Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

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Hannover
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Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Hannover » 6 years 9 months ago (Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:49 pm)

The standard narrative is that Hitler shot himself in his Berlin bunker, his remains were partially cremated by his SS aid. Correct me if I'm wrong on this assumption.

However, I have seen information which indicates that modern scientific testing of the alleged Hitler skull (held by the Russians, permission was granted for testing) turned out to be from a female. This may be complicated by the thought that the skull was of Eva Braun, though I'm not sure if Eva Braun's corpse (supposedly as a result of a cyanide capsule and possibly an additional gun shot) is claimed to have been partially burned with Hitler.

Also, a German engineer / architect who created a virtual recreation of the bunker indicated that the SS aid, who claimed to have heard the shot, could not have heard gunfire from the location that the SS aid claimed to be in at the time. It's said the robust structure of the bunker would not have permitted sound to carry in accordance with the claimed location of the SS aid.

I would also like discuss the ramifications of this question. Comments wanted.

Thanks, H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Renewal » 6 years 9 months ago (Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:35 pm)

There are so many things wrong with the official story. The most wanted man of the 20th Century commits suicide, and Communists burn the body on the spot, just to be done with it.
While Americans took a pile of photos of every important Nazi while they were alive and when dead for propaganda purposes, Soviets would have given their nuts to take a snap with a trophy like this. They even went as far as to try and fake the photo.

An interesting theory:

http://hitlersescape.com/

And another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxBdwMweM-E

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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Hannover » 6 years 9 months ago (Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:50 pm)

I thought the main narrative states that Hitler's aid burned, at least partially, Hitler's body, not the Soviets.
And I know that Stalin firmly believed that Hitler escaped, and yes, the lack of Eva Braun's remains is curious.

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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Renewal » 6 years 9 months ago (Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:13 pm)

There are too many official stories already.

Here's one:
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/12/11/russia.hitler.remains/index.html

Not sure if this is the latest one, though.

During the Soviet era, everyone was talking about Soviet soldiers doing it. Last time I was reading Soviet history books I was 11 years old, so I'm not sure if I still have those, but I'll dig around a bit.

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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Hannover » 6 years 9 months ago (Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:27 pm)

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europ ... index.html
Hitler's jaw is kept at the FSB archives, and the fragments of Hitler's skull are at the State Archive. There are no other parts of Hitler's body apart from these samples seized on May 5, 1945.

It is this skull fragment which has been determined to be from a female.

Also, I believe there are blood samples from the alleged bed in which Hitler supposedly shot himself. Hitler's relatives have reportedly refused to give blood samples for a DNA comparison.

- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Renewal » 6 years 9 months ago (Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:40 pm)

Hannover wrote:Hitler's relatives have reportedly refused to give blood samples for a DNA comparison.


Sure. Like they had a choice, if KGB (or now FSB) wanted one. They have ways to get things done. It would have been taken from their corpses, if not voluntarily. Most likely they have no use for it, or already did a comparison and it does not match.

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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Haldan » 6 years 9 months ago (Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:46 pm)

Who knows what the real truth is, the men who have talked about it and the only ones who actually knew something useful were SS men. Perhaps they buried the bodies of Adolf and Eva at a secret location someplace, on holy ground? This is only a curious speculation on my part. Remember, the SS swore an oath of loyalty and obedience to the death, these men would have always been loyal to Mr. Hitler. The speculation about giving them a place of dignified final rest isn't so crazy: but I cannot offer any evidence for it, unfortunately.

It's an interesting topic nonetheless. I doubt we will ever really know the real truth, unless there exists some very,very secret document in the former Soviet archives (IF the Soviets actually knew something we don't).

-haldan
Last edited by Haldan on Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Renewal » 6 years 9 months ago (Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:38 am)

Exactly. His men would have never torched him in some ditch, no matter what. Soviet High Command was one backstabbing bunch of fellows, but they would not have kept it from Stalin, if they had any information. No photos, no Hitler's body = nothing. It is also highly likely, that some Soviets lost their lives because of that shortcoming.
So, if his own men did not burn his body, and Soviets did not do it, then no one has actually seen him dead, and the suicide story is pulled out of you know where, like the rest of the official WWII "history".

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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Mkk » 6 years 9 months ago (Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:01 am)

Supposedly the female skull is not of the right age group to be that of Eva.
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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Goethe » 6 years 9 months ago (Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:47 pm)

Interesting thread.
Assuming that Hitler did get out of the bunker and 'retired' elsewhere, my question is whether there are credible reports or sightings of him, at his place of residence, etc.? I would think he had various support staff who at one time or another would have spoke up, snapped a photo or two. Thanks.
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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Renewal » 6 years 9 months ago (Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:10 pm)

Some ten or so years ago there was a photo of a man in his seventies. He looked remarkably similar to Hitler, with no facial hair but about the same height and build. Could not find it now, but it must be somewhere on the internet.

Meanwhile, some have suggested that this man kind of looks like him:

hitler.jpg
hitler.jpg (12.9 KiB) Viewed 5713 times


And one more book:
http://www.barilochenazi.com.ar/english/index.html

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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Hohenems » 6 years 9 months ago (Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:17 pm)

It was my understanding that Hitler committed suicide and asked that his and Eva Braun's bodies be cremated to avoid either live capture by the Soviets or having things done to their bodies à la Mussolini and his mistress. I don't frankly see any reason to doubt that storyline. If anything, the report that the remains were definitively destroyed by the KGB in 1970 only corroborates that story.

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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Haldan » 6 years 9 months ago (Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:57 pm)

Many Indonesians believe, or wants to believe, that Hitler decided to settle there, in the city of Surabaya, and that he is buried there too:

http://www.javaisbeautiful.com/our-blog ... abaya.html

I say like Skorzeny: "Everybody wants me" (but in this case everybody seem to want Hitler :lol:)

-haldan
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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Renewal » 6 years 9 months ago (Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:25 pm)

Hohenems wrote:If anything, the report that the remains were definitively destroyed by the KGB in 1970 only corroborates that story.


KGB story is the last one to believe. After double-identifying the body as Hitlers, they still pulled the wrong rabbit out of the hat. Unless Hitler went through plastic surgery by which his head was replaced with that of a woman, the KGB was blowing bubbles.

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Re: Did Hitler commit suicide in the Berlin bunker?

Postby Hohenems » 6 years 9 months ago (Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:46 pm)

Given the provenance of the other skull, it might very well have been Eva Braun's. The study said it was a women younger than 40. Eva Braun died at 33.


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