Factual appraisal of German Concentration Camps by the ICRC

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Factual appraisal of German Concentration Camps by the ICRC

Postby Free Minded » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:47 am)

I came across this in my notes from years gone by. Anyone know about it?
A key role to the Jewish question in Europe during World War II was played by the International Committee of the Red Cross, which consisted largely of relativel detached Swiss nationals, although, as might be expected, sentiment became more critical of Germany when the German military defeats continued to mount following Stalingrad. At the 17th International Red Cross Conference at Stockholm in 1947 final arrangements were made for a definitive report to appear the next year:Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War (3 vols. Geneva, 1948). This comprehensive survey both supplemented and incorporated the findings from 2 previous key works: Documents sur l'activite du CICR en faveur des civils detenus dans le camps de concentration en Allemagne, 1939-45 (Geneva, 1946), and Inter Arma Caritas: the work of the ICRC during the Second World War (Geneva 1947)


I thought it might be of interest to you. I do have some more details but not good references - when I took the notes to discuss with others I wasn't as particular as you guys on references.

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Postby Free Minded » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:26 am)

Continuing from my notes:

The team of authors (of the reports), headed by Frederic Siordet, explained in the opening pages of the first of the 1948 volumes that their motto had been strict political neutrality, and service to all. The ICRC was contrasted with the national societies of the Red Cross with their primary aims of aiding their own peoples. The neutrality was seen to be typified by its two principal wartime leaders, Max Huber and Carl J Burckhardt.


It is this claim of complete neutrality that possibly makes these documents so important when one looks at the extermination claims and the reasons for them.

The ICRC considered that its greatest single wartime triumph consisted of the successful application of the 1929 Geneva military convention to obtain access to civilian internees in the various parts of Central and Western Europe. The ICRC, however, was unable to obtain any access to the Soviet Union, which had failed to ratify the 1929 convention. The millions of civilian and military internees in the USSR were cut off from any international contact or supervision whatever. This was especially deplorable, since enough was known to assert that by far the worst conditions for internees of both types existed in the USSR.


The reports show that the USSR is far from satisfactory but does state that this is “known” rather than proved. Nothing I have ever read has refuted this.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:31 am)

recommended:

'[Red Cross] International Tracing Service blocks access to vital records'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=120

'Red Cross Tracing Service'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=747

- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:28 am)

Hilberg even mentions that the Zyklon B was delivered in a Red Cross vehicle to the Auschwitz gas chambers, but then doesn't elaborate on that assertion. See:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1785

Besides that, he barely mentions the Red Cross in his 3 volume book on the holocaust.

Well in case you haven't noticed, if you're against the Jews, then you're maligned as evil, and a certain paranoia is developed about you. So the United Nations is portrayed as such when they pass a resolution asking Israel to pull out of Gaza and the West Bank, or in the 70's, when they asked Israel to withdraw from the Sinai Penninsula. Perhaps a similar villification happened to the International Red Cross.

I remember hearing about Amnesty International all the time in the newspapers in the 1980's. Right around the time I heard they'd criticized Israel, I also noticed that they no longer had much presence in the newspapers. The same thing happened with Nelson Mandela who supported the Palestinians I believe. One used to hear about that guy all the time. In fact the last time I heard about Nelson Mandela that I can remember, is when two Jewish Hollywood actors were making fun of him in the movie "Hot Chick."

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:21 pm)

This is a great Red Cross post:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... b3ce7155db

A big part of the book "Did Six Million Really Die" comes from the Red Cross Reports. And apparently in the Zundel Trial (when this book was under attack) it was shown that these quotes were properly quoted.

The more I think about it, the more I think about how the Red Cross, and particularly the International Red Cross (ICRC), must have been the biggest wrench in the entire holocaust story-works. In other words, the International Red Cross must have gotten in the way with holocaust stories more than any other group. Without the ICRC it was just the word of the Germans against the word of the allies.

How can one make up stories if there is an objective body with free reign to go into the camps?

There is the notion that during the war, the German people had no idea that the killing was going on. Be that as it may, it can't be mixed up with the notion that the American people had no idea that the killing was going on. The "holocaust" was in the American mainstream media broadly by late 1942. To the god-fearing American religious demographic, (a huge demographic) WWII was, in part, a war to save the Jews. The Germans would have saw this and given the Red Cross even more freedom to go where they wanted.

Then there is the notion that the Red Cross was at Auschwitz but they had no idea that the gassings were happening. But this forum has discussed at length how half the holocaust stories started as rumours in the camps. Such as the soap myth. There are stories such as someone goes to Auschwitz and an inmate says that the only way they'll leave is through the chimney. (see note 1 at bottom) Thus with any contact at all with inmates, the Red Cross would have heard these stories, and investigated.

In the report excerpts in the link I put at the top of this post, one can see all the food that the Red Cross distributed to the Jews in the camps. Funny how one never hears about this. Funny how Hilberg barely mentions the Red Cross. Could it be that it is because they presented a barrier in getting extermination lies out there? A minor barrier as it turned out. Here's an organization that actually did something to save Jews, and far more than Wallenberg, or Schindler. But with all the bogus testimony Hilberg uses, (like Yankel Wiernik, Kurt Gerstein and coerced affidavits from Eichmann) he never touches a single Red Cross report in his book, The Destruction of the European Jews, (1985 edition) except one footnote on page 627 involving the uniform of 50 Jewish French prisoners.

Could the Jews have been that thankless to a group, the ICRC, that kept many from starving to death? To answer that, look how thankful they were to Britain for fighting the war for them. Within a year, they were terror-bombing the British in Palestine. Or how about gratitude to America? Existing today is the implication that the US purposely didn't bomb the railway to Auschwitz. Also there is the implication that the US purposely set Mengele free. So regarding not being thankful to the Red Cross: yes it's possible.

Of course this isn't about giving thanks where thanks is due. This is about Jewish Group-Evolutionary-Strategy (as Professor Kevin MacDonald's book Culture of Critique points out.) This strategy involves piling up a heap of guilt on the non-Jew.
----------
NOTES

1.
"'The guards told us that we will only leave Auschwitz through the chimney, ' said Breder,"
Headline story on page 1 of the San Francisco Chronicle a couple weeks ago:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... B16Q91.DTL

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Postby Scott » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:08 pm)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:A big part of the book "Did Six Million Really Die" comes from the Red Cross Reports. And apparently in the Zundel Trial (when this book was under attack) it was shown that these quotes were properly quoted.

Well, I never found the claim that 300 thousand Jews died from all causes during the war to be substantiated in the book by the Red Cross or the publications cited therein.

:D

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:48 pm)

Hey Scott,

I'm glad you caught that. I think there is a problem with that source of information

It originally came from this:

In 1955, another neutral Swiss source, Die Tat of Zurich (January 19th, 1955), in a survey of all Second World War casualties based on figures of the lnternational Red Cross, put the "Loss of victims of persecution because of politics, race or religion who died in prisons and concentration camps between 1939 and 1945" at 300,000, not all of whom were Jews, and this figure seems the most accurate assessment.


From IHR's publication of "Did Six Million Really Die" by Richard Harwood (pseudonym)
http://www.ihr.org/books/harwood/dsmrd08.html

However in the Zundel case, we have this
Biedermann testified that the article from Die Tat of Zurich, January 19, 1955, cited by Harwood at page 30 of the pamphlet did not mention the ICRC as alleged by Harwood. (11-2513)

http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/10biedermann.html

So I can see why you couldn't find it. I'm too confused to know what's what here.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:54 pm)

You may also want to check out:

"JEWISH LIES OF OMISSION. YOU EVER HEARD ABOUT ANY OF THIS?"
by Messenger
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1290&highlight=

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:12 pm)

One thing that makes it so confusing is that while Harwood may have quoted the Red Cross Reports accurately, he apparently didn't accurately portray the 1955 Die Tat of Zurich report accurately. See:

Biedermann testified that the article from Die Tat of Zurich, January 19, 1955, cited by Harwood at page 30 of the pamphlet did not mention the ICRC as alleged by Harwood. (11-2513)

http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/10biedermann.html

Citing the Red Cross Reports accurately and citing a report that mentions the Red Cross accurately are two different things.

All of this points to how important it is to be as honest as you can if you're a revisionist, otherwise you set up problems for revisionists down the road who are trying to figure out your veracity 30 years later.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:38 pm)

But the question remains:

How many Jewish deportees died in the many work camps, ghettos, and during the transportations, especially in Poland and in the Soviet Union?

And how many died in the camps Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor and Chelmno?

To my knowledge, the ICRC did not keep track of these numbers.

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Postby Scott » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:38 pm)

It's not in the Red Cross publications either. The Noontide Press "publisher's foreward to the third edition" of The Myth of the Six-Million (August, 1978) includes a disclaimer, which unfortunately does not appear in the online IHR version:

This Third Edition is re-issued, then, with pride that its influence has been critical in leading the way of scholarship toward the righting of a major distortion of history.

We wish at this time to acknowledge that one of the fruits of this scholarship has been to find fault with the assertion on page 102 that the International Red Cross listed only 300,000 persons as "victims of persecution because of politics, race or religion..." Wherever the anonymous author of this manuscript obtained these figures, they cannot be documented by one academic critic who has tried, without success, to find their source. Therefore, we cannot verify this assertion, but knowing the decided proclivity of the Zionists to falsify history by removing or forging documents we certainly cannot state with finality that the statement is false.

Based on the veracity of the book's thesis, as well as the data presented, we are not inclined to seriously question the statement.


Well, idiotic arguments are not going to help the Revisionist case either.

:D

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Feb 19, 2005 12:55 am)

Nice job Scott!

That sheds light on this whole topic.

I didn't mean to imply before that the author was not honest, the explanation might be just as the introduction you posted said.

What was really said in Die Tat of Zurich on that day would be interesting.

This link points out many good things about this famous book. Along with some Red Cross info:
http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/FaurisArch/RF880412.html

This is interesting because around 30 years ago, there was someone going over this very same issue: his name was Robert Faurisson.

As an important side note, the publisher of this book in France was assassinated for publishing it.

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Postby Scott » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:33 am)

Thanks for the link CCS.

Faurisson testified that Harwood made a mistake once in quoting from the Reports of the International Committee of the Red Cross, out of a total of nineteen quotes from the reports: "I can tell you," he said, "as a professor I am surprised to see that he was able to quote a book nineteen times and only once incorrectly." (29-8082)

http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/FaurisArch/RF880412.html


:D

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:16 am)

Why are Revisionists denied access to the Red Cross archives? What's in those archives which they won't show to us? This question always bothered me.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:26 pm)

I wonder if the IHR archive had this missing document before it was destroyed in an arson fire. The big deal about this ICRC report was in the late '80's and the fire was in the early 80's I believe.

Did that fire burn a revisionist library, or just noontide press with mail order books for sale, or both?


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