain [Isay Davidovich] Berg, ...


one last quote, summing it up:

...More than likely, the Soviet allegations of [German] gas trucks are truly based on the Soviets’ own mass murder technology to which they simply added Diesel engines to make them seem more sinister and, most of all, more German.”


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