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Sailor
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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:42 am)

Temporary on hold wrote:I think there's some confusion here. The intake ducts could not have come directly from the fresh air outside because the air needed to be warmed before entry into the morgue. I'm not 100% sure which ducts are being referred to, which is why I'm asking.


Morgues are usually cooled to slow down the decomposing process of the body. That was the reason why morgue 1 was underground with 50 cm of dirt on top of the ceiling for insulation.

Because of the high groundwater level and the resulting buoyancy forces, morgue 1 was only partially constructed underground, part of it was sticking out. I.e. to cut down the uplifting forces.

The only time heating of the incoming fresh air was required was when the outside temperature was way below zero and the bodies had to be kept from freezing.

The reason I'm pointing this out is because Gauss's figure 26 note e specifies "Ventilation outlet channel". The specific word "outlet" makes me ask if this means "exhaust". If this refers to the exhaust duct then that was on the floor (actually outside the building), not on the ceiling.

What gives indication of the ductwork shown in figure 26 as being the 'intake' duct is the fact that it terminates in the c area inside the crematorium building. If this was the alleged exhaust duct it wouldn't be blowing cyanide exhaust into the crematorium and its ignition sources (not to mention lethal gas).


As far as I know, the area C (autopsy room) was provided with a separate air exhaust system, with its own separate ventilator, and was not connected to the exhaust system of morgue 1.

The area C could have been connected to the fresh air supply system of morgue 1 though.

Rudolf's sketch in Fig. 26 is somewhat misleading here.

Is there anything there that prevents the ducts being taken below the floor where it crosses? Would this have been impossible due to design?


No. The exhaust ducts could certainly cross the morgue below the floor. However it should be kept in mind that the design civil engineer may have provided for an expansion joint where the morgue floor attaches to the main building. This would at least be the praxis in the US.

Another solution would be to go around the morgue at the far end with the duct. But Rudolf did not show it this way.

fge

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:01 pm)

Temporary on hold:

I think there's some confusion here. The intake ducts could not have come directly from the fresh air outside because the air needed to be warmed before entry into the morgue.


They drew warm air from the furnace in an attempt to stop the morgue freezing.


Sailor:

There are supposedly 'two' ducts either side of the morgue, one at the head of the wall (intake) and one at the foot (exhaust). Neither of these ducts originate or terminate directly to the exterior of the building, their source and termination are both within the shell of the building. This means that 'two' ducts have to cross that morgue, both an intake and an exhaust.


Sailor:

The triangular shaped ducts underneath the ceiling are fresh air supply ducts. The left one has to cross somehow the beam which supports the ceiling, join the right hand duct, then go up to the attic to the ventilator and out through the roof.


And what about the exhaust duct which seems to terminate in the flue in the supposed old morgue three?


Image

A and B show the ducts and there origin/termination, although the industry seems to have forgotten to add the duct runs for drawing the warm air. They seem to not really know what to do about it. They disappear on frequent occasions and travel through the length of walls. They are making it up as they go along.

Take a look at 'C' who ever saw such steps? The threshold of the smaller steps cut right across the larger steps! No genuine architect would draw such childish mistakes.


Sailor:

The morgue entrance door should be shifted to the left.


It cannot be moved to the left, because of the corpse chute. The industry knew this, that is why they decided a single swing door was to be fitted. This is odd to have a single door, when one wants to cram 800 people in through the entrance.

Sailor:

In order to add these ducts after the construction completion


Is it being suggested that these ducts were installed 'after' the completion of the basic structure?

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:30 pm)

Turpitz wrote:And what about the exhaust duct which seems to terminate in the flue in the supposed old morgue three?

The ducts are shown dotted which indicates that they are combined underdround just west of the entrance wall (east wall) of morgue 1, then continue to morgue 3 and go up through the flue to the attic.

Sailor:
The morgue entrance door should be shifted to the left.

Turpitz:
It cannot be moved to the left, because of the corpse chute. The industry knew this, that is why they decided a single swing door was to be fitted. This is odd to have a single door, when one wants to cram 800 people in through the entrance.

I was talking about the entrance wall to morgue 1, not the main entrance to the whole basement.

Sailor:
In order to add these ducts after the construction completion

Turpitz:
Is it being suggested that these ducts were installed 'after' the completion of the basic structure?

If I remember correctly, this is from van Pelt's book. He said that the morgue 1 was originally planned as a morgue, but that the SS later had a new idea and changed it into a homicidal gas chamber by adding the underground external exhaust ducts.
How this can be done is simply beyond me.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:36 pm)

The ducts are shown dotted which indicates that they are combined underdround just west of the entrance wall (east wall) of morgue 1, then continue to morgue 3 and go up through the flue to the attic.


Yes, but the point that matters is that they can be seen to clearly cross the morgue. You suggest that they are combined, are you meaning the intake is combined with the exhaust? Well that is incredible, I mean that is like tee-ing a foul water pipe into a fresh water pipe, I have never known such antics and I simply cannot see how it would work without putting exhaust residues back into the morgue.

I was talking about the entrance wall to morgue 1, not the main entrance to the whole basement.


So was I. If you look on other drawings, you will notice that the bottom of the corpse chute is not very far from the swing of these doors. It would be a tight squeeze to move the entrance door much further to the left. The industry has to have the doors swing out you see. But they were never designed like that. The problems have arisen because the industry created them. We are sort of, jammed between the elevator and the morgue chute.

Image

If I remember correctly, this is from van Pelt's book. He said that the morgue 1 was originally planned as a morgue, but that the SS later had a new idea and changed it into a homicidal gas chamber by adding the underground external exhaust ducts.
How this can be done is simply beyond me.


Now we are getting somewhere! So Van-Pelt proposes the ducts were installed under the foundations at a later date. This is the sort of garbage one would expect from a person who would have absolutely no idea of the subject matter, or indeed would never have even contemplated undertaking such a task.

Why put the exhaust ducts at the foot of the exterior face of the morgue walls?

Just why did they do it that way?

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Postby Temporary on hold » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:25 pm)

Playing devil's advocate here trying to sort things out:


1) If these blueprints are industry fakes then why didn't they include the damning evidence of drawn-in Zyklon chimney's on the roof? Perhaps they knew they couldn't match them to any existing holes?


2) If the bottom level exhaust channels were outside the walls and really existed, would they still be evident in the crumbled ruins?

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:37 pm)

1) If these blueprints are industry fakes then why didn't they include the damning evidence of drawn-in Zyklon chimney's on the roof? Perhaps they knew they couldn't match them to any existing holes?


The obvious thing to note about this rubbish is that they are not roof plans. They show no roof details at all. These were more than likely knocked up at the end of the war, when they were still deliberating whether the Germans used furnaces, steam, electric floors, diesel, conveyer belts or rampaging mobile bone crushers. All this was being pondered on, just after the SS had had their last bicycle race around the morgue. And they cannot add them now because they are widely known, maybe in the coming years they might miraculously find another 'recently discovered' set of plans that show them.....It has been known before you know.

You will also take note that these show no 'chicken wire things' These are a later addition to the industries ever evolving bullshit as well. Even though they should be included, as they are part of the internal fixtures of the morgue and not the roof. The Russian/Poles could have never forseen that forty years down the line the industry would invent such objects. The Russians have always been crude and almost agricultural in their thoughts, it was so typical to their way of thinking that they would suggest the Zyklon pellets were just chucked through windows onto the floor. In more recent years, the industry has had to refine the original lies somewhat.

2) If the bottom level exhaust channels were outside the walls and really existed, would they still be evident in the crumbled ruins?


Of course they would! That's why they won't let anyone near them.

They are not there though, because no normal person would construct them in such a ridiculous and virtually impossible manner, especially considering the environment these structures were built in.

No-one has looked to see if these walls exist, at least when these plans were knocked up, that is why the foundations on the cross section are completely wrong. I mean what sort of dunce would use strip foundations on a water-logged marshland, for a building under the water table?

Now watch you head on that door!

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:32 pm)

So after the original structure was built, Pelty reckons the Germans added a forced air ductwork/ventilation/extraction system like this:

Image

Exhaust and inlet travel down the exterior face of the morgue and then travel 'under' the structure.

Image

When they have traversed the underside of the morgue they then return upward and tee into the vent system on the other side.

Image

After which they then go through the footings of the main building and under the floor slab.

Image

After running under the floor slab, they then return upward once again, through the floor slab and travel up the face of the interior wall, through the ceiling slab and into the roofspace.


I beg your pardon, but I do not believe him.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:07 pm)

Engineer Turpitz wrote:I beg your pardon, but I do not believe him [van Pelt].

I don’t believe this either. I am certain that all outside sections of the air ducts were of brick and were water tight, at least those parts which were underground.

Have you checked out Pressac’s book on this?
It is on http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0002.htm

By the way, which CAD program are you using, and how did you get the pictures displayed here?

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:11 am)

Who made those 3-D graphics? Those are something else! Revisionists could benefit from graphics like that, especially when one sees the little openings of the ovens, and how small a room it's in. People could really understand the question of "where are you going to store all the bodies that are waiting to be cremated?"

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:32 am)

I am certain that all outside sections of the air ducts were of brick and were water tight, at least those parts which were underground.



The thought of splitting the morgue in half and building ducts out of brickwork, suspended in this most vulnerable of environments, of water saturated loam directly under the morgue makes me shudder; it oozes the incompetence of a Van-Pelt. The Germans knowing the nature of the environment could not even build the morgue fully underground. Knowing this, why on earth would they then want to construct flimsy brickwork ducts at an even more vulnerable depth than the morgue itself and directly underneath 500 tons of morgue? Added to this, given the colossal loads of the morgue sat right on top of them, serious alterations would have been required to the morgue foundations to allow them to span the ducts, and allow the brittle ducts to pass underneath, which would have severe implications to those stupid ducts that run along the feet of the wall.
Brick ducts under the morgue would not last five minutes; one could not invent a worse material to use if they tried. The slightest heave from the ground not to mention the loads from the morgue and upward thrusts from the ever changing water table would cause them to split on the perps in no time, they are way too brittle and could not tolerate the slightest disturbance. They would have to be built on their own huge raft foundation to try and stop them submerging and aid their load spread, but then this would give the upward thrusts a large surface area to work against in the opposite direction. It’s all nigh on impossible and an utterly ridiculous scenario given the conditions.

When the Germans initially set out to build these morgues at Birkenau, they must have spent a great deal of time figuring out the realistic depth that they could build to in such an environment. Once they had decided on the maximum depth one could build to, they would have stuck to it. I cannot therefore see them at a later date deciding to build brickwork ducts at a depth that they knew from previous calculations was out of the question…Absolutely no way! Germans do not work in such a Laurel and Hardy manner. I have worked right across Germany and they are most precise in their manner and almost clinical in the execution of their designs.

Why may I ask do ‘none’ of the cross-sections (scribbles) show any of this elaborate and convoluted underground method? Are you suggesting those out of scale, stunted, little dotted lines on the floor plan are all the construction workers had to build by? The plans show me nothing about the alterations to the foundations that would be required to span the ducts. They also tell me nothing about how this would affect the supposed brick ducts that run along the feet of the walls.

Even if the system was executed by a mad man, it is incredibly inefficient. Apart from the colossal amount of completely unnecessary work involved, there is only one take off point for the extraction system, which is up near the entrance to the morgue, the suction from the fans would dwindle the further it went down the morgue, especially given the amount of outlet grilles Pelty has drawn in on his completely invented cartoon, It would lose pressure in no time. You would end up with a dead zone at the far end of the morgue 100 feet away. Not to mention the fact that the runs are decidedly long and would be travelling in the cold environment underneath the morgue, I would like to suggest by the time the warm air had reached the morgue it would have been stone cold. What waterproof lagging did these ducts posses, if any? Induction motors were not available at this moment in time, only brush motors, I wonder if they were three phase or single?

As for any repairs or maintenance to this ludicrous set-up! Well with a system like this you would need to be rebuilding the morgue every other month.


Have you checked out Pressac’s book on this?


What ever possessed you to think I would want to wade through his worthless diatribe? Characters of his ilk are living on borrowed time my friend. Works by charlatans like him will be resigned to obscurity in the coming years and will be placed in the science fiction sections at libraries, if not dumped in the rubbish bin altogether. The works of Rudolph, Graf, Faurisson, Irving and Mattagno will replace garbage like his in the history sections of libraries. No I certainly would not venture toward the task of absorbing his writings at a time in history when as each day passes his outpourings become more and more derelict; I mean what a meaningless exercise in futility. For all his book’s fancy presentation and gleaming façade, I know the pages within are filled with redundant swill and painfully contorted lies. Faurisson sussed this little maggot out years ago, when he had false pretences of becoming a preacher of truth. Faurisson routed the little fraudster, who then jumped ship into the true believer camp, for a fair sum no-doubt!

True, you must know your enemy. But listening to Rudolph or Faurisson on Pressac is enough to put any thought of reading Pressac’s junk out of my mind completely. I also think that Pressac is a liar on two counts; first he is lying to himself because deep down I feel he does not believe in the industry lies, but just lacks the backbone to admit it, unlike men like Rudolph and Faurisson who are obviously made of far more sterner stuff than this snivelling little creep. And number two, because of his utter cowardice (The Zionist’s like these types, good for manipulation.) he pedals lies to others through his cowardly writings.

I had always believed ‘deniers’ were over the moon about Pressac’s dribble being put online, not for a source of reference, but just somewhere to go when they wanted a laugh.

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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:06 am)

Your opinion of Pressac seems to be in line with Rudolf, who advised not to waste any more time with Pressac's book.

Pressac's last book "Die Krematorien von Auschwitz" includes detail drawings of the air duct runs inside the crematorium attic (the ventilators were installed inside the attic space), and where they go down into the morgue.
But then it stops. The details how these ducts inter-connect with the ducts inside of morgue 1 are not shown.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:15 am)

I think I have found the flaw, but I must ponder it a while.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:43 pm)

Image

Notice on this mock up how the lower duct doesn't cross the morgue as on all the communist plans. But seems to be going through the wall footings and straight into the supposed stairs on the other side. That morgue is also too low in the ground as well. It projected out of the ground far more than this on the 'photos' of the camps. Ever wonder why there is always a train funnel or mound of earth covering this particular corner?

Image

Image

There seem to be various walls and for the life of me I cannot see any waterproof membrane on any of them. Every plan I have seen specifically shows a vertical Damp proof.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:20 am)

Image

I would also like to draw your attention to this wall at Krema I. Now make no mistake, this wall is rough as rats. There is no way in the world that you could paint a bitumen VDPC on this because it is so poorly built and so full of voids. It would first have to be rendered to give a decent surface to paint the bitumen on. But there seems to be no render or bitumen on any face. You will also notice that the wall has many courses of headers (bricks laid with their end to the face) these are travelling right back into the wall, whilst bonding with headers on courses below. this makes it absolutely impossible for there to be a VDPC between the 'two' skins of brickwork -- simply because there are no 'two' skins!

These are NOT the walls that are on shown on any of the plans that I have seen.

Someone has built these walls after the war, or 'all' of the plans are forged take your pick.

If anyone who new there stuff was allowed near these ruins, they could take the industry apart in a morning.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:43 pm)

Image

Look at this! This is a pier underneath Krema II, It consists of bricks stacked on top of each other. This is bullshit, these buildings were hastily erected after the war by communists.


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