Roundup of Poles and Eastern Europeans during WWII (łapanka)

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aa1874
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Roundup of Poles and Eastern Europeans during WWII (łapanka)

Postby aa1874 » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:36 am)

So I heard about the Polish and Eastern European łapanka(roundup) today. Here's what (((Wikipedia))) has to say about it:

A roundup was a widespread German World War II security and economic exploitation tactic used in occupied countries, especially in German-occupied Poland in which the SS, Wehrmacht and German police took captive at random thousands of civilians on the streets of subjugated cities. The civilians were captured in groups of unsuspecting passers-by or kidnapped from selected city quarters that had been surrounded in advance by German forces.

Those caught in roundups were most often sent to slave labour in Germany, but some were also taken as hostages or executed in reprisal actions; imprisoned and sent to concentration camps or summarily executed in numerous ethnic-cleansing operations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup_(history)

I tried to search CODOH archives and IHR about this but there are no results of resources needed to refute this. This only makes German occupation of Europe something "evil", are there any resources refuting this?

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Re: Roundup of Poles and Eastern Europeans during WWII (łapanka)

Postby Goethe » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:19 pm)

The ridiculous claim refutes itself.

Besides the normal & routine roundup of suspected saboteurs and common criminals that the Allies also engaged in, I see no proof at all that such "roundups" as alleged occurred.
Allegations by biased interests are not proof.
You seem to be just reciting Zionist & communist propaganda for which Wikipedia is notorious for.

As has been posted elsewhere:
Seriously? Laughable Zionist controlled Wikipedia?
It’s amazing why anyone would cite Wikipedia as a reference for anything which Jews have a special interest in promoting. It's rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.

Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet
http://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-a ... =wikipedia

Wikipedia Co-Founder: Site’s Neutrality Is ‘Dead’ Thanks to Leftist Bias</b>
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/05/ ... tist-bias/
"The coward threatens when he is safe".
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Re: Roundup of Poles and Eastern Europeans during WWII (łapanka)

Postby aa1874 » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:31 am)

Goethe wrote:The ridiculous claim refutes itself.

Besides the normal & routine roundup of suspected saboteurs and common criminals that the Allies also engaged in, I see no proof at all that such "roundups" as alleged occurred.
Allegations by biased interests are not proof.
You seem to be just reciting Zionist & communist propaganda for which Wikipedia is notorious for.


Interesting! I didn't know that the Allies also did roundups too. Any resources on that?

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Re: Roundup of Poles and Eastern Europeans during WWII (łapanka)

Postby Goethe » 2 months 2 weeks ago (Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:45 am)

No offense, but we're still waiting for proof of what you claim. Your 'anyone can caption a photo' images certainly weren't it.

Do you really think that the Allies just ignored common criminal suspects?

However, there were definitely "roundups" of non-criminal civilians by the Allies:

Image
Japanese-American roundup

Image
Soviet rapes, roundup of civilians

Image
roundup of civilians by Allies

Image
roundup of French civilian women

Image
women roundup by Allies

Image
Soviet treatment of civilians
"The coward threatens when he is safe".
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Re: Roundup of Poles and Eastern Europeans during WWII (łapanka)

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 1 week ago (Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:13 pm)

aa1874 wrote:Interesting! I didn't know that the Allies also did roundups too. Any resources on that?

I suggest the following article/chapter from "Dissecting the Holocaust" (2019 version):

Reprisals and Orders from Higher Up
http://archive.is/Q1iK0#calibre_link-1839 or http://web.archive.org/web/202002292123 ... _link-1839

An excerpt:
In the Second World War, the practice of taking and killing hostages was continued by all parties involved. The fact that it occurred frequently on the German side may be partially explained by the great extent of the enemy territory occupied by fairly weak military forces, but also by the fanatical resistance of the population of these occupied regions, who paid no heed to the relevant regulations of the Hague Land Warfare Convention of 1907.

Since the attitude of the civilians towards the German soldiers was more positive in Italy than in the other European countries, few executions of hostages and reprisal prisoners took place there, apart from the special incident of the “Fosse Ardeatine” (March 24, 1944).

Between 1941 and 1944 executions were especially numerous in the Balkans, where partisan activities were particularly widespread. In this respect, the Chief of the Wehrmacht Supreme Command issued an order on September 16, 1941, which named the vengeance death of 50 to 100 Communists per German soldier as generally appropriate ratio.2297 On the basis of this order, an attack of bandits at Topola (resulting in 22 dead and 16 missing on the German side) was followed by the order to execute 2,200 prisoners; 449 were in fact executed.2298 There were also numerous other instances of hostage killing, but the ratio of 1:100 was never applied.

The war in Russia also led to reprisals. Paget,2299 for example, reports that 50 hostages were shot in Simferopol in the Crimea, after executions at a ratio of 1:100 had been threatened as vengeance against bomb explosions where Germans were killed.

In the Belgian trial of General von Falkenhausen, the conditions in Belgium and northern France were discussed in detail. In particular, an extensive collection of documents was presented, which Behling has supplemented with a chronological table of the executions.2300

This was a case of numerous attacks by partisans. Reprisal executions followed in each case; the ratio of victims of the attacks to hostages executed varied from 1:5 to 1:25. Generally, 10 Belgians or French were shot per German killed.2301 The number depended on the circumstances of each particular case, for example on the severity of the attack.

In one case, after a German soldier was murdered in Haarlem, Holland, the execution of 100 prisoners was ordered; 10 were actually shot.2302

There is no need to go into details here, since the German side always took pains to establish the permissibility of reprisals and reprisal killings. Examples from the opposing sides, on the other hand, are more impressive. The aforementioned collection of documents from the Falkenhausen Trial contains extensive materials on this topic.2303 We shall just mention the following example.

After the capture of Bengasi, Montgomery stated that he believed that numerous mines and traps had been set in the city. For every British soldier that was killed, he would have 10 Italians shot.2304 A November 30, 1944, radio message from the Allied headquarters in Paris stated:2305

“Regarding General Leclerq’s proclamation in Strassbourg, according to which 5 hostages were to be shot for every French soldier killed in ambush, Headquarters has ordered that Allied expedition troops operate in accordance with the Geneva Convention of 1929 and especially its Article 2, which states that reprisals against prisoners of war are prohibited.

Under martial law, however, taking hostages in order to ensure that the inhabitants of the occupied territory obey the orders of the military government is permitted by the laws of warfare. Such hostages may be tried in court, and even sentenced to death.

Therefore, under certain circumstances – especially in cases where civilians have violated the orders of the Geneva Convention – the threat expressed by General Leclerq may be enforced, but not against prisoners of war.”

According to Falkenhausen Document 58a, 6 officers and 34 soldiers were executed at Annecy (Haute Savoie), and another 40 Germans at Habère, as reprisal for atrocities allegedly committed by a Russian battalion.

On April 24, 1945, in Reutlingen, Württemberg, four reprisal prisoners were shot by the French for the murder of a French soldier.2306 On April 28, 1945, the following announcement was made in Leutkirchen:2307

“[…] 4. If a German shoots at Frenchmen, or if any other incident whatsoever happens, 5 houses will be torched and 100 Germans executed.

[…] 6. I am responsible, on pain of my own death, to ensure that these orders are enforced […] the Mayor […]”

In Markdorf, 4 German civilians were executed per 1 French soldier shot.2308

In Saulgau it was proclaimed on April 27, 1945, that if a French soldier were killed or even only wounded, 20 hostages would be shot and the corresponding city district would be burned to the ground.2309

The Berlin Ordinance of July 1, 1945,2310 stated, inter alia:

“Anyone who commits an attack on a member of the occupation forces or on a bearer of official functions, or who commits arson for reasons of political enmity, seals not only his own fate but that of 50 former members of the Nazi Party as well. Their lives are forfeit together with that of the assassin or arsonist.”

Falkenhausen Document 74 tells of the execution of 8-12 Germans for one officer killed during the American march-in in Treseburg.

Further threats of reprisal killings were proven in the SouthEast Trial in Nuremberg in Case VII;2311 examples include a ratio of 1:25 in Stuttgart, 1:10 in Birkenfeld, 1:30 in Markdorf, and an American threat of 1:200 in Harz. Hoppe2312 mentions further that the Americans took French officials hostage in 1941 in Syria; as well, the Russians took Persian officers hostage in 1949 in Azerbaijan. Further, the French took and killed hostages in Indochina.2313 Sonnenburg2314 reports that the French shot 80 prisoners of war in Fort Mont Lucon in 1944, as well as 20 hostages in Saigon in May 1951.

According to the publication Der Heimkehrer,2315 French officers and soldiers returning from Indochina stated that they could not understand what was happening at that time, 7½ years after the war, to the former members of the German occupation forces. They pointed out that incidents like Oradour take place in Indochina on a weekly basis, and must take place, in fact, for the sake of the protection of the French troops there.

As we can see, hostages were taken by all sides in World War Two, and in many cases they were also killed as reprisal.

Given that the Germans lost the war and were subsequently subjected to various "War crimes" show trials - unlike the "Allies" - attempts to investigate atrocities by the "Allies" were diminutive in comparison.

Heck, the US government even helped their "Gallant Soviet ally" by hushing up their mass murder of the Polish elite at the Katyn forest:

USA helped USSR cover up their Katyn Forest massacre
http://archive.fo/qrANs and http://archive.vn/qwWCB and http://archive.is/IfPDp
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
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Re: Roundup of Poles and Eastern Europeans during WWII (łapanka)

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 1 week ago (Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:04 pm)

Goethe wrote:Do you really think that the Allies just ignored common criminal suspects?

Did the "Allies" not execute Germans (and others) at Dachau when they "liberated" it?
The German POWs that surrendered and were lined up and shot by the American "liberators" had largely been transferred from local villages in the final days of the war. Some were just teenagers from the surrounding towns. The Americans that entered Dachau noticed the so-called "The Dachau death trains" which had bullet holes in the sides of them and dead prisoners inside. They supposedly believed that the Germans had locked the prisoners inside the trains and machine-gunned them. The American soldiers even grabbed wounded German soldiers from a local hospital and a unit of Hungarian soldiers and shot them as well, despite having nothing to do with Dachau.

A dramatized Hollywood scene of this so-called "Reprisal" can be found found in the movie "Shutter Island" starring Leonardo DiCaprio. In it, the actor says:
"It wasn't warfare, it was murder."



It was not just murder, it was a war crime: killing POWs in reprisal actions was a violation of the 1929 Geneva convention, signed both by the USA and Germany (but not the USSR). The scene in Shutter Island makes it seem like the shooting just happened at random or in the heat of the moment, but the truth is that they marched the Germans over to a specific part of the camp, taking pictures and videos of the event, went and got a heavy machine gun from a vehicle, lined these POWs up, put the machine gun into place, and then shot them all. An actual example of "Hands up don't shoot."

And there's more to it: The bullet holes I mentioned previously in the "Dachau death trains" - which killed many prisoners on board - were actually from Allied aerial strafing of the trains, not the Germans. According to a Jewish prisoner of Dachau:
"It took us almost three days to get to Dachau. What had happened, we got hit by air raid. They bombed both of the tracks, they machine-gunned our train... Both of the fellows beside me got hit by machine-gun fire... They never removed the bodies. This is how we arrived to Dachau."

You can hear his testimony here:

(start at 1:05:20 -- mirror: https://codoh.com/library/document/prob ... ocaust/en/)

To recapitulate:
- German [and even Hungarian] POWs that had nothing to do with Dachau were executed
- Executing surrendered POWs was a violation of the 1929 Geneva convention
- The alleged motive was a train full of dead Jews, blamed on the Germans but caused by the "Allies" themselves
- Nobody was ever charged or convicted of this war crime
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer

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Re: Roundup of Poles and Eastern Europeans during WWII (łapanka)

Postby Hektor » 2 months 1 week ago (Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:10 pm)

aa1874 wrote:So I heard about the Polish and Eastern European łapanka(roundup) today. Here's what (((Wikipedia))) has to say about it:

A roundup was a widespread German World War II security and economic exploitation tactic used in occupied countries, especially in German-occupied Poland in which the SS, Wehrmacht and German police took captive at random thousands of civilians on the streets of subjugated cities. The civilians were captured in groups of unsuspecting passers-by or kidnapped from selected city quarters that had been surrounded in advance by German forces.

Those caught in roundups were most often sent to slave labour in Germany, but some were also taken as hostages or executed in reprisal actions; imprisoned and sent to concentration camps or summarily executed in numerous ethnic-cleansing operations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup_(history)

I tried to search CODOH archives and IHR about this but there are no results of resources needed to refute this. This only makes German occupation of Europe something "evil", are there any resources refuting this?

Intellectual Dishonesty spotted:
were most often sent to slave labour in Germany

The term Slave got a specific meaning and using it anyhow else is a clear indication that the authors are busy with propaganda.

There were indeed recruitment drives of labourers for German Industries during WW2. And work was more or less compulsory meaning you could not simply resign and go home then. The workers were however paid and even had social insurance. Omitting that part is dishonest.
All able-bodied German were subject to compulsory labour. Omitting that context is dishonest.
It was war and given that younger German males were conscripted, there was a dire need for this labor. Omitting this is dishonest.
The Allies had vast access to colonies (with compulsory labour practices) or in case of the soviet union the compulsion was even a bit more harsh. Why would Germany / the Axis not be allowed to act in the same manner? Again, omitting those facts/arguments is dishonest.
As for omission there will be more, but this can depend on the cases in question.

There was a drive on this subject 20 years ago. And I think gov+NGO's made some payment to alleged "Slave Workers" - in fact they were a bit more honest in the matter by calling them "Zwangsarbeiter" (forced labourers), which was however only be applicable in some cases. The norm was that people from other European countries including occupied ones decided to go to work in Germany, since the employment conditions there were more lucrative than in their home countries (Who were cut off from certain trade due to war conditions).
This was also theme of contemporary German movie footage:
https://archive.org/details/FremdarbeiterImDrittenReich

What that kind of accusations boils down to is the pointing of fingers at Germany for "trying to win a war", essentially for doing things any of the Allies won't have had any qualms about doing, when having to make that decisions. And, you guessed it: Omitting this fact is intellectually dishonest.

So here you have it: Partial truth, but quite twisted misrepresentation by omitting relevant facts from the narrative. Which seems to be rather common when it is about the WW2 subject especially when dealing with Germany and its conduct of the war. You can take this even further by pointing out that the causes and prehistory of WW2 is also quite misrepresented in many ways. But that would bring us again to paradigms in academic circles, which is a subject on its own.

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Re: Roundup of Poles and Eastern Europeans during WWII (łapanka)

Postby Lamprecht » 2 months 1 week ago (Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:45 am)

Goethe posted:
Goethe wrote:Image
Soviet rapes, roundup of civilians
...
Image
Soviet treatment of civilians

Talk about an understatement.

- Around April-May 1940, at least 22 thousand Polish officers and intellectuals were rounded up by the Soviet secret police, executed, and buried in the Katyn forest

- February-March 1944, in "Operation Lentil" 1/3 to 1/4 of the Vainakh (Chechen and Ingush) populations of the region were rounded up and either executed or forcibly resettled by the Soviets

- April-August 1943 mass graves were uncovered in the region of Tatarka (near Odessa), containing the remains of those arrested by the Soviets in the Moldavian ASSR in 1938-1940 and in Bessarabia and northern Bukovina in 1940–1941

- In April 1941, thousands of civilians were executed by the Soviets near the village of Fântâna Albă

- In the Demianów Łaz gorge at the outskirts of Stanisławów, Poland, hundreds of men women and children were tortured, executed and dumped into mass graves by the Soviets

The list goes on, surely it will never be complete
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


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