British War-Initiation: Irving's View

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British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby astro3 » 4 years 11 months ago (Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:56 am)

My CODOH essay 'How Britain pioneered City Bombing' described how Britain began bombing German cities on 11 May 1940 the day after Churchill became Prime minister: starting with Freiburg. How long was it before Germany retaliated? I remember Fritz Berg telling me it was 4 months later but I did not believe this, I could not believe that Britain would go on bombing German cities for FOUR WHOLE MONTHS before Germany retaliated in kind.

Here is David Irving's view which he published twice: once in a Revisionist journal (1) and again as the first chapter of his book on Dresden (2007). Warning: if you believe this, it might force you to conclude that the Nuremberg accusation of 'Planning, preparing, initiation and waging of a war of aggression' - supposedly the supreme war crime - applies more to Britain than it did to Germany.
He [Churchill] knew from code-breaking, he knew from reading the German air force signals, which were broken on May 26, 1940, that Hitler had given orders that no British town was to be bombed. London was completely embargoed. The German air force was allowed to bomb ports and harbors and dockyards, but not towns as such. Churchill was greatly aggrieved by this. He wondered how much longer Hitler could afford carrying on war like this. Hitler, as we know, carried on until September 1940 without bombing any English towns. The embargo stayed in force, we can see it in the German archives now, and we know from the code-breaking of the German signals, that Churchill was reading Hitler's orders to the German air force: not on any account to bomb these towns. So there was no way that we could drag in the Americans that way unless we could provoke Hitler to do it. Which was why, on August 25, 1940, Churchill gave the order to the British air force to go and bomb Berlin. Although the chief of the bomber command and the chief of staff of the British air force warned him that if we bombed Hitler, he may very well lift the embargo on British towns. And Churchill just twinkled. Because that was what he wanted -- of course.

"At 9:15 that morning he telephoned personally the bomber commander, himself, to order the bombing of Berlin -- one hundred bombers to go and bomb Berlin. They went out and bombed Berlin that night, and Hitler still didn't move. Then Churchill ordered another raid on Berlin, and so it went on for the next seven or ten days until finally, on September 4th, Hitler lost his patience and made that famous speech in the Sport Palace in Berlin in which he said: "This madman has bombed Berlin now seven times. If he bombs Berlin now once more, then I shall not only just attack their towns, I shall wipe them out!" ("Ich werde ihre Städte ausradieren! " ) A very famous speech. Of course German schoolchildren are told about the Hitler speech, but not told about what went first. They're not told how Churchill set out deliberately to provoke the bombing of his own capital. And on the following day Churchill ordered Berlin bombed again. And now of course the Germans started bombing the docks in London, the East End of London, finally the city of London and the West End on November 6 and 7, 1940. In September 1940, 7,000 Londoners were killed in the bombing as the result of Churchill's deliberate provocation.


the Luftwaffe began attacking British fighter airfields in August - an activity that was legitimate in terms of the conventions and agreements of warfare: whereas British city bombing was a complete negation of all these principles and conventions.

Here is a comment from the book, by Benjamin Colby, 'Twas a famous Victory' which may be helpful:
With British fighter airfields suffering acutely from Luftwaffe assaults, Churchill ordered a series of night raids on Berlin for the specific purpose of diverting German attacks from the airfields to London. After Berlin was attacked six times, the German air force was ordered to attack London, and, as Churchill anticipated, the pressure on the airfields was relieved. Thus began the blitz ...
In 1935 and again in 1936, Hitler had made proposals for the prohibition of bombing outside battle zones but met no response in Britain, where longrange bombers were being designed and plans being drawn up to make the bombing of Germany the nation's chief weapon in the event of war. The "whole raison d'etre" of the Bomber Command, organized in 1936, "was to bomb Germany should she be our enemy." The German Air Force, on the other hand, was designed primarily for close support of the army. Sir Arthur Harris, chief marshal of the British Bomber Command, states that the Germans had no strategic bombers at all, and even in daytime the Luftwaffe "was fitted only to carry out the work of a tactical air force, not strategic attack."
After the British army was evacuated from Dunkirk in late May, Hitler, mistaking the temper of the British people, made peace overtures and expected Britain to abandon the war. Leave was granted to many in the German army, and part of the Luftwaffe was shifted elsewhere. But Britain would not quit. The night bombing of Germany continued....
In the air battles that followed, the Luftwaffe aimed at military objectives, and the RAF official historians write that, as late as the latter part of August, "the governing object of the enemy was still the destruction of the RAF and especially of Fighter Command."
So effective were the German attacks on airfields that toward the last of the month it appeared that British reserves of fighter aircraft would be exhausted within three weeks. In this situation (after bombs had been falling on German cities for months), the German bombers seeking to attack air installations near London lost their way and dropped their bombs on London. That these bombs were dropped by error, and that the Luftwaffe was still operating "under orders to conform to the old and longstanding rules of bombardment," is attested by Liddell Hart.
On August 25, 81 bombers were dispatched in the first of a series of night raids on the German capital. Not until September 7, after the sixth bombing attack on Berlin, did the Luftwaffe begin the blitz in retaliation... Liddell Hart wrote that the Germans were justified in describing the attack on London as a reprisal, following six successive RAF attacks on Berlin. "Moreover, they took the initiative a few weeks later in proposing a mutual agreement to restrict such city bombing - although they still had the immense advantage in bombing strength."

My general comment: this looks like a story of how Churchill got his war going which the people of England didn’t want, and Germany certainly didn’t, by keeping on bombing German cities, even going so far as to start bombing the capital city, Berlin, before it responded. Even today the British people do not believe this, they think the ‘Battle of Britain’ starting in August 1940 was aggression, was aggressive war – and they have branded Irving a ‘falsifier of history’ (High Court, 12 April 2000) for telling it like it happened.

1. Institute for Historical Review: Churchill and U.S. Entry Into World War II Autumn 1989, Vol. 9, pp. 261-286):



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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby Balsamo » 4 years 11 months ago (Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:54 pm)

While i agree with Irving on this aspect of war...No Churchill was not the Hero of the Good...And yes he initiated illegal bombing, in part to divert the Luftfaffe from bombing his airfields, playing on Hitler's emotion who will order the Blitz...
One should be carefull not to conclude that the way the Germans conducted the war was all white.
It is now well known that Hitler's plan was not in the west and that those wars (against France and Britain) were at first a political one.
Yes The Werhmacht did respect all its international obligations during those operations, but it did not during the compaign against Poland (not because of the Werhmachtm but because of Fürher's befehl).

There is a lot to say about this subject, but my conclusion is that in this respect, one black does not make the other white.
Though it is true that Germany did its best to conduct a "legal war" with its western enemies, at least for a while, It never did on the eastern front...and that from the start.

As soon as we enter the field of International Relation, it is like the movie "the good, the bad and the ugly" except that there are no Good.

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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby Hannover » 4 years 11 months ago (Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:58 pm)

Balsamo, you said:
Yes The Werhmacht did respect all its international obligations during those operations, but it did not during the compaign against Poland (not because of the Werhmachtm but because of Fürher's befehl).

There is a lot to say about this subject, but my conclusion is that in this respect, one black does not make the other white.
Though it is true that Germany did its best to conduct a "legal war" with its western enemies, at least for a while, It never did on the eastern front...and that from the start.

Nonsense again. Please start a thread on your beliefs and present proof ... if you can. This is going to be good.

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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby Balsamo » 4 years 11 months ago (Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:56 pm)

Would the memorandums of General Johannes Blaskowitz be enough to point out that something went wrong in this compaign ?

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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby Hannover » 4 years 11 months ago (Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:21 pm)

Balsamo wrote:Would the memorandums of General Johannes Blaskowitz be enough to point out that something went wrong in this compaign ?

I know what is claimed about them, so let's see them. Start a thread on his "memorandums". And oh yes, the German original memorandums, not someone's alleged "translations". Hmm.

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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby Hannover » 4 years 11 months ago (Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:47 pm)

More on the British initiation of terror bombings of civilians here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1786&p=11006
With a list of German towns, cities where the civilian population was illegally terror bombed long before German retaliation.

- Hannover

excerpts:
Hannover wrote:http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/Churchill/ ... plies.html

..........the British, by their own admission, initiated unrestricted bombing of civilian areas ought to merit for them membership in the select society of "war criminals." The unbelieving reader need only consult the testimony of the British officials J. M. Spaight and Sir Arthur Harris, for incontrovertible proof of this charge.99 A decision of the British Air Ministry made on May 11, 1940, to attack targets in Western Germany instituted the practice of bombing purely civilian objectives. This "epoch-making event," as F. J. P. Veale correctly describes it, marked an ominous departure from the rule that hostilities are to be limited to operations against enemy military forces alone.100 Spaight, former Principal Secretary of the Air Ministry, makes the following amazing comment on the decision of May 11, 1940:
Because we were doubtful about the psychological effect of propagandist distortion of the truth that it was we who started the strategic bombing offensive, we have shrunk from giving our great decision of May 11, 1940, the publicity it deserves. That surely was a mistake. It was a splendid decision.101
But the "great decision," the "splendid decision" of May 11, 1940, which was ultimately to cost the lives of millions, including thousands of Mr. Spaight's own countrymen, was to have an even more grisly sequel, for, according to Sir Charles Snow who had charge of selecting scientific personnel for war research in Great Britain in World War II, F. A. Lindemann, a Cabinet member and confidant of Churchill, produced in early 1942 a remarkable Cabinet paper on the subject of the strategic bombing of Germany:
It described, in quantitative terms, the effect on Germany of a British bombing offensive in the next eighteen months (approximately March 1942-September 1943). The paper laid down a strategic policy. The bombing must be directed essentially against German working-class houses. Middle-class houses have too much space round them, and so are bound to waste bombs ...102
One wonders if it was the cultivated humanitarianism inherent in this decision to assure the death of more working class Germans per bomb which entitled the Allies, and in particular the British, to sit in moral judgment on German leaders at Nuremberg in 1946!
99. J. M. Spaight, Bombing Vindicated (London: Geoffrey Bles, Ltd., 1944) and Sir Arthur Harris, bomber Offensive (London: Collins, 1947).
100. F. J. P. Veale, Advance to Barbarism (Apppleton: C. C. Nelson Publishing Company, 1953), p. 122.
101. Spaight, op. cit., p. 7.
102. C. P. Snow, Science and Government (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1961), p. 48.

Letter to PBS on fraudulent 'documentary' about the 'Blitz'

Dr. A.R. WESSERLE
16 March 1981
PBS Television "The Blitz"

Sirs:

Rarely have I come across a television broadcast more vicious in intent and more warped in execution than your recent "Blitz on Britain." As a survivor of the mass air raid executed against my native city of Prague, Bohemia, on the Christian Holy Day of Palm Sunday, 1945, by the Anglo-American strategic bomber force - a raid that maimed or murdered thousands a few seconds before the conclusion of the Second World War - I say this:

1. There can be no comparison between the brutality of the Anglo-American bomber offensive, on one hand, and the minimality of the German-Italian efforts, on the other. As the commander of the British strategic air offensive, Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris shows in his Bomber Offensive (Macmillan, New York, 1947) 23 German cities had more than 60 percent of their built-up area destroyed; 46 had half of it destroyed. 31 communities had more than 500 acres obliterated: Berlin, 6427 acres: Hamburg, 6200 acres; Duesseldorf, 2003; Cologne (through air attack), 1994. By contrast, the three favorite targets of the Luftwaffe: London, Plymouth and Coventry, had 600 acres, 400, and just over 100 acres destroyed.

2. Anglo-American strategic bombers, according to official sources of the West German government in 1962, dropped 2,690,000 metric tons of bombs on Continental Europe; 1,350,000 tons were dropped on Germany within its 1937 boundaries; 180,000 tons on Austria and the Balkans; 590,000 tons on France; 370,000 tons on Italy; and 200,000 tons on miscellaneous targets such as Bohemia, Slovakia and Poland. By contrast, Germany dropped a total of 74,172 tons of bombs as well as V-1 and V-2 rockets and "buzz bombs" on Britain - five percent of what the Anglo-Saxons rained down on Germany. The Federal German Government has established the minimum count - not an estimate - of 635,000 German civilians were killed in France, Italy, Rumania, Hungary, Czecheslovakia, and elsewhere.

3. Both Germany and Britain initiated air raids on naval and military targets as of 3 September 1939. However, when the British attacks on port installations in Northern Germany ended in disaster, with a devastating majority of bombers downed - the Battle of the German Bight - Britain switched over to less costly night air raids on civilian targets such as Berlin and the Ruhr industrial region. By contrast, Germany replied in kind only in the winter months of 1940/41, a year later. Observers indubitably British, such as the late Labour Minister Crossman, the scientist and writer C.P. Snow, and the Earl of Birkenhead, have demonstrated that it was not Germany but Britain that, after May, 1940, unleashed an official policy of unrestricted and unlimited raids on civilian populations under its new Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, and his science advisor, Dr. Lindemann. Professor Lindemann, the later Viscount Cherwell, coolly calculated that, by using a force of 10,000 heavy bombers to attack and destroy the 58 largest German cities, one-third of the population of Germany would be "de-housed." The assumption, of course, also was that out of those 25-27 million homeless at least ten percent - 2.5 to 3 million people - would be killed. On this score alone, Winston Churchill and his advisors deserve to rank among the maddest mass murderers in history. In fact, as West German records show, 131 German towns were hit by heavy strategic raids. Only the courage of the Luftwaffe pilots, the effectiveness of the air defense network and the strength of the fire fighting organization worked together to prevent a bloodbath to the extent envisioned by the Prime Minister.

4. Blood baths did occur when conditions were right. When the Anglo-American bombing policy reached its first grand climax in a raid on Hamburg that stretched over several days and nights in July, 1943, a minimum of 40,000 to 50,000 civilians burned to death. With the defensive power of the Reich worn down in the second half of 1944 and in 1945, the Anglo-Saxons indulged in ever more massive extermination raids against Europe. Communities of little or no military value, even if attacked previously, were now pulverized, preferably under conditions of the utmost horror. Christian holy days, and dates and sites of famous art festivals were select occasions for raids. Many of the most beautiful cities of Europe and the world were systematically pounded into nothingness, often during the last weeks of the war, among them: Wuerzburg, Hildesheim, Darmstadt, Kassel, Nürnberg, Braunschweig. Little Pforzheim in south-west Germany had 17,000 people killed. Dresden, one of the great art centers and in 1945 a refuge for perhaps a million civilians, was decimated with the loss of at least 100,000 souls. Europe from Monte Cassino to Luebeck and Rostock on the Baltic, from Caen and Lisieux in France to Pilsen, Prague, Bruenn, Budapest and Bucharest reeled under the barbaric blows of the bombers.

5. Nor did the extermination raids stop with Europe. Cigar-chomping General Curtis LeMay demonstrated in. the Far East that record kills could be achieved without resort to atomic weapons. By applying the lessons learned in Europe to the wooden architecture of the Asian mainland and Japan he raised "fire storms" which surpassed even those of Hamburg, n Japanese civilians were killed through bombing. Millions of others fell victim to it, from Mukden, Manchuria, to Rangoon, Burma. It goes without saying that LeMay and his colleagues could not have carried out their campaigns of mass annihilation without the backing of the highest political leaders in the land. In fact, the United States Government had placed orders for the immediate development of four-engined, superheavy, very-long-range bombers (the XB 15, the B-17, the XB 19, the B-24 and the B-29) starting in 1934. Thus, the Roosevelt Administration had begun to lay plans for offensive, strategic, global war back in 1933, the year of its inception. With the later exception of Britain, none of the other "large" powers followed suit: neither France, Italy and Germany, nor Soviet Russia and Japan the latter with extensive holdings in the Pacific. These are sobering facts. PBS, with its record of fine programming, has much to lose if it insists on presenting biassed reports such as "Blitz on Britain" or "UXB." If you care to tap the unplumbed depths of sentimentality, envy and hatred, start a comic strip. In the meantime, we'll change channels.
Give poor Alistair Cooke, who has been mightily discomfited of late, a much-needed respite.

Sincerely, Dr. A.R. Wesserle

Source: Reprinted from The Journal of Historical Review, vol. 2, no. 4, pp. 381-384.

In addition:
“As early as 1953 H.M. Stationary Office published the first volume of a work ‘The Royal Air Force’, 1939-1945 entitled ‘The Fight at Odds’, a book described as “officially commissioned and based throughout on official documents which had been read and approved by the Air Ministry Historical Branch.” The author , Mr. Dennis Richards, states plainly the destruction of oil plants and factories was only a secondary purpose of the British air attacks on Germany which began in May 1940. The primary purpose of these raids was to goad the Germans into undertaking reprisal raids of a similar character on Britain. Such raids would arouse intense indignation in Britain against Germany and so create a war psychosis without which it is impossible to carry on a modern war. Mr Dennis Richards writes: “If the Royal Air Force raided the Ruhr, destroying oil plants with it’s most accurately placed bombs and urban property with those that went astray, the outcry for retalliation against Britain might prove too strong for the German generals to resist. The attack on the Ruhr, in other words, was an informal invitation to the Luftwaffe to bomb London “. p. 122

This passage merely confirmed what Mr. Spaight had so incautiously disclosed in 1944 in his by then forgotten book ‘Bombing Vindicated’. The popular belief that Hitler started unrestricted bombing still persisted and is, in fact, widely held at present day.

The third and last phase of the British air offensive against Germany began in March 1942 with the adoption of the Lindemann Plan by the British War Cabinet, and continued until the end of the war in May, 1945. The bombing during this period was not, as the Germans complained, indiscriminate. On the contrary, it was concentrated on working-class houses because, as professor Lindemann maintained, a higher percentage of bloodshed per ton of explosives dropped could be expected from bombing houses built close together, rather than by bombing higher class houses surrounded by gardens.”

source: ‘Advance to Barbarism - the Development of Total Warfare’, by F.J.P. Veale, p.184-185
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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby Heimwehr » 4 years 11 months ago (Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:45 pm)

Balsamo wrote:Would the memorandums of General Johannes Blaskowitz be enough to point out that something went wrong in this compaign ?


Please refer to Hitlers Danzig speech, September 19th, 1939: "I ordered the German Air Force to conduct humanitarian warfare - that is, to attack only fighting troops. The Polish Government and army leadership ordered the civilian population to carry on the war as francs-tireurs from ambush. It is very difficult under these circumstances to hold one's self back. I want to stress that the democratic States should not imagine it must be that way. If they want it otherwise, they can have it otherwise. My patience can have limits here also. . . . "

Hitler fired his personal assistant Karl Wilhelm Krause on September 10th, 1939 allegedly due to a missing bottle of water. In fact, I have heard this from Rochus Misch, Hitler was on the edge that day, because he received reports that the Poles did overrun German field hospitals at some places and brutally massacred all wounded soldiers. This went so far that the Poles cut of the genitals of the German solders and stuffed them into the mouths of the dying before they were killed with bayonets. Hitler was informed about this, but nevertheless did hold back, see the speech mentioned above.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby astro3 » 4 years 10 months ago (Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:38 am)

After the first Nazi air raid of London, September 7 1940 which killed 306 people,:
After touring the ruins, Winston Churchill remarked, "They cheered me as if I'd given them victory, instead of getting their houses bombed to bits."

- this quote is all over the web but with no source. Its source is: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IAof ... &q&f=false 'Nineteen Weeks: America, Britain and the Fateful Summer of 1940' by Norman Moss 2003 p. 310.

There is no indication in this account, that Londoners knew that Britain had been bombing German cities for four months before this happened. Indeed readers are not told this: but only that there is a struggle going on in the air.
'It is one of the greatest triumphs of modern emotional engineering that, in spite of the plain facts of the case which could never be disguised or even materially distorted, the British public, throughout the Blitz Period (1940-1941), remained convinced that the entire responsibility for their sufferings rested on the German leaders.
'Advance to Barbarism, F.J.P. Veale.
Adolf Hitler only undertook the bombing of British civilian targets reluctantly after the RAF had commenced bombing German civilian targets...Hitler would have been willing at my time to stop the dissolution. Hitler was genuinely anxious to reach with Britain an agreement confining the action of aircraft to battle zones.
Mr. J. M. Speight, CBE, Principal Secretary to the Air Ministry, in his book The Splendid Decision.

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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby Hektor » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:57 am)

astro3 wrote:...
Adolf Hitler only undertook the bombing of British civilian targets reluctantly after the RAF had commenced bombing German civilian targets...Hitler would have been willing at my time to stop the dissolution. Hitler was genuinely anxious to reach with Britain an agreement confining the action of aircraft to battle zones.
Mr. J. M. Speight, CBE, Principal Secretary to the Air Ministry, in his book The Splendid Decision.

Do you have a link to that book?

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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby Heimwehr » 4 years 10 months ago (Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:00 pm)

Do you have a link to that book?


This publication from the Auswärtiges Amt about the exclusive responsibility of the British regarding the bombardment of civilians is very helpful as well. I guess for a reason there is no English translation existing for this one:

http://nsl-archiv.com/Buecher/Bis-1945/Auswaertiges%20Amt%20-%20Weissbuch%20Nr.%208%20-%20Dokumente%20ueber%20die%20Alleinschuld%20Englands%20am%20Bombenkrieg%20gegen%20die%20Zivilbevoelkerung%20(1943-1995,%2094%20S.,%20Scan).pdf
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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby Hektor » 4 years 10 months ago (Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:09 pm)

There is also some of the Weissbuchs here:
http://archive.org/search.php?query=Weissbuch

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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby Turpitz » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:32 am)

Good video of Irving from a time when he had the bit between his teeth and before Jewry had crushed him and turned him into a conformist. He doesn't mention that Churchill had been bought off financially by Jewry in this video, although, he does explain how the repellent, alcoholic earned his keep and gave good interest for having his debts payed off. Well worth a listen to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHX6pY5pSu8

Ditchley is of course still there, in Oxfordshire (OX7 4ER) and can be seen on Google Maps as a huge, sprawling estate belonging to hereditary, Landed Gentry.

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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 8 months ago (Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:26 pm)

Turpitz wrote:Good video of Irving from a time when he had the bit between his teeth and before Jewry had crushed him and turned him into a conformist. He doesn't mention that Churchill had been bought off financially by Jewry in this video, although, he does explain how the repellent, alcoholic earned his keep and gave good interest for having his debts payed off. Well worth a listen to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHX6pY5pSu8

Ditchley is of course still there, in Oxfordshire (OX7 4ER) and can be seen on Google Maps as a huge, sprawling estate belonging to hereditary, Landed Gentry.


One of Irving's best talks. He does briefly mention the Focus in that extract and I'm pretty sure he goes into it all in detail in an earlier episode, though I couldn't say now which one.

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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby Hektor » 1 year 1 week ago (Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:09 pm)

astro3 wrote:My CODOH essay 'How Britain pioneered City Bombing' described how Britain began bombing German cities on 11 May 1940 the day after Churchill became Prime minister: starting with Freiburg. How long was it before Germany retaliated? I remember Fritz Berg telling me it was 4 months later but I did not believe this, I could not believe that Britain would go on bombing German cities for FOUR WHOLE MONTHS before Germany retaliated in kind.
...

Wikipedia alleges something differently:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_o ... 0_May_1940

The three aircraft involved of the chain of Lieutenant Paul Seidel from the 8th Season of Fighter Squadron 51, type He 111 had started with their squadron at 14:27 on Landsberg-Lech Air Base so as to bomb the French city of Dijon, or the alternative target Dole–Jura Airport, as part of the Battle of France. However, due to navigation errors they lost orientation and never arrived there. Although they were not able to determine their exact position, they were convinced to be on the other side of the Rhine and, in spite of the landmarks they saw, the town beneath them could perhaps be Colmar, which is at a distance of only 22 miles. Since, on the other hand, the Freiburg Air Guard in Hilda Tower on the Loretto mountain identified the aircraft as German, it was only after the attack was already over that air raid warning was given. Starting from 15:59 the planes dropped a total of 69 bombs on the city

But it gets quite funny:
Colonel Josef Kammhuber, at that time commander of Fighter Squadron 51 "Edelweiss", alleged for a long time that it would never be possible to clarify who was responsible for the bombing of Freiburg on this day. In August 1980, however, he presented his knowledge regarding the bombing of Freiburg on 10 May 1940 to two military historians: "The fact that the attack on Freiburg was conducted mistakenly by a chain of III/KG51 is evident".[7] The German historians Anton Hoch, Wolfram Wette and Gerd R. Ueberschär contributed significantly to the clarification of the events on 10 May 1940. In consequence of their work the responsible persons could be identified in 1956. On 5 April 1956 New York Times reported that the puzzle who bombed Freiburg on 10 May 1940 had been solved.[8] On the Hilda playground in Freiburg's suburb Stühlinger next to which[9] 20 children were killed,[10] a memorial stone refers to the incident. The construction of the memorial stone was initiated by the Union of Persecutees of the Nazi Regime. On the 40th anniversary a preliminary plaque existing only for a short time was installed. It followed up the assumption that Freiburg was intentionally bombed by the German Air Force which was later disproved.[11] The present monument was dedicated on the 45th anniversary. The present inscription on the plaque is based on the findings of historical research about the event.[12] At the dedication of the memorial stone next to the spoke mayor Rolf Böhme as well as the chairman of the VVN and the chairman of the SPD local association of the suburb Stühlinger.[13]


Some may recall Wolfram Wette as a court historian. It's also interesting that the VVN, a communist front organisation that was financed by the Eastern Block, chipped in their and tried to make a deliberate Nazi attack of it. Which was later retracted.

Now we no that the self-acclaimed defenders of democracy and guardians of official truth, do mix fact or fiction. So their version might still be possible. But on the other hand, they just may use confusion to twist something their way.

I notice there are divergent dates 10th of May and 11th of May. Does that perhaps refer to two different events.

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Re: British War-Initiation: Irving's View

Postby Mortimer » 1 year 1 week ago (Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:22 am)

Hektor wrote:
astro3 wrote:...
Adolf Hitler only undertook the bombing of British civilian targets reluctantly after the RAF had commenced bombing German civilian targets...Hitler would have been willing at my time to stop the dissolution. Hitler was genuinely anxious to reach with Britain an agreement confining the action of aircraft to battle zones.
Mr. J. M. Speight, CBE, Principal Secretary to the Air Ministry, in his book The Splendid Decision.

Do you have a link to that book?

Is there really a book called The Splendid Decision ? I just did an online search and couldn't find that title. It came up with Bombing Vindicated by J M Spaight. He calls the decision to target civilians as a "splendid decision".
There is a review of Bombing Vindicated here - http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/arch ... icated.php
The whole book is online here - http://www.jrbooksonline.com/spaight.htm


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