Mukden Incident

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Depth Charge
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Mukden Incident

Postby Depth Charge » 1 year 11 months ago (Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:37 pm)

What is everyone's opinion on the so-called 'staged' Mukden Incident? As usual with these types of things, Communists and Social Democracies have their version and the nationalist side has theirs.

The Allied camp claims that the Japanese staged the attack as a precursor to greasing the wheels of expansionism. However the Japanese (of the era) were adamant that they were attacked by Chinese dissidents.

I'd like to draw a parallel between Gleiwitz and this. Gleiwitz appears to have been a real raid and attack, then later spun by the Allies of having been a German false flag.

Presently I'm of the opinion that rogue elements probably instigated the incident within the Kwangtung Army, but I think their defence needs to be brought back to the table, that they were attacked.



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Hektor
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Re: Mukden Incident

Postby Hektor » 4 weeks 1 day ago (Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:05 pm)

The mainstream thesis seems to be quite clear putting the blame on the Japanese:
Memories of 1931 Mukden Incident remain divisive
BY JEFF KINGSTON
SPECIAL TO THE JAPAN TIMES

SEP 17, 2016
ARTICLE HISTORY PRINT SHARE
Today marks the 85th anniversary of the 1931 Mukden Incident (also known as the Manchurian Incident), when Japanese troops staged a bombing of their own railway by placing explosives near the train tracks. Even though the explosion did minimal damage and a train managed to pass the damaged section soon thereafter, this “attack” was blamed on the Chinese and used as a pretext to invade and pacify Manchuria. This was the beginning of the Fifteen Year War (1931-45), a Japanese-instigated conflagration that caused widespread regional devastation. China suffered the brunt of that mayhem, which is why this day has become engraved in the collective memory as a trauma inflicted by Japan.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/20 ... -tujpMzbIU


More details:
https://archive.org/details/conspiracya ... osh/page/2

There was an investigation in the incident and it seems they put the blame on the Japanese:
The Commission, in another passage, said;

"The vision of a China unified, strong, and hostile, a nation of four hundred millions, dominant in Manchuria and in Eastern Asia, is disturbing to many Japanese. . . .”

The Japanese claim that on the night of September 18 th, 1931, when they seized Mukden and several other cities, they were attacked by the Chinese and they only acted in self-defence. The Commission, after going over the situation carefully and examining witnesses, gave the following verdict:

The Chinese, in accordance with the instructions referred to on page 187, had no plan of attacking the Japanese troops, or of endangering the lives or property of Japanese nationals at this particular time or place. They made no concerted or authorized attack on the Japanese forces and were surprised by the Japanese attack and subsequent operation . . . the military operations of the Japanese troops during this night, which have been described above, cannot be regarded as measures of legitimate self-defense.

After the Japanese had extended their military operations throughout Manchuria, they created a puppet state called "Manchukuo” and filled the important positions with Japanese.
https://archive.org/details/lyttoncommi ... ho/page/n1


There was no commission to investigate the Gleiwitz incident, all we "know" about a supposed false flag, we know via Naujocks and his testimony in Nuremberg. Notably the British didn't consider him a credible witness.

The German grievances against Poland were stretching far further than just a border incident in Gleiwitz. But this is ignored under the pretext that Gleiwitz was a false flag operation and that "Hitler wanted war".


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