Have any Jewish survivors denied gas chambers?

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Hannover
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:05 am)

So, IOW, what happened to Jews was commonplace during WWII.

Except the Jews did not suffer as many dead as say the German civilians, or anti-communists, or Japanese civilians.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:35 am)

oberststuhlherr wrote:The camps were living hells. Whether by design or accident can be debated, but I think there is sufficient evidence to show that the people in the camps were at mortal risk.


Image Image

Compare for yourself: [Left] Germans prisoners of war living in holes in the ground, hardly any food or shelter and no heat in the winter, with [right] so-called inhumanity of the Auschwitz Barracks with mowed lawns, heated barracks, comfortable beds, flush toilets, running water, and even a swimming pool for inmates. Who were the inhumane ones?

(Who set up the first concentration camps, and where and when?)

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:48 am)

What happened to the Jews in the KZs was likewise terrible.

It largely got terrible at the end because an allied strategy of winning the war was starving the Germans. Of course this would trickle down to low food rations in the camps. From this angle, the allies are the ones who killed the Jews in the camps, at least those who died of starvation.

The second element is that when a government is collapsing, everything stops working. What would happen to the American federal prison system if the federal government collapsed? Suddenly there's no chain of command. Suddenly no paycheck. Suddenly the currency is no good. People quit showing up for work.

Add these preliminary events:
• that the Dresden bombing hurt food, medical etc. transports to the East.
• that trains risk getting strafed
• a US/Britain refusal to a surrender to them and not the Soviet Union. (I don't know much about this though.)
Last edited by Carto's Cutlass Supreme on Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Kiwichap » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:25 am)

Have any Jewish People testified that there were no gas chambers...?

http://www.mazal.org

This site belongs to Mr Mazel OBE, a big-wig in the holocaust propaganda program. He teaches all the holocaust historians. He sets them right when they are wrong. He tunes them up. He makes sure that the propaganda (for that is what the holocaust is - Anti Nationalist propanganda) all follows the same line!

TEACHING THE HOLOCAUST IN RUSSIA
Ilya Altman
A necessity exists for teaching Holocaust history in secondary and high
schools in Russia, due to the increase of nationalist and fascist
propaganda in the country. ...

http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse. ... &user=&pw=


Therefore: The Holocaust is anti-nationalist, anti-fascist PROPANGANDA.

Here we have a AFFIDAVIT from MRS. ZOE POLANSKA.

http://www.mazal.org/Irving/Polanska/PolanskaText.htm

She was to testify in the Irving trial. I am not sure she is Jewish - but I believe she was going to testify towards the non-existance of gas chambers or at least that she did not see any while she was in the camp.

Irving withdrew her prior to the trial - Do we know why?

Perhaps intimidation was the reason. Isn't it always?


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There was no holocaust.

Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Postby Erik D. Schmid » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:07 am)

This is a subject I have been wondering about for some time as well. Where are all of the people (jews) who tell a story decidedly contradictory to the oft touted orthodox version of events? Are they quickly intercepted before they get their version of events out to the public? These discrepencies are what first brought out Paul Rassinier correct?

The two pictures that have been posted of German POW's and the Auschwitz barracks I have seen before. However, what are the specifics of the image on the left? Where is this supposed to have taken place?

One thing that needs to be done in order to get more people to question the official version of events surrounding the holocaust is to get more mainstream attention in some form. Without that revisionists will continually fight an uphill battle. I still run into people who believe thousands were gassed at Dachau despite evidence to the contrary. Most people will only believe what they see on television or in mainstream news outlets. Anyway, I am rambling again. :oops:

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:33 am)

Erik D. Schmid wrote:Where is this supposed to have taken place?

Here is a list of camps along the river Rhine:

Alzey
Andernach
Bad Kreuznach
Biebelsheim
Böhl
Bretzenheim
Büderich
Büdesheim
Dietersheim
Diez
Hechtsheim
Heidesheim
Ingelheim
Koblenz
Koblenz-Lützel
Ludwigshafen
Ludwigshafen-Rheingönheim
Mainz
Mainz-Kastel
Mainz-Zahlbach
Mannheim
Mannheim-Käfertal
Mannheim-Sandhofen
Mannheim-Schönau
Mannheim-Waldhof
Miesenheim
Plaidt
Remagen
Rheinberg
Rheinheim
Schwarzenborn
Siershan
Sinzig
Trier
Urmitz
Wickrathberg
Winzenheim

Here is a List of camps away from river Rhine

Aalen, Baden-Württemberg
Adelsdorf, Bayern
Aigen, Böhmerwald
Alsdorf, Nordrhein-Westfalen
Altenstadt, Bayern
Amberg, Bayern
Ansbach, Bayern
Artern, Bezirk Halle,
Aschaffenburg, Bayern
Asperg, Baden-Württemberg
Auerbach, Bayern
Augsburg-Oberhausen, Bayern
Babenhausen, Hessen
Bad Aibling, Bayern
Bad Hersfeld, Hessen
Bad Homburg, Hessen
Bad Mergentheim, Baden- Württemberg
Bad Nauheim, Hessen
Bad Reichenhall, Bayern
Bad Salzschlirf, Hessen
Bad Tölz, Bayern
Bad Wildungen, Hessen
Bamberg, Bayern
Bebra, Hessen
Berchtesgaden, Bayern
Berlin-Lichterfelde,
Berlin-Wannsee
Berlin-Zehlendorf
Bischofswiesen, Bayern
Brilon
Bobingen. Bayern
Bremerhaven-Weddewarten
Bruchsal, Baden-Württemberg
Bruck, Bayern
Burgau, Bayern
Burghausen, Bayern
Butzbach, Hessen
Coburg, Bayern
Dachau, Bayern
Darmstadt, Hessen
Ebensee, Oberösterreich
Elsenfeld, Bayern
Ens an der Ens, Österreich
Erding, Bayern
Erlangen, Bayern
Eschborn, Hessen
Eschwege, Hessen
Falkenstein, Hessen
Feucht, Hessen
Flossenbürg, Bayern
Frankenberg, Bezirk Chemnitz
Frankenberg, Hessen
Frankfurt, Main
Frankfurt-Niederrad,
Frankfurt-Zeilsheim,
Frauendorf, Bayern
Freising, Bayern
Friesdorf, Nordrhein-Westfalen
Fürstenfeldbruck, Bayern
Fürth, Bayern
Gabersee, Bayern
Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Bayern
Gars, Bayer
Gemünden, Bayern
Gießen-Wieseneck, Hessen
Glasenbach, Salzburg
Göggingen, Bayern
Göppingen, Baden-Württemberg
Golling, Salzburg
Gotha, Thüringen
Griesheim, Hessen
Großauheim, Hessen
Haar, München
Haid, Oberösterreich
Hallein, Salzburg
Hammelburg, Bayern
Happurg, Bayern
Hausham, Bayern
Heilbronn, Baden-Württemberg
Heimbach, Hessen
Herborn, Hessen
Herrsching, Bayern
Hersbruck, Bayern
Hessisch-Lichtenau, Hessen
Hintersee, Salzburg
Hirschberg, Hessen
Hof, Bayern
Hof-Moschendorf, Bayern
Hohenbrunn, Bayern
Hundstadt, Hessen,
Ingolstadt, Bayern
Ipsheim, Bayern
Kamp-Lintfort, Nordrhein-Westfalen
Kaprun, Salzburg
Karlsfeld, Bayern
Karlsruhe
Katzenfurt, Hessen
Kaufbeuren, Bayern
Kesterbach, Hessen
Kleinmünchen, Oberösterreich
Königstein, Hessen
Korbach, Hessen
Lambach, Oberösterreich
Landsberg, Bayern
Landshut, Bayern
Langenzenn, Bayern
Langlau, Bayern
Limburg, Hessen
Linz, Oberösterreich
Linz-Wegscheid,
Lohr, Bayern
Ludwigsburg, Baden-Württemberg
Maisach, Bayern
Manching, Bayern
Marburg, Hessen
Markt Bibart, Bayern
Memmingen, Bayern
Mittenwald, Bayern
Mohlsdorf, Thüringen
Moosburg, Bayern
Münchberg, Bayern
München
München-Allach
München-Daglfing
München-Freimann
Münster
Natternberg, Bayern
Naumburg/Saale, Sachsen-Anhalt
Neumarkt, Bayern
Neustadt, Hessen
Neu-Ulm, Bayern
Nieserroden, Baden-Württemberg
Nürnberg
Nürnberg-Erlenstegen
Nürnberg-Langwasser
Oberdachstetten, Bayern
Oberursel, Hessen
Oberursel-Hohemark
Ochsenfurt, Bayern
Ochsenpferch, Baden-Württemberg
Peuerbach, Oberösterreich
Planegg, Bayern
Plankstetten, Bayern
Plattling, Bayern
Possenhofen, Bayern
Pupping, Oberösterreich
Recklinghausen, Nordrhein-Westfalen
Regensburg, Bayern
Reinhartshausen, Bayern
Rockenberg, Hessen
Rosenheim, Bayern
Roth, Bayern
Salzburg
Salzburg Gnigl
Sankt Gilgen, Salzburg
Schliersee, Bayern
Schnuttenbach, Bayern
Schwabach, Bayern
Schwabmünchen, Bayern
Schwäbisch-Hall, Baden-Württemberg
Schweiklberg, Bayern
Stadt Allendorf, Hessen
Stein, Bayern
Stephanskirchen, Bayern
Steyr, Oberösterreich
Straubing, Bayern
Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen
Sulzbach-Rosenberg, Bayern
Tann, Bayern
Teugn, Bayern
Trostberg, Bayern
Tutzing, Bayern
Ulm
Vilshofen, Bayern
Weiden, Bayern
Wels, Oberösterreich
Wendelhöfen, Bayern
Werneck, Bayern
Wickelskreuth, Bayern
Wien
Wiesbaden-Dotzheim
Wiesloch, Baden-Württemberg
Wolfratshausen, Bayern
Würzburg
Würzburg-Heidingsfeld
Wuppertal
Zell am See, Salzburg
Ziegenhain, Hessen

(see: http://www.rheinwiesenlager.de/lager.htm)

Must have been in one of these camps.
"Everything has already been said, but not yet by everyone." - Karl Valentin

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:59 am)

Is there any evidence for the amount that died in those POW camps? I often see figures of around a million or more, but we can't just take that at face value without the kind of evidence we ask of holocaust promoters.

As for Jewish testimony against the gas chambers, I think that in a way the vast majority of Jews and other inmates who aren't cited as witnesses to the gas chambers can count as such. They are people who were at the camps but didn't see gas chambers. But many heard rumours whilst in the camps and they have all since lived under the assumption that the gassings were taking place. Some of them might remember seeing something that taken with the later mass explosion of the myth has led them to believe that they witnessed people going to the gas chambers.

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:39 am)

Is there any evidence for the amount that died in those POW camps?

The industry says between 5,000 and 10,000 deaths.
Baque and others say more than a million.

Other Losses by James Bacque
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1551681919/qid=1111854682/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-7462996-8011913

They are people who were at the camps but didn't see gas chambers.

Every single Jew that arrived in Birkenau was able to see crema II and crema III. The distance between the plattform ("ramp") and the cremas was only 50 m. And there was only the standard barbe wire fence between the rails and the buildings.

Image
Birkenau: People on the plattform in front of crema III

Image
The building in the background with the chimney is crema II.

There are many photos like these on sites of the indu$try in the net.
"Everything has already been said, but not yet by everyone." - Karl Valentin

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:17 pm)

It's 60 years later, and I live in freedom-lovin' USA, and I won't even tell my closest friends that I'm a revisisionist, and if I did, if it got out, there would be a huge stigma against me. I'm not Jewish by the way. So if it's like that for me, now. Imagine a Jewish person closer to the time of the 1940's, saying that there were no gassings in the camps. Imagine anyone in Poland saying they were a revisionist during the communist years. Just ask yourself what it would be like if at your workplace you started casually telling everyone you were a revisionist. I think that answers the question of why there aren't a lot of Jewish survivors saying the gassings didn't happen at the camp. Not to mention that it's pretty logical that most Jews in the camps would have hated the Nazis.

There is a scene in Fahrenheit 9-11 where a guy mentions something favorable about Saddam Hussein while working out at his health club, and the FBI then visits him at his house. Yes, it's an unusual example, but for a Jewish camp survivor to openly claim there were no gassings? Bye bye job. Bye bye advanced degree (if in France), hello thugs, and in many places, hello jail.

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Postby oberststuhlherr » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:07 pm)

Haldan wrote:
oberststuhlherr wrote:The camps were living hells. Whether by design or accident can be debated, but I think there is sufficient evidence to show that the people in the camps were at mortal risk.


Image Image

Compare for yourself: [Left] Germans prisoners of war living in holes in the ground, hardly any food or shelter and no heat in the winter, with [right] so-called inhumanity of the Auschwitz Barracks with mowed lawns, heated barracks, comfortable beds, flush toilets, running water, and even a swimming pool for inmates. Who were the inhumane ones?


The swimming pool is not very impressive. Cole was very careful to pan it to the best effect, and even then, it was clear the swimming pool wasn't serving the whole camp at once. I will add that Cole did not present his Auschwitz visit as "the final word", but rather as the first move in what he had hoped would be a civilized debate.



I trust you will tell me it was the Americans who did it in the US before the Germans.

I neither deny Dr. Kermer said the following, nort that he had good reason to say it: "Zum 1. Male draussen um 3 Uhr frueh bei einer Sonderaktion zugegen. Im Vergleich hierzu erscheint mir das Dante'sche Inferno fast wie eine Komoedie. Umsonst wird Auschwitz nicht das Lager der Vernichtung genannt!"

A person who is alive after living through the conditions he described can rightfully and meaningfully be described as a survivor. It is not, in my mind, a question of whether the prisoners of Auschwitz are meaningfully denoted as survivors. The question is what exactly it was they survived.

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:43 am)

oberststuhlherr wrote:


I trust you will tell me it was the Americans who did it in the US before the Germans.


The British invented concentration camps and began the mass bombing of civilians, the Poles built the first concentration camps in Europe.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:46 am)

Who did the Poles put into camps?

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:20 am)

-haldan
The British invented concentration camps and began the mass bombing of civilians, the Poles built the first concentration camps in Europe.

-haldan


Who did the British bomb first? Considering the Germans attacked Poland, including Warsaw in September 1939.

The Germans lacked a strategic bomber force, the failure of the Luftwaffe to conduct strategic bombing is a result of an inability to do so, and is not an indication of policy.

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Postby Maly Jacek » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:22 am)

Apart Bereza Karuska - place branded as "concentration camp" by Polish communists after 1945,I'm not aware of any others.Unless Haldan can tell us more about it

Following the terrorist campaign in the early 1930's and the assasination of Minister of Internal Affairs Bronisław Pieracki and the deputy head of BBWR organisation Tadeusz Hołówka, the former tsarist barracks and prison were turned into a camp of internment of both Polish rightist extremists from the ONR, Ukrainian nationalists from the OUN and the members of the Communist Party of Poland. The very existence of the camp, as well as the legal basis for its' opening were openly questioned and often criticized by all the opposition to Sanacja movement. Especially due to the fact that the inmates were sent there for up to three months without any decision of the courts, basing solely on the administrative decision of the police or the voivod.

However, the camp was not closed and with time it also became a place of internment of members of other political parties. The camp, headed by Police Inspector Jan Greffner from Poznań, housed up to 800 inmates. Despite the fact that in the camp only one man died from a stroke (two additional died in the hospitals in Brześć Litewski and Grodno), the post-war communist propaganda depicted it as a concentration camp and a proof that the government of Poland was indeed a fascist or even nazi regime.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bereza_Kartuska

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:01 pm)

Richard Perle wrote:Who did the Poles put into camps?


Germans. Try to get a copy of Die Hölle von Lamsdorf in English.

We are quickly drifting off-topic.

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