Holocaust didn't happen. But what did happen?

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

I mean how did the lie come about?

•We know that rumours in the camps came to be believed as true.

•We know that Irgun operatives put forth a lot of the story before it ever supposedly happened (Ben Hecht in Reader's Digest Feb 1943, and his connection to Hillel Kook who was connected to Vladimir Jabotinsky, the Irgun Zvai Lumi founder (I think)

•We know of reports coming to Stephen Wise in November 1942 from a Jewish Council in Switzerland and the spurious history of the source of that information.

•We know that the shock of US and British troops seeing people dead from typhus and starving in the camps made them maybe more gullable to believe the inmate stories, which were set up to exact revenge on the camp administrators and guards.

•We know that some Zionists (Jabotinsky) wanted a story to scare Jews into moving to Israel.
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Did the holocaust story have more to do with a zionist angle or was it more of a "revenge on the Nazis" angle?

How could Britain and America have fallen for it so equally? Especially considering that Britain had a lot to lose from the zionist campaign.

[Hannover]

The lies came about as a means to hide Allied atrocities:
intentional bombing of German civilians, mass murders by Allied field troops, heinous mass mutilations by the largely judeo-supremacist Bolsheviks/communists, the dismemberment of Germany, the seizure of her assets and patents, the mass rapes, slave labor made of Germans, it detracts from the concentration camps administered by the US & Soviets, etc.

It served/serves as a pretense for "that shitty little country of Israel" and their genocidal, racist policies against the indigenous Palestinians.

It served/serves as a pretense for massive cash payments to 'Israel' and so called 'survivors'. Remember it's called the 'holocau$t' Industry for good reason.

It serves the purpose of destroying any sense of community or ethnic pride among those of true European Christian extraction.

Many people have made careers out of the scam, governments are on record as 'believing' & supporting the lies and erecting false temples to the new bizarro superstitious dogma. Liars must continue to lie to support their previous lies. When lies lose their effectiveness they simply arrest and imprison all the non-Believers, all those who do not enagage in proper 'thoughts'.

It's not that difficult, simply ask, who benefits?

All of this and the fact that informed Revisionists can refute any of their absurd assertions with ease. They rarely debate us on a level playing field, and when they do ... well, the results are at this forum.

- Hannover

[Richard Perle]

Can you point me towards more info on allied atrocities? (especially British/American - that the Russians murdered friend and foe alike is widely known) I am specifically interested in massacres and direct murders rather than crimes of neglect. I know about the bombings and Dachau shootings, I'm more interested in the kind of crimes that are usually associated with Germans.

[Bergmann]

Did the holocaust story have more to do with a zionist angle or was it more of a "revenge on the Nazis" angle?
How could Britain and America have fallen for it so equally? Especially considering that Britain had a lot to lose from the zionist campaign.

The Holocaust story, i.e. the story about the alleged systematic killing of 6 million Jews mostly in gas chambers, is a post war creation based on horror propaganda during the war. Jews were as part of the ethnic cleansing program of the Nazis deported to ghettos and work camps mostly to the European east, and many of them perished.

The Holocaust story served the Allies to blame it all (the war and atrocities) on the Germans (the Huns), why on earth should they not “fall” for it?
And the Zionist Jews like to perpetuate the Holocaust story for monetary reasons and to cover upt their own crimes in Palestine.

[Trojan]

The lies came about as a means to hide Allied atrocities:
intentional bombing of German civilians

- Hannover

I beleive the first instance of terror bombing was the Luftwaffe attacks on Warsaw in September 1939.

[Hannover]

Trojan said:

I beleive the first instance of terror bombing was the Luftwaffe attacks on Warsaw in September 1939.

Au contraire. 'Believing' and knowing are two different things.

IN fact the bombardment of Warsaw did not begin until September 26, 1939, after all the military niceties had been observed: warning leaflets dropped on to the civilian population, open routes provided for the Polish civilians to leave before the timed hour of bombardment, a formal ultimatum to the commandant of the fortress Warsaw to capitulate before the bombardment began, which was rejected.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/Churchill/ ... plies.html

- Hannover

[mugwort]

Can you point me towards more info on allied atrocities? (especially British/American - that the Russians murdered friend and foe alike is widely known) I am specifically interested in massacres and direct murders rather than crimes of neglect. I know about the bombings and Dachau shootings, I'm more interested in the kind of crimes that are usually associated with Germans.

Funny you should ask. I'm just reading a great book on the crimes of the "Good Guys" (Los Crimenes de los "Buenos", by Joaquin Bochaca, which is on the AAARGH site, in Spanish. It's a really excellent 300-page book, and tells you just about all you'd want to know on that subject, except that it was written in 1982, so, for example, James Bacque's research hadn't yet been done, and therefore Bochaco's not aware of the magnitude of the postwar starvation of the poopulation which added so much to the German body count.

But for example, in his chapter on Patton, he names his actual killer, who confessed proudly to it in a speech to some group.

Bochaco also has a trenchant wit, and pulls no punches--for example, talking about Pearl Harbour, he calls FDR's final maneuverings to make sure the Japanese didn't get cold feet--such as American ships dropping depth charges on Japanese ships in the war-zone of the China Sea--he writes"El refinamiento de las provocaciones americanas contra el Japón llegó al verdadero paroxismo." ("The American provokations against Japan culminated in a virtual paroxysm of refinement.)

My Spanish reading comprehension has gotten pretty good, so I've started translating bits of it and posting them on Librerty Forum; I'll post a translation of the chapter called "Patton y Morgan" here on this site, which makes clear the impossibility of even powerful men's kicking against the pricks in Post-War Morgenthauish Germany.

If anyone interested in this subject reads Spanish, I suggest you take a jaunt over to AAARGH and start reading Los Crimenes--it's fascinating.

[Bergmann]

I beleive the first instance of terror bombing was the Luftwaffe attacks on Warsaw in September 1939.

Yes. But it should be considered that at the time of the German air attack on Warsaw the city was defended by the Polish army, it was declared a fortress and did not want to surrender.

At least that is what I read about it.

[mugwort]

Did the holocaust story have more to do with a zionist angle or was it more of a "revenge on the Nazis" angle?

Although it is not spoken of as much: in addition to the potential material rewards and the political necessity of distracting from Allied crimes and justifying the war, there was, of course, an element of Judaic Old-Testament-style revenge in the perpetration of the massive and very effective con.

Joaquin Bochaco, in Los Crimenes de los "Buenos" quotes a jewish Allied soldier who says that he couldn't have asked for a better job than the one he got--laying waste to Europe (he said"Europe--not Germany), and finally getting revenge.

I'm sure that, while the architects of the giant scam were possibly stone-cold as they designed it--and perhaps not--many, many participants in the scam, at all levels from forgers of documents to bearers of false witness to hang innocent Germans, were motivated at least partly by revenge.

----------------------------------------

I mean how did the lie come about?

•We know that rumours in the camps came to be believed as true.

•We know that Irgun operatives put forth a lot of the story before it ever supposedly happened (Ben Hecht in Reader's Digest Feb 1943, and his connection to Hillel Kook who was connected to Vladimir Jabotinsky, the Irgun Zvai Lumi founder (I think)

•We know of reports coming to Stephen Wise in November 1942 from a Jewish Council in Switzerland and the spurious history of the source of that information.

•We know that the shock of US and British troops seeing people dead from typhus and starving in the camps made them maybe more gullable to believe the inmate stories, which were set up to exact revenge on the camp administrators and guards.

•We know that some Zionists (Jabotinsky) wanted a story to scare Jews into moving to Israel.
------------
Did the holocaust story have more to do with a zionist angle or was it more of a "revenge on the Nazis" angle?

How could Britain and America have fallen for it so equally? Especially considering that Britain had a lot to lose from the zionist campaign.

[Trojan]

and why did my rebuttal to Hannover's post not appear?

free debate indeed

[Moderator]

It wasn't a rebuttal, your response was unrelated. You ignored the specific points made.
M1

[Juan]

Again, wouldn't be better to actually keep Trojan's post, (with a comment from the mod at the bottom if you like) for the sake of fairness? I've seen lots of pro-rev posts, some mine included, that keep going off-topic, pointless divagations, subjetive comments, etc etc etc. These don't get deleted, but sometimes the mods drop a warning.

This would make the forum looking more fair, specially to newcomers.

[Moderator]

Juan,
We understand your point, but we cannot allow a thread to get sidetracked with junk posts. We do allow some drift, but try to keep it limited and will eventually step in. There are certain registrants here who have a history of such posts, from both sides of the aisle, hence we're quicker to pull their junk.
Perhaps it was not Trojan's intent, but it's a typical tactic used by anti-revisionists to confuse the reader and distract the thread. We've seen it all too often through the many years of forums: CODOH, Air-Photo, etc. Just look at altrevisionism for example, it's a complete mess. We insist on civility with clearly designated guidelines, not difficult to follow. To allow every junk post to remain is to allow the author of such post to have his way.
As a sign that we do not avoid any on topic opinions, recall our thread that asked if there was any related topic that we have not allowed discussion on; there were/are none, see:

'Are there points that have been missed or censored?'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1202

Simply look at the opposing viewpoints in various threads by the likes of the Holocaust History Project's Andrew Mathis, and others like Hebden, Cortavagatas, elvistheelf, comrade seinfeld, agnostic, David, on & on. All their on topic posts are here to view on any related topic they wished to post to.

We have guidelines for a reason and they will remain. We're the best game in town and the playing field is level for a change. Our detractors don't like it and will yell foul, and that takes 'chutzpah'. Thanks.

Moderator #1

[kk]

We're the best game in town and the playing field is level for a change.

Coming from a black sheep, a comment of praise:

You are absolutely right M1!

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

In my original post I was more asking how the lie came about and how it was implemented. But people posted more on "why it was implemented" which is interesting as well. I especially like Hannover's mentioning the idea of covering up allied war crimes.

Another reason why: Because the Nazi ideology needed to be defeated. A military defeat doesn't destroy the ideology. Libeling the ideology, or maligning the ideology works. Defeating it militarily can almost create sympathy for it. This is not a forum to discuss Nazi ideology. Nor am I making any statement about the pros and cons of it. But the holocaust myth was created to stamp it out, and to even prevent later ideologies that even remotely resembled it.

When Napoleon was defeated, all kinds of revolutions happened in subsequent years, because the ideology had caught on in the areas Napoleon had occupied.