sfivdf21 wrote:Hello Lamprecht, thanks again for your information. When I meant with that the United States was not an antisemit country in the 1930s and 1940s, I meant its rulers, not the American people as a whole. I know Henry Ford and his brave work in opposing the international Jewry (the Jews have always been very powerful in the United States and in the 1920s they were already the undisputed rulers of that country). And there is no doubt that many Americans at that time were antisemitic (and with good reason).
Well the USA at the time did not have as many Jews in positions of power and influence as Germany did, seemingly. Also, Americans were at the top and were short-sighted and lacked vigilance. Some (such as Lindbergh, Ford, Coughlin, Patton, etc) saw what was happening and spoke out against it. Clearly it did not work.
Since I see that you are an American and you know the history of your country very well, I would like to ask you the following questions about some doubts I have about the attitude of the American society in the WW2:
- If the most Americans were antisemitic, why did they vote for Franklin D. Roosevelt (a president who, as Charles Lindbergh said, served the Jewish interests and was surrounded by Jewish advisers)?
FDR had economic policies that seemingly helped with the "Great Depression" that was going on at the time. FDR was not overturning immigration laws and allowing Jews to flood into the country by the millions, instead laws were being passed to stop European Jews from immigrating here. FDR was elected president (again) in 1940 on an anti-war platform but we see how that turned out. Like I said, the war was not marketed to Americans as "We need to do this to save the Jews" or anything like that.
- If the most Americans were antisemitic, why didn't they support Adolf Hitler in his heroic crusade against the Judeo-Bolshevik tyranny (I remember hearing a speech by the Führer in which he says that he has nothing against the United States of America and he knew that the lies of the Jewish owned American press and media did not represent the views of millions of American citizens, it's also well known that Hitler not only wanted peace but also made several public proposals to the United States, Great Britain and France to ally with Germany to fight together the communist threat of the East)?
Americans were not speaking German at the time and were not so worried about Hitler. Coughlin I mentioned previously reached 10s of millions of Americans every week with his broadcasts. These broadcasts were eventually banned and he was taken off the air!
Most importantly: the American public lacked vigilance. Americans did not want anything to do with the war until Pearl Harbor. Even before that American civilians were being sent in passenger liners to the UK despite warnings that these boats would be shot on sight.
- The famous Jewish campaign to boycott all German Goods in 1933 was originated in the United States and had much popular support there, if most Americans were antisemitic why they supported it?
How much did American gentiles actually support this?
This JPost article seems to imply mainly it was leftist/socialist groups and Jews that supported it prior to the war breaking out:Who boycotted the Nazis and who didn’t?http://archive.vn/ebGX0
It says there was opposition to the boycott from both sides of the political spectrum. It does say that "Gallup polls found most Americans in sympathy with the boycott" - why would that be? Perhaps how it was marketed. For example, here is a 1934 JTA article which claims that the "Hitlerites" were boycotting American Jews:U.S. Hitlerites Push Boycott of American Jewshttp://archive.vn/3h6vZ
Actually that was an article about pro-Hitler Americans, but I can see how Americans could have majority opposed it in a poll where the question stipulated that the boycott applied to Americans of Jewish ancestry as well.
- If most Americans were antisemitic, why didn't they try to overthrow Roosevelt when he declared war on Germany and why millions of them decided to join in an army that clearly served Jewish interests?
Americans were too shocked by Pearl Harbor. One could ask "If Americans like the constitution and bill of rights, why did they allow laws to be passed after 9/11 that violated their constitutional rights?"
Well, people get angry and want blood after a terrorist attack happens.
The Spanish–American War of 1898 began largely in response to an explosion of an American ship which was blamed on Spain, although later reports have concluded that the ship blew up on its own. Does that matter? No, not really. Americans were told that Spain blew it up (why?) and they wanted revenge. Correct them and they don't want to hear it.
I think most were just ignorant of what was really going on. The US was not really even neutral when Hitler "Declared war" on the USA, which was really just a recognition that a state of war already existed (whether the American public was privy to it or not) and that a formal declaration was now necessary since it was unavoidable anyway.
- If most Americans were antisemitic, why were not divisions of American volunteers organized in the Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS (it would not be unreasonable to think that, in some countries with anti-German governments such as France, Belgium or Holland there were so many Volunteers from these countries in the Waffen-SS, for example in World War II there were more French people who fought for the Vichy France and served as Waffen-SS volunteers than the French people who fought for the "Free" France and the Resistance against the German occupation)?
It makes sense that these countries in Europe would have more volunteers because they were at a bigger risk in regards to the USSR invading them and also had a longer history of anti-Jewish movements in their countries. America did not have that at all since it was a brand new country with no prior history of Jews. The closest thing we have to a Jewish expulsion is Grant's "General Order No. 11" during the Civil War; it was temporary and the disastrous nature of the war itself probably overshadowed most from knowing about it, and it is not really taught.
Also, unlike these smaller European countries, the USSR was not seen as a military threat to the USA. USSR never really was much of a military threat until Jewish communists stole the US nuclear weapons research and gave it to the USSR so they could develop their own atomic weapons. Even after, the USSR decided to use psychological warfare / ideological subversion instead of any sort of direct military confrontation with the USA.
Americans of German descent, like German-Canadian Bruno Friesen, would have probably joined the Wehrmacht. If they did join the German army they would have either had to keep it hushed up and never return or quietly switch sides whenever Hitler declared war on the USA. I don't think we would be hearing about it much.
It is easy to look at these developments in hindsight but we are talking about a population that was mostly ignorant of what was going on in the world, did not have internet and therefore were dependent on newspapers mostly to figure out what was happening. And in the USA it was perfectly legal to have segregation and to discriminate based on race or ethnicity. So, if someone wanted "No Jews" they could just say that, and examples were given of US immigration policies and US universities greatly limiting the number of Jews allowed in.
For the most part the American public was isolationist, that is why Pearl Harbor was so pivotal. FDR clearly was not isolationist (for whatever reason) even though he pretended to be in order to get reelected.
Suggested thread (I plan to reply to it with more content soonish):The Ideological shift in the USA (and West) after WWII and why it happened + Yuri Bezmenovviewtopic.php?t=13209
I agree with you, there is no doubt that if General George S. Patton had not died shortly after the end of the war and have presented himself as a candidate for the US presidency the history (and therefore the American public opinion about the Jews, Adolf Hitler , Germany and the role that the United States had in the Second World War) would have been radically different from the one that exists today. If Patton had been elected President of the United States (he had enough popularity to win the elections) Germany would have ceased to be an occupied country (and therefore would be a free country today) and it would have restored the Nationalsocialist regime (even after the war Patton always expressed that he wanted to have the German Nationalsocialists as allies of the United States in a possible war against the Soviet Union), the Jews would no longer be the rulers of the United States and Europe and it would took place a new crusade against international Jewry (this time led by Patton instead Hitler) that would count on the restored European Fascisms as allies of the United States. If Patton had not died in an "accident" (although the ideal would have been that Hitler had won the war), we would live in a much better world with fewer wars and social injustice and without Jewish supremacy and communism. George S. Patton was a hero who fought on the wrong side and against the wrong enemy (and realized it after the war).
You may be overestimating what impact one person has. When Eisenhower was president he instituted "Operation Wetback" but would Americans today support such a thing? A lot would but as a law it could never get passed today.
Most people did not think very far ahead nor did they even care to. They were busy with their jobs and families and did not have the time or energy to worry about much of this. They might have read the newspapers but otherwise I don't think they really knew much about it. It's hard to fathom a pre-internet world but that's what they had, no computers either. If they wanted to learn something they had to drive their archaic automobile to the library and grab the encyclopedia.
People did speak out but it was not an organized and concerted effort like after the war as television began spreading into every household. Most Americans just did not care, they saw that they were at the top and had a culture of "Just leave me alone and we can get along fine."
They saw the world around them only one day at a time. They didn't see the trends. This still has not changed for 95%+ of the population and it likely will not without some cataclysmic event like Pearl Harbor or 9/11, and even then they will probably listen only to the loudest voice, the one which seems to have the most authority behind it.
The war was not sold to the American public as some sort of liberation of the European Jews. It was instead "Let's just go finish up what is going on in Europe and then move on to Japan so we can get our revenge" complete with all sorts of atrocity propaganda which the English-language press already was spreading because of British involvement in the war.
Only after the war was it phrased in this manner, and this did have an effect on Americans but it was slow, gradual. Jews were careful to not bring attention to themselves and with their movements would often use gentiles as figureheads. Malcom X derided Jews for being so heavily involved in the "Civil Rights" movement because he said they were motivated not by actual belief in racial equality but knew that if Americans were focused on Blacks or angry at them, they would be too busy to focus on Jews and their behavior. I think that is correct for a lot of people and could help to explain what is going on even today in this country. Still, it took decades for the USA to get rid of all of the supposedly "racist" laws and such. Jews, remembering what happened to them under Hitler (real or imagined) were more inclined to deny or hide their ethnically-driven motivations for their involvement in such ideological movements. Notably also, after the Hungarian uprising in 1956 a lot of the leading Jewish communists in Eastern Europe were replaced by gentiles; something of the sort also happened right after the war in Russia under Stalin.
Someone once said:"The price of liberty is eternal vigilance."
Well, I can't disagree with that. It is easy to say "Well if they didn't like Jews, why did they allow ____ to happen?" in hindsight, but most Americans at the time had no idea what was going on and were not inclined to think very far ahead. Indeed, Americans lacked vigilance. Will they learn their lesson? Probably not any time soon, but hopefully one day.