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aemathisphd
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Postby aemathisphd » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:45 am)

Hannover wrote:Mathis said:
Most Zionists were already in Palestine by 1941, when mass killing began in earnest. Those that weren't already there, e.g., Menachem Begin, got there soon enough -- Begin deserted from the Polish Army after being released from a Soviet jail following the June 22 invasion.

I see that Mathis is working under an assumption that heretofore he has not backed up. That being the 'mass killings' he believes in. I refer our readers to this thread:
Zyklon-B wire mesh insertion devices debunked
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=309

Perhaps Mathis would care to take another stab in a new thread?

Thanks, Hannover


And you work under the assumption, Hannover, that there weren't mass gassings, despite the opinion of the vast majority of historians worldwide.

I have my assumptions and you have yours. Yours don't trump mine, and I am under no duty to prove gas chambers to you. So please don't start asking me in every thread to do so.

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:55 am)

:roll: I've seen actual photographs of bigfoot, as well as moving footage and eywitness accounts. If so many people have said they saw him, then it must actualy be true. The difference with bigfoot and the holocaust is that scientists were allowed public broadcasting to prove it a myth. Same thing with crop circles. The holocaust will not be publicly broadcast because of powerfull Zionist influence in the media, and the fact that they don't want to be exposed, thus putting a dent in their monopoly, as well as other huge reprocussions they'd have to endure from the mainstream public finding out they'd been lied to.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:02 am)

Mathis said:
And you work under the assumption, Hannover, that there weren't mass gassings, despite the opinion of the vast majority of historians worldwide.

I have my assumptions and you have yours. Yours don't trump mine, and I am under no duty to prove gas chambers to you. So please don't start asking me in every thread to do so.

Wrong. These court 'historians' have been thoroughly debunked by other historians over & over, they cannot prove what they allege and it has been shown. The 'historians' Mathis refers to are the same types as those who established the flat earth, the earth centered planetary system, witchcraft....all known and mandated 'facts' at one time.

Yes, I do trump Mathis's 'assumptions', because Revisionists can prove scientifically that his 'assumptions' are unsupportable, and frankly absurd...just read the mentioned thread.

And everytime Mathis or anyone else tries slipping in the notion of 'mass killings' etc., they will be reminded of their inability to provide proof. They will be challenged. That's the way it works in debate...and as it should be.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby rrohde » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:41 am)

code yellow wrote::roll: I've seen actual photographs of bigfoot, as well as moving footage and eywitness accounts. If so many people have said they saw him, then it must actualy be true. The difference with bigfoot and the holocaust is that scientists were allowed public broadcasting to prove it a myth. Same thing with crop circles. The holocaust will not be publicly broadcast because of powerfull Zionist influence in the media, and the fact that they don't want to be exposed, thus putting a dent in their monopoly, as well as other huge reprocussions they'd have to endure from the mainstream public finding out they'd been lied to.


A point well made!

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Postby aemathisphd » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:14 pm)

Hannover wrote:Yes, I do trump Mathis's 'assumptions', because Revisionists can prove scientifically that his 'assumptions' are unsupportable, and frankly absurd...just read the mentioned thread.


It is your opinion that revisionists have proved that my assumptions are unsupportable. It is not a fact.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:42 pm)

Van Pelt shows on page 325 of his Auschwitz book a cross-section of morgue 1, Krema II,


Tell me Sailor. When was the first time you ever saw this drawing mentioned above?

And the new one you have just added?

Of course you are not suggesting any of this system applies to Krema VI which is above ground and of a completely different design?

What is your impression of these drawings Sailor? I mean from a presentational point of view!

____________________________________________________________

The door leading from the vestibule into the morgue on these Krema VI plans is 'double' not single.

So the designers had obviously decided that this door was to have a far greater thorough-fare than the doors going into the supposed gas chambers.

What is the purpose of the doors leading to the exterior in each supposed gas chamber (one on the gable, and one on the rear of the building) which Pelty ignores?

The steps up to the door on the gable end are visible on the plan, but not on the Elevation !

Has anyone ever seen the original of this artefact ?

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:41 pm)

The cross-section of Leichenkeller 1 which I just added is not a German drawing. The inscriptions are in a foreign language, probably Polish. The way the drawing is dimensioned is not according to the German DIN standard.
I lifted the drawing off the Nizkor site, and they claim that is from one of Pressac's books.

The cross-section drawing from van Pelts book is also not according to the DIN norm. It is a general arrangement of the section through the morgue and is this way not suitable for construction. Construction stiffs need much more details. I think that it was redrawn from another plan.

Kremas IV and V are different. There the alleged gas chambers are above ground. According to the eye witnesses the Zyklon-B pellets were poured in through a window and they had to wear gas masks to enter the building and to drag the corpses out.

The use of Kremas IV and V as homicidal gas chambers is controversial. Holocaust mythologists believe that provisions of gas tight window covers, provision of explosion proof light fixture and the planned provision of forced ventilation ducts for the gas chambers are proof for homicidal gassings.

Revisionists however dispute this as follows:
The term "gas chamber" was used at that time by the Germans to mean "disinfestation chamber", and that the rooms 4 and 5 of Kremas IV and V were planned for such a use. Disinfestation chambers were frequently associated with crematoriums in German concentration camps, for example in Dachau. This would be the reason for the provision of gas tight covers for the windows and gas tight doors. No documentation exists for the planned installation of forced ventilation of the rooms 4 and 5. Room 4 was to be provided with a stove which would receive its fuel from the outside. This is typical for disinfestation chambers which had to be preheated to 25ºC prior to releasing the HCN gas.
Also the door shown by van Pelt between rooms 4 and 3 is not shown on the construction drawing http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/aus ... eprint.jpg. This door was apparently planned, but there exist no documentation that it ever was installed.

fge

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:49 pm)

The cross-section of Leichenkeller 1 which I just added is not a German drawing.


The cross-section drawing from van Pelts book is also not according to the DIN norm


I think that it was redrawn from another plan.


What a mess the industry has got it’s self into! You have to say this dismal scenario has come about through the culmination of years of lying.

It is a general arrangement of the section through the morgue and is this way not suitable for construction. Construction stiffs need much more details.


Well after you posted this and the other section that was the first thing that crossed my mind. These drawings are a disgrace! No-one could build anything using this garbage.
What I was really impressed with was the fact that, the dimensions, arrows and notes on the drawings had been added. Then someone with a big thick black pen (very similar to the pens used in the aerial photo’s) has drawn over a lot of them and rendered them un-readable!

They have tried drawing in the supposed mud over the roof, to fit in with their lies. They have also gone round the perimeter of the morgue just for good measure also.

These childish shoddy mock-up’s are NOT the work of a professional Architect, who has to draw ‘working plans’ that are clear and concise and above all decipherable to the person who has to use them as a reference and execute the designs.

No! These dire objects are Re-drawn, Polish, not German standard, un-readable, messy sub-standard trash! The only purpose they could serve is to wipe your backside with!

I would like to hazard a guess that these worthless cartoons arrived on the scene at about the same time as the Chicken wire induction shaft fiasco.

To those who have never seen ‘real’ plans. And are maybe unaware, just ask your-self ‘What the hell you could do with this garbage, if someone gave it to you And asked you to go and erect it?

Imagine the Architect:
I’m just going to draw a precision drawing of a structure I want to erect…..Now where’s my ½” wide black marker pen?

The triangular ducts shown in the top of the morgue are the fresh air intake ducts, the rectangular ducts at the bottom sides are the exhaust ducts.


This is my point Sailor, the drawing is so appalling. I cannot see any ‘Triangular ducts’

You cannot be talking of that wonky line, that careers across the room like a catastrophic meteor surely to god ?


According to the eye witnesses the Zyklon-B pellets were poured in through a window


Oh! For god’s sake….You are kidding aren’t you?

The whole industry is just such a shambles!


Elie Wiesel: "My experience is that the fanatic hides from true debate. The concept of dialogue is foreign to him. He knows how to speak in monologues only, so debate is superfluous to him." --"When Passion is Dangerous," Parade magazine, April 19, 1992, p. 21

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:18 pm)

Sailor, see this drawing here:

Image

Well what I want to know is, do these ducts (both intake and exhaust) run for the full lenght of the morgue?

And you also talk of the duct openings. Do you know what they looked like and the rough spacing between them? Also were they on both intake and exhaust ducts?

Also on this drawing the exhaust duct terminates to the interior of the building, in the former morgue three!?
Does the intake duct follow the same route as the exhaust duct?

Cheers

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:33 pm)

Turpitz wrote: Well what I want to know is, do these ducts (both intake and exhaust) run for the full lenght of the morgue?

And you also talk of the duct openings. Do you know what they looked like and the rough spacing between them? Also were they on both intake and exhaust ducts?

Also on this drawing the exhaust duct terminates to the interior of the building, in the former morgue three!?
Does the intake duct follow the same route as the exhaust duct?

I have never seen the detail architectural drawings of morgue 1.

Van Pelt believes that the interior of the morgue looked like the picture below, which I took from his book "The Case for Auschwitz", page 194.
Image
Please note the drainage openings in the center of the morgue between columns. These openings would have to be closed during gassing to prevent HCN gas from entering through the drainage pipes into the rest of the building. No witness testified to this.

Another point of interest are the so called "drahtnetzeinschiebevorrichtung" which the Holocaust believers interprete as "wire-mesh insertion device". See the THHP site at:
http://veritas3.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/intro-columns/

There are four of them specified in the bill of material for the crematorium II.

The last time I was in Germany I discussed this with a relative who is a heating and ventilating technician. And I came to the conclusion that there may be an incorrect translation involved here.

The Germans like long words, so let us break it down a little for a better understanding:

drahtnetz – einschiebe - vorrichtung is a:

wire screen-sliding-device, similar to what we have under the roof awnings of our house, except it is removable. The purpose is to provide aeration and prevent vernim (rats, mice etc) from entering. These wire screens are in Germany often removable for cleaning purposes. They can be slid in and out.

"Holzblende" is a louvered wooden cover which can be opened or closed or is fixed, similar to the various louvered outlets which I have in my house for the air heating system. The grill work in front of the car engine radiators is frequently called in Germany "Blende".

The bill of material for the morgue mentions four of these devices, so there would be four louvered movable wire screens provided for the air intake ducts at the bottom of the morgue, two on each side.

All ducts continue inside the crematorium up to the attic, to the attic-mounted ventilators and from there through the roof through chimney like openings.


fge

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:55 pm)

I do not believe in the laughable chicken wire things. They are a complete fabrication (and the forged documents that go with them) These things came about because they realised that the pellets had to be retrieved and would be useless on the cold floor, and would also go down the drains.

Yes I have been looking at numerous plans of Krema II (there seem to be a couple of different versions) and I think I can make out what is happening now. The ducts terminate at flues in the old morgue three, and not in the room.

I presume because there are two flues there, that means the intake duct was drawing fresh air from it, whilst the exhaust duct was expelling foul air up the other one.

Pelty seems to have been liberal with all his duct openings! Who the hell, or how the hell did they go around opening and closing all these? Must have been a very long-winded process.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:02 pm)

No matter what absurdities the True Believers attempt, Revisionists have them covered.

Here are two links to Revisionist Forum discussions that are related to this thread:

Zyklon-B wire mesh insertion devices debunked:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=309

Dr. Green's Claim Of Zyklon-B Pellet Withdrawal:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1137

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:38 pm)

I have to say 'I am appalled by some of these so-called plans' Can you clarify for me Sailor, whether it is common practice for German architects not to use scale rulers whilst drawing plans?

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/aus ... detail.jpg

For me, I cannot help thinking that this has been traced freehand from another drawing.

I do not believe an architect or anyone else involved in construction would have two doors hung in a manner that would cause them to collide when open. As is the case with the two sets of double doors (lift and morgue) at the bottom right of this picture.

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Postby Temporary on hold » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:53 pm)

During a debate with a Nizkorite the blueprint of morgue 1 shown in this thread was brought forth as "proof" of homicidal gas chambers. The nizkorite thought he had scored a decisive blow with this blueprint. Specifically, he thought he had brought final proof in the venting ducts. He said that the german writing at lower left specifically spelled out "blown exhaust" in german making it a cyanide gas clearing device.


I calmly asked this man why the 'gas chamber' designers had included cyanide blowers yet somehow forgot to put Zyklon introduction ports on the roof? At that point I was set upon by site members as a "Holocaust denier"...


(Don't think any of the fools I was debating had any inkling of revisionism)

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:01 am)

Turpitz wrote: For me, I cannot help thinking that this has been traced freehand from another drawing.

I do not believe an architect or anyone else involved in construction would have two doors hung in a manner that would cause them to collide when open. As is the case with the two sets of double doors (lift and morgue) at the bottom right of this picture.


It is common practice in Germany (and the US) to place the applicable scale into the title block at the right lower corner of the drawing.

I think that in this case Nizkor lifted (or drew) the detail off a larger plan and therefore does not show the scale.

Your observation about the colliding doors (morgue 1 and corpse lift) is interesting. The center beam of the morgue terminates directly above the door of the morgue. This is unusual, since the beam which carries the weight of the morgue ceiling has to be supported from the ground floor up and the morgue door opening would interfere with this. The morgue entrance door should be shifted to the left.

To Temporary on hold:
On which drawing is shown on the lower left the German for "blown exhaust"?

fge


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