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Turpitz
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Any true believer comments !

Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:37 pm)

Can you enlighten me, as to the procedures involved in gassing people, taking into consideration the architects drawings below?

"Crematorium IV , by contrast with crematorium II, was designed after Himmler's second visit to Auschwitz in July 1942. Birkenau had become a site for mass murder. All pretense of civility and civilian rules had been shed. The heimat style of Auschwitz I was replaced by the functional vernacular of Birkenau. The architects no longer bothered to draw in autopsy rooms. The space was used for gas chambers." (Dwork & Van Pelt, between 320-21)



Image

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschwitz/crematoria/

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Postby rrohde » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:59 pm)

Being German, I would love to get a closer look at those plans to actually READ what's written by the architects..

So far, from judging what I can read, the word "Gaskammer" is not mentioned anywhere. "Krematorium" and "Einaescherungsanlage" are mentioned, but what has that to do with anything alledged?

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van Pelt

Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:01 am)

I bought and read the book of van Pelt and Dwork - it is quite peculiar. But I can say: Altera pars audiatur! In the German version the blue print of crema IV is Tafel 18 (plate 18 ), without page number.

Here are most of the words on that drawing (English translation in brackets):

[title - top left]:
Einäscherungsanlage für das K.G.L., Deckblatt für die Zeichnung Nr. 1687 (Cremation plant for POW camp, cover sheet for the drawing #1687)

[caption - bottom right]:
Bauleitung der Waffen-SS und Polizei in Auschwitz O/S (Construction management of Waffen-SS and police in Auschwitz, Upper Silesia)
[sorry, but my keyboard does not provide runes]

Einäscherungs... (Cremation ...)
Maßstab (Scale); Geprüft (approved); Datum (date); ...

[Words on the drawing]:
Erdgeschossgrundriss (ground floor plan)
Kanalisation (sewage water system)
Lichte Höhe 2 m (headroom 2 m )
Kohle (carbon)
Vorraum (vestibule)
Entlüftung (ventilation)
Schleuse (sluice)
Schleuse und Geräte (sluice and equipment)
Verbrennungsraum (oven room)
Achtmuffel Einäscherungsofen (eight muffle cremation furnace)

There appears nothing like "gas chamber", "gassing" or similar. Looks like an ordinary crematory. The two rooms on the left side are the mortuary and the room for autopsy - and the alledged "gas chambers". But this drawing does not prove that these rooms were used to kill people - as well as it does not prove the opposite.

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Postby rrohde » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:14 am)

Well.. there we have it.. I guess that, according to the Industry's believe, those architects also must have used that "oh so secret language" of the Nazis to disguise a simple Krema as a Gaschamber somewhere in those plans...

:roll:

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:52 pm)

Perhaps I am missing something, why would a camp that was not designed for the destruction of human life need so many crematoriums?

Wait, I know, it was to disinfect the clothes right?


*** This post will be moderated upon posting and unviewable until approved by Hannover ***
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Moderator2 wrote:No, I'm not Hannover or anybody else you like to kick on, I'm Moderator2 :lol:


(no doubt with Hannover on speed dial) :roll:
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:58 pm)

Perhaps I am missing something, why would a camp that was not designed for the destruction of human life need so many crematoriums?


answer: typhus epidemics

fact: at no time were all the crematorium working at the same time

fact: clothes were not disinfected in crematorium
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:18 pm)

Hannover wrote:
Perhaps I am missing something, why would a camp that was not designed for the destruction of human life need so many crematoriums?


answer: typhus epidemics

fact: at no time were all the crematorium working at the same time

fact: clothes were not disinfected in crematorium


Instead of spending all the time and resources to dispose of bodies, why not do the human thing and try to stop the epidemics ... like building a hosptital instead of the crematoriums?! Hence there would be no need for crematoriums.

I find it outstanding that the Nazi's would watch thousands die from "typhus" and their reaction would be "gee, we need better ways to dispose of the victims of the epedimic running rampant in our camp"

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:48 pm)

Perhaps I am missing something, why would a camp that was not designed for the destruction of human life need so many crematoriums?


The alledged main "gas chamber" in Auschwitz was the mortuary 1 of crema 2. The level of this room was one floor below ground and also below the cremation ovens of that crematorium. It required special effort to do this because the groundwater level was very high in Auschwitz. Why did the SS do that?

If they would have planned to kill hundreds of thousand of people in the mortuary (van Pelt says 500.000) they would have built a system where the transport of dead bodys from the "gas chamber" to the oven would be as easy and fast as possible. In this case there was a narrow stairs with a u-turn and a little elevator. Just to make work harder for the SK?

If they wanted to use the room as mortuary the level below ground makes sense. The room was cool most of the time of the year - only in winter they needed a heating to keep the bodies above freezing point. Only in this case the effort for the sealing against groundwater can be justified.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:21 pm)

Trojan asks:
Instead of spending all the time and resources to dispose of bodies, why not do the human thing and try to stop the epidemics ... like building a hosptital instead of the crematoriums?! Hence there would be no need for crematoriums.


But the Germans DID in fact have a hospital at Auschwitz/Birkenau and many Jews received care in it. Which ofcourse shoots another lie; that being; 'all those that were too sick to work were gassed'.

Anywhere large numbers of people are you will find crematoriums. Nothing weird about that.

Massive typhus epidemics happened at Auschwitz, cremation is the only hygienic way to dispose of diseased corpses.

- Hannover
Last edited by Hannover on Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:26 pm)

Hannover wrote:But the Germans DID in fact have a hospital at Auschwitz/Birkenau and many Jews were receiving care in it. Which ofcourse shoots another lie; that being 'all those that were too sick to work were gassed'.

- Hannover


Which doesn't answer the question of why there were four crematoriums and only one hospital - why not four hospitals and one crematorium (not to suggest that one would be acceptable).

For every jew that died, how many received care in the hosptital, are there any records to suggest the Germans were concerned about the epedimic that ran rampant for years?

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:51 pm)

Trojan wrote:Perhaps I am missing something, why would a camp that was not designed for the destruction of human life need so many crematoriums?

At the time when the decision was made to build Kremas II, III, IV & V the camp inmate population was about 30,000 internees, the death toll from some epedemics at that time was 400 or 500 per day.

Himmler made the decision to increase the camp population to 200,000.

Based on their experience with the death toll at that time it was decided to build those four crematoria for 200,00 inmates.

This is according to the testimonies of the architects Walter Dejaco and Fritz Erl during their trial in Vienna in 1972.

fge

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:55 pm)

And Himmler himself issued orders that all efforts were to be made to control the epidemics. The delousing facilities, crematorium, and shipments of Zyklon-B are proof of the German epidemic control efforts.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:53 pm)

I bought and read the book of van Pelt and Dwork - it is quite peculiar. But I can say: Altera pars audiatur! In the German version the blue print of crema IV is Tafel 18 (plate 18 ), without page number.


Nizkor suggests: "Plate 18: Final design for crematorium IV, by Walther Dejaco, January 1943. Original blueprint, Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum, box BW (B) 30b; redrawn for publication by Mikolaj Kadlubowski

So we are off to a bad start! Redrawn (tampered, embellished) with by a Zionist?


as well as it does not prove the opposite.


That all depends on what you deduce from the drawings !



Good evening Trojan.

Getting back to the original topic have you any ideas ?

You see, I'm in desperate need of re-educating and was wondering if you could walk me through the procedure of introducing HCN pellets into the morgues ?

Oh! One more thing Troj. Do you think HCN is slightly lighter than air ?

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:49 am)

:) Trojan,with all due respect,your question in theory makes no sense at all.The huge numbers of dead from typhus and other diseases makes the need for crematoriums essential.You don't send a dead body to the hospital,you send the still living to try and save them.Indeed Himmler did order that the control of the epidemic be stepped up because they were losing a good amount of their much needed labor force.It all makes clear and perfect sense.

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Postby Trojan » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:52 am)

Hannover wrote:And Himmler himself issued orders that all efforts were to be made to control the epidemics. The delousing facilities, crematorium, and shipments of Zyklon-B are proof of the German epidemic control efforts.

- Hannover


Strange ... I'd think if there was an epedimic, you'd decrease the population, increase medical facilitites and supplies, etc.

Not increase a population already exposed to the epidemic, and build better facilities to dispose of the dead. YOUR arguments don't make logical sence. Clearly the Nazi's were hopeing that more would die, ehnce the need for more crematoriums.

Now see, I didn't know that Zyklon-B cured thyphus ... damn, I thought it was toxic!


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