Himmler: Treatment of Alien Races in the East (1940)

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zapper
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Himmler: Treatment of Alien Races in the East (1940)

Postby zapper » 1 month 3 weeks ago (Sun May 02, 2021 6:49 pm)

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=63400

An interesting document, with further correspondence supposedly indicating Hitler read and approved of it. Here is a key section:

Within a very few years--I should think about 4 to 5 years the name of the Cashubes, for instance, must be unknown, because at that time there won't be a Cashubian people any more (this also goes especially for the West Prussians). I hope that the concepts of Jews will be completely extinguished through the possibility of a large emigration of all Jews to Africa or some other colony. Within a somewhat longer period, it should also be possible to make the ethnic concepts of Ukrainians, Gorals and Lemcos disappear in our area. What has been said for those fragments of peoples is also meant on a correspondingly larger scale for the Poles.

A basic issue in the solution of all these problems is the question of schooling and thus the question of sifting and selecting the young. For the non-German population of the East there must be no higher school than the four-grade elementary school. The sole goal of this school is to be--

Simply arithmetic up to 500 at the most; writing of one's name; the doctrine that it is a divine law to obey the Germans and to be honest, industrious, and good. I don't think that reading is necessary.


What do you guys think of this? #1 there is the notion that larger nationalities will be "extinguished" (this was standard Bolshevik practice). But more than this "alien races" would on the whole be not given the opportunity to receive public education beyond the most rudimentary level. This seems like an extreme practice. Even subjugated Colonial people were allowed schooling beyond this level.

Further comments that these "alien races" were untermensch (translated as subhuman) supports the idea of General Plan Ost - ie widespread subjugation and takeover of vast areas in the east - which is not at all supported by the historical record.

I believe General Plan Ost to be an accusation designed to prop up the Holocaust myth. If the Germans were treating the Slavs this bad, what about the Jews, a race they had much more animosity towards? For these reasons this document is very suspicious to me.

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Re: Himmler: Treatment of Alien Races in the East (1940)

Postby Breker » 1 month 3 weeks ago (Sun May 02, 2021 9:22 pm)

First, where is the actual, original document to look over, not an alleged Nuremberg "translation"?
General Plan Ost / East has been exposed as a fraud, plenty here on it.

We suggest:
Citing Nuremberg as 'proof'? But why?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6653

Did Hitler consider Slavs / Eastern Europeans to be "Subhuman" or racially inferior?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12690

search.php?keywords=generalplan+ost&fid%5B0%5D=2
search.php?keywords=general+plan+ost&fid%5B0%5D=2
B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: Himmler: Treatment of Alien Races in the East (1940)

Postby zapper » 1 month 3 weeks ago (Mon May 03, 2021 2:03 am)

Breker wrote:First, where is the actual, original document to look over, not an alleged Nuremberg "translation"?


"Original" German text here: https://www.ifz-muenchen.de/heftarchiv/ ... usnick.pdf (page 196) The translation checks out.

I wasn't able to find a scan of the document (this is perhaps understandable given it's not considered very important)

But I found a reference

"Einige Gedanken über die Behandlung der Fremdvölkischen im Osten , “ 20 May 1940 , NARA / T175 / 119 / 2645113ff

It would seem the original (or a transcription) is in NARA in Washington DC

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Re: Himmler: Treatment of Alien Races in the East (1940)

Postby Breker » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Mon May 03, 2021 12:53 pm)

zapper wrote:
Breker wrote:First, where is the actual, original document to look over, not an alleged Nuremberg "translation"?


"Original" German text here: https://www.ifz-muenchen.de/heftarchiv/ ... usnick.pdf (page 196) The translation checks out.

I wasn't able to find a scan of the document (this is perhaps understandable given it's not considered very important)

But I found a reference

"Einige Gedanken über die Behandlung der Fremdvölkischen im Osten , “ 20 May 1940 , NARA / T175 / 119 / 2645113ff

It would seem the original (or a transcription) is in NARA in Washington DC

IOW, there is no such document. It would, after all, be in the interests of those making the assertions about the alleged "translation" to show the original.
Also, your saying that it is referenced elsewhere means nothing since it would be 'referencing' the same "translation'" or bogus German text while not showing the original which obviously does not exist.
Appears to be just more of the 'One can say anything negative they want about Hitler and get away with not proving it'.
B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: Himmler: Treatment of Alien Races in the East (1940)

Postby Archie » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Mon May 03, 2021 8:55 pm)

I hope that the concepts of Jews will be completely extinguished through the possibility of a large emigration of all Jews to Africa or some other colony. Within a somewhat longer period, it should also be possible to make the ethnic concepts of Ukrainians, Gorals and Lemcos disappear in our area.


Whatever idea Himmler has here, it clearly does not refer to mass murder.

And then to make it even more clear, we have this sentence:

Cruel and tragic as every individual case may be, this method is still the mildest and best one if, out of inner conviction, one rejects as un-German and impossible the Bolshevist method of physical extermination of a people.

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Re: Himmler: Treatment of Alien Races in the East (1940)

Postby zapper » 1 month 2 weeks ago (Mon May 03, 2021 9:53 pm)

Archie wrote:
I hope that the concepts of Jews will be completely extinguished through the possibility of a large emigration of all Jews to Africa or some other colony. Within a somewhat longer period, it should also be possible to make the ethnic concepts of Ukrainians, Gorals and Lemcos disappear in our area.


Whatever idea Himmler has here, it clearly does not refer to mass murder.

And then to make it even more clear, we have this sentence:

Cruel and tragic as every individual case may be, this method is still the mildest and best one if, out of inner conviction, one rejects as un-German and impossible the Bolshevist method of physical extermination of a people.


Yes this document features elements that seemingly contradict the holocaust myth. Some propagandists might argue that "physical extermination" was not decided on until over a year later.

My question is mostly about the sections which talk about treatment of non-Jewish populations, which suggest widespread domination, even opression, of occupied territories and labeling of non-Jews as untermenschen. This seems very uncharacteristic of actual NS policy, which was to liberate these people from corrupt bolshevik and Judeo-plutocrat governments. For this reason the document seems suspect.

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Re: Himmler: Treatment of Alien Races in the East (1940)

Postby Lamprecht » 1 month 1 week ago (Tue May 11, 2021 5:21 pm)

zapper wrote:Yes this document features elements that seemingly contradict the holocaust myth.

It doesn't support it at all.

Some propagandists might argue that "physical extermination" was not decided on until over a year later.

Yes, many have made this argument but the problem is that the conspiracy theory they are peddling does not make any sense. I suggest:

Challenge to Believer NFrNJ : When did "Final Solution" become extermination?
viewtopic.php?t=13087

My question is mostly about the sections which talk about treatment of non-Jewish populations, which suggest widespread domination, even opression, of occupied territories and labeling of non-Jews as untermenschen.

These E.Europeans were also oppressed under Soviet rule, both before and after NS rule in Germany. And was this supposed to last for 1,000 years or something? It doesn't seem like a very sustainable policy proposal. Maybe for a generation or two but not indefinitely.

This seems very uncharacteristic of actual NS policy, which was to liberate these people from corrupt bolshevik and Judeo-plutocrat governments. For this reason the document seems suspect.

This was never an actual policy though. Was it enacted? Also, it was during war. Even in the USA, where specific civil liberties are acknowledged as inalienable by the constitution, there are cases during war-time where people were imprisoned for simply exercising these basic rights.

So it's important to make a distinction between "NS policy" and "[allegedly proposed] NS policy during an active war." The British put Jews in concentration camps during WWII and many died in them, is that just typical of them even during peacetime? The US government did the same to citizens of Japanese descent during WWII, do you think the war had anything to do with that?

As for:
I wasn't able to find a scan of the document (this is perhaps understandable given it's not considered very important)

But I found a reference

"Einige Gedanken über die Behandlung der Fremdvölkischen im Osten , “ 20 May 1940 , NARA / T175 / 119 / 2645113ff

It would seem the original (or a transcription) is in NARA in Washington DC

Ok, keep us updated on when you have located the original document and can post it.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


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