Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews / Netanyahu that's who

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neugierig
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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews

Postby neugierig » 4 years 1 month ago (Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:15 pm)

“The German government said on Wednesday that responsibility for the Holocaust lay with the Germans,…” (sorry, I’m too stupid to use the quote function).

The seed planted in 1945 is bearing fruit, but it took time. A while back I found an article in VfZ, the quarterly published by the IfZ, titled “Todesmühlen” (Death Mills, 1981, 3). It is about the efforts by the victors to vilify the NS regime, and have Germans, as a whole, accept responsibility. The usual material was assembled, pictures of bodies, the result of the collapse of the infrastructure because of the bombing. Anyway, the original effort, simply titled “KZ”, was abandoned, although shown in some locations
http://www.nrw.vvn-bda.de/bilder/kz.pdf

A final version was eventually concocted, they decided to call it “Death Mills”, all the while suggesting that most of the bodies shown were from people killed intentionally (strangely, in “KZ” no mention of Jews). On January 25, 1946 the film was shown in the American Zone. A survey done in Eichstätt, Bavaria, showed that most did not go to see it. Some arm twisting was done but after viewing the film, 87.9% stated they had no feeling of personal responsibility. And since the aim was to instill shame into Germans, to have them accept responsibility, feel guilty, the effort was considered a failure. This resulted in a scathing article published in Der Tagesspiegel, bemoaning the fact that 75% show no interest in seeing the film, those 75% are afraid to face the truth, and we, the rest of 25% are ashamed for them. So there!

That was then, now Germans as a whole are proudly wallowing in guilt feelings, giving me the creeps.

I also agree with EtienneSC, something bigger is afoot, Bibi is no fool.

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Wilf

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Re: Benjamin Netanyahu: Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews

Postby Hektor » 4 years 1 month ago (Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:21 pm)

Steve F wrote:There is already a thread on this topic here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9864

Just Noticed that.....Should it be merged?

Tomt wrote:So I wonder if his wik page is going to change to read "Benjamin Netanyahu is a holocaust denier and is prime minister of Israel."


Ah, that may be an idea... I see they debate this on the talk page right now.

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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews

Postby hermod » 4 years 1 month ago (Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:28 pm)

After seeing the Prime Minister of Israel deliver a brand new extermination dialogue to the world, I understand better why the 'Holocaust' is "the most documented event in history" as they say... :roll:

Bibi's "Burn them" almost killed me. Made my day. :lol:
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews

Postby neugierig » 4 years 1 month ago (Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:20 pm)

In Germany, Bibi repeated what he said earlier about the Mufti, that according to Die Welt
http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/ ... hesen.html

Nothing to do with Revision, just Palestinian bashing.

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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews

Postby torus » 4 years 1 month ago (Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:56 am)

I think Netanyahoo has a thing for frumpy German women. He enjoys Merkl's quick rush to appropriate blame upon the "Germans". That appropriation is itself veiled Holocaust denial Herr Merkl. As Martin Hmmelfarb once proclaimed, "No Hitler, No Holocaust". Good god, is Hitler in
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame yet? My commentary might be lame, but I'm not as lame as film maker Atom Egoyan. I watched him give an almost erotic synopsis of his new film "Remember". He salivated over Christopher Plummer's perfomance as he veiled Plummer's real reason he needed to "remember"; i.e., we must never forget!!!!
Turns out to be a Jewish revenge flick, how mind-numbingly LAME!! When in need of financial backing and contrived and scripted emotivity, invoke Hitler, the holocaust, and blood lust.

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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews

Postby borjastick » 4 years 1 month ago (Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:52 pm)

In Netanyahu's mind if the Mufti and his Palestinian hard boys did the holocaust the Palestinians are fair game today. Simples.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews / Netanyahu that's who

Postby torus » 4 years 1 month ago (Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:13 pm)

Dear reader. I'm certain Netanyahu's comment is "theatre". IDF atrocities, minimal Israeli death toll since 1948, tacit approval of Israeli expansionist/exterminationist policies, and Netanyahu's blood lust are well documented. The Palestinians appear to be "fair game" until the game is over. Merkl's flooding Germany with swarthy herds of young entrepeneurs that Israel would arrest and deport and she still finds time to play Netanyahu's game and bring home the bacon.

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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews / Netanyahu that's who

Postby truth » 4 years 1 month ago (Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:32 am)

Germany wants to be alone responsible for the HC. Germany does not share - just like a jealous lover. Lol.

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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews / Netanyahu that's who

Postby torus » 4 years 1 month ago (Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:42 pm)

Perhaps Frau Merkel is just too bashful to acknowledge that Stalin's methods were applied after 1945 throughout Eastern Europe. In every satellite state, concentration camps - in effect, DEATH CAMPS - were established. Just how murderous were communist overlords Frau Merkel? I'm sure I don't have to remind you about the cowardly butchery at Katyn. Or that when the Soviet army drove the Germans out of Poland, the NKVD and its communist puppets were especially ruthless in stamping out the ANTI-NAZI Polish underground. Along with being the best organized European resistance movement during WWII and thus a formidable barrier to communist rule, perhaps they, along with the Polish intelligentsia butchered at Katyn, would not be susceptible to post WWII fantasies...lampshades, etc.
Figuratively, you and the allies have fought long and hard for this Frau Merkel. Aiding and abetting the most murderous ideology in history.

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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews / Netanyahu that's who

Postby Dresden » 4 years 1 month ago (Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:29 pm)

truth said:

"Germany wants to be alone responsible for the HC. Germany does not share - just like a jealous lover. Lol"

That's right, truth.....like a drunk in the gutter grasping his bottle with all his strength.
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews

Postby Hektor » 4 years 1 month ago (Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:03 am)

neugierig wrote:“The German government said on Wednesday that responsibility for the Holocaust lay with the Germans,…” (sorry, I’m too stupid to use the quote function).

The seed planted in 1945 is bearing fruit, but it took time. A while back I found an article in VfZ, the quarterly published by the IfZ, titled “Todesmühlen” (Death Mills, 1981, 3). It is about the efforts by the victors to vilify the NS regime, and have Germans, as a whole, accept responsibility. The usual material was assembled, pictures of bodies, the result of the collapse of the infrastructure because of the bombing. Anyway, the original effort, simply titled “KZ”, was abandoned, although shown in some locations
http://www.nrw.vvn-bda.de/bilder/kz.pdf

A final version was eventually concocted, they decided to call it “Death Mills”, all the while suggesting that most of the bodies shown were from people killed intentionally (strangely, in “KZ” no mention of Jews). On January 25, 1946 the film was shown in the American Zone. A survey done in Eichstätt, Bavaria, showed that most did not go to see it. Some arm twisting was done but after viewing the film, 87.9% stated they had no feeling of personal responsibility. And since the aim was to instill shame into Germans, to have them accept responsibility, feel guilty, the effort was considered a failure. This resulted in a scathing article published in Der Tagesspiegel, bemoaning the fact that 75% show no interest in seeing the film, those 75% are afraid to face the truth, and we, the rest of 25% are ashamed for them. So there!

That was then, now Germans as a whole are proudly wallowing in guilt feelings, giving me the creeps.
...
The Allied psychological warfare specialists admit openly that the purpose of atrocity propaganda was to instill guilt and shame, or using an euphemism, "responsibility", in order to reeducate Germans:
Morris Janowitz German Reactions To Nazi Atrocities (September 1, 1946)
Early in the re-education of the German people the military government attempted to develop a sense of collective responsibility for results of National Socialism, especially for atrocities in concentration camps. Detailed interviews indicate that, before the Allied occupation, Germans were aware of the existence and function of concentration camps, although they did not know the details or extent. Almost universally, the individual German projects responsibility upon the Nazi party or the S.S. There is little evidence that exposure to the facts was developing a sense of need for greater personal participation in political life among the traditionally unpolitical.

During the first months of the occupation, the Psychological Warfare Branch of the United States Army, being charged with the control of public information in Germany, undertook a campaign through Radio Luxembourg, the controlled German- language press, and special posters and pamphlets to acquaint the German people with the extent and nature of concentration-camp atrocities. The development of a sense of collective responsibility was considered a prerequisite to any long-term education of the German people. Later, editorial comment drew a distinction between those legally guilty of having directly committed atrocities and those morally responsible for having allowed National Socialism to come into being and for having tolerated its crimes.
https://archive.org/details/MorrisJanow ... Atrocities
Shaming with guilt feelings is part of thought reform processes. While he uses the euphemism "responsibility", perhaps with the the knowledge of the terms importance in German culture, he later switches over to using guilt bluntly:
Not only was there still wide ignorance about the exact facts about the concentration camps, but we encountered what appeared to be Nazi-planted rumors, designed to contradict Allied statements. Most popular was the story that Buchenwald was used for the burial of air-raid victims.

ABSENCE OF FEELINGS OF GUILT

The main problem of the investigation was to supply the answers to such questions as "Under what circumstances did the Ger-
man people believe that atrocities were committed?" "Who is believed to have committed them?" "Who is to be held responsible, and how, in their opinion, can it be prevented from occurring again?"

Regardless of the amount and kind of knowledge of atrocities, there was an almost universal tendency to lay responsibility upon the Nazi party or the S.S. For example, of the seventy German civilians mentioned above, only three ascribed some element of guilt to the German people as a whole. It is important to note that they were among those who thought themselves to be well informed even before Germany was occupied. One of them was a professor of theology who ascribed to the German people a religious "hidden sense of guilt' 7 which has not developed out of the failure of the German people to live up to their political responsibilities but is rather their guilt as the result of the acts of the rulers, even though they did not fully know what those rulers were doing and were unable to control them. The other two were highly politicized Marxists who attributed a moral guilt to the German people for failure to prevent the Nazis from seizing power. But both were convinced that, once the seizure of power was effected, the German people were helpless and could not be charged with responsibility.

I mentioned thought reform and one may find it interesting that those accepting collective guilt first were a theologian and two Marxists. Another interesting observation I made was that brainwashed reeducated Germans deny any feeling of guilt as well, while they probably would use the term "accepting responsibility",(WILF may also have similar experiences) which is a bait and switch anyway. They accept the Holocaust Narrative unquestioned and will defend it, even when they realize they're dealing with informed, foreign critics. Interestingly In the later stages of thought reform, the "reformed" also becomes one of the accusers and the (collective) self-incrimination serves as a kind of qualifier (but read that up in the literature on thought reform itself). Fact is that the German elite accepts and defends the narrative fanatically and part of their dogma is the "collective responsibility" aka guilt of the German people.

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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews / Netanyahu that's who

Postby neugierig » 4 years 1 month ago (Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:27 pm)

Thanks for this Hektor, you are of course bang on. It was crucial for the victors to successfully install the guilt feeling into all of Germans. The IfZ article mentioned above shows the efforts made to achieve this. Quite astonishing, for if real evidence of mass murder would have existed, Germans would have had to accept it. But the body piles were no evidence of intentional wrong doing, i.e., mass murder, Germans knew it was the consequence of the collapse of the infrastructure because of the bombing.

We also read in the article that the victors needed Germans to feel guilty to accept occupation and to not criticize conditions in Allied POW camps.

Interestingly, critical voices were still heard in the 1970s, no more, the old generation is dead and this brainwashed junk populating Germany enjoys wallowing in guilt, gladly believing every lie told.

Norman Finkelstein, for one, is not convinced that this is real. In an article titled: “Counterfeit Courage: Reflections on "political correctness" in Germany” he raises interesting issues, he wrote:

“To account for Germany’s obsession with the Nazi holocaust, a German friend explained that Germans “like to carry a load.” To which I would add: especially if it’s light as a feather.”
http://normanfinkelstein.com/2002/11/15 ... n-germany/

We happened to be in Germany in 2002, and in a bookstore in my home town I asked if “Die Holocaust-Industrie” (Piper-Verlag), by Norman Finkelstein is available. You could have heard a pin drop, there were several customers in the store, my younger brother also. The owner just shook his head, obviously being very uncomfortable. I later returned, I knew him, and he admitted that Germans should educate themselves better on the subject. We were alone then, of course.

One wonders how many have second thoughts by now but are afraid to ask questions. They should do so, now, for if they don’t, das Merkel will destroy Germany, gladly following orders.

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Wilf

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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews / Netanyahu that's who

Postby hermod » 4 years 1 month ago (Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:24 pm)

neugierig wrote:But the body piles were no evidence of intentional wrong doing, i.e., mass murder, Germans knew it was the consequence of the collapse of the infrastructure because of the bombing.


Why did the U.S. forces distribute posters as the one below if the Germans knew that they were only looking at bombing-linked typhus bodies?

Image
"Diese Schandtaten: Eure Schuld!" ("These atrocities: Your fault!") Propaganda poster used in occupied Germany after World War II. This poster and other posters like it were distributed in occupied Germany in the summer of 1945, immediately after World War II. There was an Allied directive to Allied press agencies stating that the goal of these demonstrations was to convince the German population of their collective guilt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazific ... Schuld.jpg


And in opinion surveys conducted shortly after WW2, the traumatized Germans responded things as this:

Statement....................................Percentage agreeing

Hitler was right in his treatment of the Jews: 0%
Hitler went too far in his treatment of the Jews, but something had to be done to keep them in bounds: 19%
The actions against the Jews were in no way justified: 77%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification#Surveys
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews / Netanyahu that's who

Postby neugierig » 4 years 1 month ago (Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:37 pm)

Hermod, sorry, but I don’t exactly know what you are getting at. Of course Germans were appalled when shown the body piles, they knew however that it was no evidence of intentionally wrong doing, i.e., mass murder. But that is all the Allies had.

Still, and that is why this IfZ article is revealing, in spite of all the original efforts, Germans did not feel responsible, therefore the beat had to go on. The Frankfurt Auschwitz trial, followed by this Eichmann show, were all steps on the way. And now, success, finally, the new Germans, as a whole, are convinced, save for a few exceptions.

I’ll translate some of the more telling parts of the article, if I feel up to it.

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Wilf

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Re: Guess who thinks Hitler didn't want to kill the Jews / Netanyahu that's who

Postby HeiligeSturm » 4 years 1 month ago (Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:50 am)

phdnm wrote:The German government responded quickly!

NO revisionism about the "holocaust"!

And I see no reason to change our view of history in any way


Germans are eternally guilty!


I think we all know Angela Merkel's patrons.
AngelaMerkel-in-TelAviv-Netanyahu.jpg
w-merkel-112612.jpg
Carol Stulberg: Were you ever in the gas chamber? Did you see the gas chamber?
Morris Venezia: Of course I was every day over there.
Carol Stulberg: Can you describe to us what it looked like?
Morris Venezia: It’s nothing to describe


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